I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine


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fastf
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I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 9:35 am



I sit sometimes and think I wonder if Honda ever played around with duel overhead cam heads on the Goldwing and a HEMI design.They have always been on the cutting edge of things.I know weight and size is a factor but technology is always changing and the design they have is started to look dated.I see there is some talk about a Hybrid bike any how you whiz guys maybe you can have a open mind and this could get the dead brain cells to come alive.Also Honda has deep pockets as far as R&D so just run this through your mind.



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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:41 am

Hemispherical combustion chambers aren't exactly cutting edge.....they've been around for 60 years.
The fours look pretty darn close to hemispherical to me, so I think they're been there, and done that.
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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:40 pm

A Hemi type head is when the spark plug is dead center in between the valves not over to the side and yes it isn't nothing new but they can up the horse power and with a Hemi type head you would most likely have a higher compression and with dual overhead cam on each head go to three to four valves per cylinder this isn't new neather Suzuki came out with TSC Twin swirl combustiom back in the late seventys and that wasn't new technology then.What I am writing is could it be done and implemented with the existing engines and technology without much machining .I know some of you people if it ain't broke don't fix it .But wonder if they could come back with the Valkrie or a higher output engine on the Goldwing that would be a option for buyers.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Using your definition, the new "hemi" isn't a hemi. They don't have a spark plug in the centre.


Hemi doesn't stand for "spark plug in the centre", it stands for hemispherical. It's just a shape. It doesn't control compression ratio.
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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:48 pm

I know what it means but I have also got you thinking as far as Honda they most likely expermented with this idea.As far as engines one of Hondas cars is using a boxer engine with Subaru engine I saw a writing about it somewhere .As far as the boxer engine that is one of the most tried and true engines out there and why not make something different as far as heads and such like I have said the engines are starting to look dated.Harley got Porshe to design the Vrod engine and it is overhead cam and water cooled old tech being used on todays bikes and in a few years the tech that comes out on the market will be old just look at the hybrid they are talking and sooner or later might be a total electric bike that is why I wrote this little article and I thank you for comming back to me on it.So wonder if there is a way to make a good thing better?

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby cbx4evr » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:24 pm

I don't know much about head technology but my CBX had DOHC and a center spark plug.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:44 pm

Thats a HEMI Head and thats what i am talking about.Why not put that on a Goldwings.I read just a few minutes ago that the HEMI head engine goes back over a hundred years and some of the engines that say that they are aren't true HEMI engines today.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:55 pm

fastf wrote:Thats a HEMI Head and thats what i am talking about.Why not put that on a Goldwings.I read just a few minutes ago that the HEMI head engine goes back over a hundred years and some of the engines that say that they are aren't true HEMI engines today.


That head represents the pinacle of technology...in 1980.
Why go backