Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive


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wjnfirearms
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Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby wjnfirearms » Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:17 am



I don't wish to start a discussion over any pros & cons of ethanol, but this is info everyone that owns anything with a gas engine must understand. I do not have any financial interest in this product, so this is not a commercial.

Lucas Oil, in addition to their good product line, has come out with a fuel additive to help counteract the damaging effects of ethanol in the gas we buy. It has been proven that the E-10 we have to buy is slowly damaging everything fueled by gasoline, including our motorcycles, and with the possible increase to E-15 and even E-20, the effects will be even worse. Aside from corroding fuel systems, it is causing long term issues with the valve trains. This product helps counteract the effects and also does a remarkable job of reversing the damage to the valves. I've seen proof of the benefit of using a product like this aside from their advertisements. I manage an auto parts store and this stuff is increasing in sales, especially for smaller engines like boat motors, lawn & garden equipment and motorcycles as people learn about this type of product. I prefer the Lucas as I already trust and use their other products. Trial and error has taught me that Lucas makes products that actually work.

Older engines suffer more than newer ones, so anyone like me with a vintage Wing should pay particular attention to this issue. Yes, this is going to slightly increase your total fueling costs, but the trade off with increased service life is a pretty good deal in my opinion.


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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:16 am

What does it purport to do, and how does it do it? Does it keep the ethanol in suspension, preventing separation?

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby themainviking » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:08 pm

It appears to be a stabilizer, and Sta-Bil, which is a stabilizer, says pretty much the same things about its product as Lucas says about Safeguard. Stabilizing fuels with Ethanol is supposed to prevent the Ethanol from seperating, and therefore prevent the harmful effects.

Actually called Safeguard, here is what Lucas has to say about it:

Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers

Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers was developed to specifically address issues associated with using ethanol based fuels. This applies to E-10, E-15, E-85, pure ethanol and any mixtures in between including gasoline. Our Product is completely soluble in all ethanol fuels and will not harm filters. Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers contains effective additives to prevent rust and corrosion associated with the use of ethanol fuels.

Safeguard™ Key Benefits:

• Cleans injectors, valve seats, combustion chambers and other critical fuel components

• Stabilizes fuel and prevents varnish & gum formation in ethanol and gasoline

• Combats deposits and protects your engine oil lubricants from the harmful effects of alcohol combustion

Safeguard™ treats up to 80 gallons(302.8) of ethanol fuel. One ounce treats five gallons of ethanol fuel. Our new 5.25 oz bottle treats up to 25 gallons (94.6 liters) of ethanol fuel. Recommended for use in automobile and marine applications.
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby SteveB123 » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:08 pm

What "long term issues with valve trains" have you noticed?
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:18 am

SteveB123 wrote:What "long term issues with valve trains" have you noticed?


I've read that ethanol in fuels is responsible for increased cylinder and valvetrain wear.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby wjnfirearms » Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:42 am

This is quite true, gents. The initial negative things found about ethanol use were mainly premature wear to non metal fuel system components. Now, it's being well proven that the damage to valve train components is quite real.

It seems that smaller engines are being tortured worse than automotive ones, though all are suffering long term detriment. The plastic fuel lines on garden equipment like tillers, chain saws, leaf blowers etc., are being ruined at an alarming rate and rather quickly. Carbs are suffering. I had to have my two year old Husky chain saw serviced and the carb torn down and cleaned. Why? The gas. Boats and motorcycle engines are seeing the problems badly. I sell quite a bit of the Lucas to boat owners.
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:19 pm

I had an older two-cycle engined weed trimmer get harder and harder to start. I tried everything I could think of to get it running right, I finally gave in and took it to a small engine guy locally. He basically said that ethanol had destroyed some rubber and plastic parts in the carb/fuel system, and that it would cost more to replace them and get it running again than it would to buy a new trimmer. So I junked it and bought a new one. Now that new one is four years old, and starting to do the same thing. Grrrr.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby SteveB123 » Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:47 pm

wjnfirearms wrote: Now, it's being well proven that the damage to valve train components is quite real.


Please post a few credible links to studies, if you could.

thanks!
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:14 pm

SteveB123 wrote:
wjnfirearms wrote: Now, it's being well proven that the damage to valve train components is quite real.


Please post a few credible links to studies, if you could.

thanks!


Here's a study I found in about 30 seconds of searching on Google:

http://www.crcao.org/reports/recentstud ... .12.30.pdf

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby Jenkinsrawhide » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:53 pm

Lucas does put out good products however instead of having to buy it all the time for my Goldwing tight wad me finally gave in and started burning the pure 87 octane straight gas. There are several outlets here in Tennessee but I have found that the Farmers Co Ops all carry the straight gas.
An outboard motor mechanic who has torn down his share of motors told me that the ethanol will eventually pit your pistons among other things. I can buy cheaper ethanol gas here ranging from $3.10 up or the real thing from Co Op for $3.29 so with my six gallon tank I am only talking about an increase of $1.14 (29-10 cents) and not have to worry.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby SteveB123 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:31 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
SteveB123 wrote:
wjnfirearms wrote: Now, it's being well proven that the damage to valve train components is quite real.


Please post a few credible links to studies, if you could.

thanks!


Here's a study I found in about 30 seconds of searching on Google:

http://www.crcao.org/reports/recentstud ... .12.30.pdf


Valve train components not tested, only wetted parts in that E20 study.

"Various level senders from eight different vehicle designs were
tested; several were clearly affected by the E20A test fuel, and more testing is needed to fully characterize
the effect."

That's as stern as it got, from all the equipment tested. All the other equipment tested had no discernable effect from the E20.
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby Bobog » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:08 pm

I have read and heard enough horror stories about the corrosive effects of ethanol to believe there is at least some basis in fact, although I am wrong about stuff pretty regularly. For those systems not specifically designed for it (like my 'Wing, lawn mower, snow blower, weed wacker, et al) I have switched to premium fuel. Premium here does not contain any ethanol while regular "may contain up to 10% ethanol". Frankly, I'd be surprised if it did because here in Alberta, oil from under the ground is cheaper than oil grown above ground. And yes, I still use a fuel stabilizer in the off season.
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby Possum51 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:09 pm

A little test my brother did (indy shop owner told him to try this), took E10 and filled a mason jar(with a lid on it). Let that sit on his work bench for 3 days, it turned into a mason jar that looked like it had nasty muddy water in it. Now think if you let you bike sit for a week or so with 5 gls of that in the tank. So if I can't find 100% gas, then for me its 93 oct and stabil.
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby mnet7291 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:18 am

Well this is my first post, I am new to the Goldwing world but loving it so far. I work at a small airport and am able to get aviation fuel (100LL)I use it in my mower an weed whacker its great, no ethanol but it does have lead, which is good for the valves, an after sitting all winter it starts on first pull. Most people can get this at smaller airports, an at only $6.35 a gallon(not bad now a days). I have not tried it in my wing yet(1990)but may after I get more use to it, an just another side note its great for cleaning parts.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:37 am

mnet7291 wrote: I work at a small airport and am able to get aviation fuel (100LL)I use it in my mower an weed whacker its great, no ethanol but it does have lead, which is good for the valves, .


Why is it "good for the valves"?
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby suvcw04 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:33 pm

I live in Iowa, the home of ethanol. For a couple of years, I worked at a company builds and services gas stations. I used to use E10 fuel. I DO NOT use it in anything anymore. In the time I worked at the petroleum parts company, I saw many hoses, pumps and nozzles. That stuff will eventually eat anything it touches. E15 and E20 are going to make billions of dollars for repair people and the car companies.

Luckily, almost every gas station in Iowa still has straight gas. Go figure. I hate to travel outside the state and have to put a legal corrosive in my bike or car.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:59 pm

suvcw04 wrote:I live in Iowa, the home of ethanol. For a couple of years, I worked at a company builds and services gas stations. I used to use E10 fuel. I DO NOT use it in anything anymore. In the time I worked at the petroleum parts company, I saw many hoses, pumps and nozzles. That stuff will eventually eat anything it touches. E15 and E20 are going to make billions of dollars for repair people and the car companies.


I've worked for one for the past 11 years. I've yet to see any catastrophic corrosion caused by ethanol, only occasional phase separation in tank systems with very low turnover. Somehow, Brazil has used E20+ since the late '70s, without their civilization grinding to a halt.

Who sells E15 and E20 in the US?
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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby mnet7291 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:05 pm

SteveB123 wrote:
mnet7291 wrote: I work at a small airport and am able to get aviation fuel (100LL)I use it in my mower an weed whacker its great, no ethanol but it does have lead, which is good for the valves, .


Why is it "good for the valves"?

Before the hardens seats that most engines have today it was used a a lubricant to keep everything working smoothly and is still used in small airplanes.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby suvcw04 » Sun Sep 08, 2013 7:43 pm

SteveB123 wrote:
suvcw04 wrote:I live in Iowa, the home of ethanol. For a couple of years, I worked at a company builds and services gas stations. I used to use E10 fuel. I DO NOT use it in anything anymore. In the time I worked at the petroleum parts company, I saw many hoses, pumps and nozzles. That stuff will eventually eat anything it touches. E15 and E20 are going to make billions of dollars for repair people and the car companies.


I've worked for one for the past 11 years. I've yet to see any catastrophic corrosion caused by ethanol, only occasional phase separation in tank systems with very low turnover. Somehow, Brazil has used E20+ since the late '70s, without their civilization grinding to a halt.

Who sells E15 and E20 in the US?


I guess that's why the makers of lawn mowers, chain saw, outboards, weed eaters and other small engine machines tell you not to put E10 in them. And E15, if it becomes available, will be recommended for 2005 and newer cars only. NOT recommended for motorcycles, ONLY for cars.

Ask your Honda dealer what will happen to your warranty if you put E15 in your brand new Gold Wing.

No one sells E15 or E20 in the US. I said "are going to make billions", as in future tense.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby golden highway » Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:51 pm

If the government is going to all the trouble to get everyone to use E10 and E15 it must be OK. Why would our government say it is OK if it wasn't? They only have your best in mind. if the the government says to drink a glass of E15 everyday because it is good for you, I will be the first in line. :D

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby seabeechief » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:42 pm

golden highway wrote:If the government is going to all the trouble to get everyone to use E10 and E15 it must be OK. Why would our government say it is OK if it wasn't? They only have your best in mind. if the the government says to drink a glass of E15 everyday because it is good for you, I will be the first in line. :D


Lordy, hoss, I hope you are kidding! Please tell me you are jerking my chain! Please!

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby Davids84gl1200 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:19 am

I definitely need to try something.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby golden highway » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:38 pm

seabeechief wrote:
golden highway wrote:If the government is going to all the trouble to get everyone to use E10 and E15 it must be OK. Why would our government say it is OK if it wasn't? They only have your best in mind. if the the government says to drink a glass of E15 everyday because it is good for you, I will be the first in line. :D


Lordy, hoss, I hope you are kidding! Please tell me you are jerking my chain! Please!

Chief

I am sorry MY government :mrgreen: not your government. On earth your governments are run by the rich and would do anything for more money in their pockets.

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Re: Lucas Ethanol Fuel Additive

Postby seabeechief » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:11 pm

golden highway wrote:
seabeechief wrote:
golden highway wrote:If the government is going to all the trouble to get everyone to use E10 and E15 it must be OK. Why would our government say it is OK if it wasn't? They only have your best in mind. if the the government says to drink a glass of E15 everyday because it is good for you, I will be the first in line. :D


Lordy, hoss, I hope you are kidding! Please tell me you are jerking my chain! Please!

Chief

I am sorry MY government :mrgreen: not your government. On earth your governments are run by the rich and would do anything for more money in their pockets.


Well, you are right about my governments being run by the rich. We have the best government money can buy. And, one of us may be spending too much time with the mother ship. I'm just sayin'.

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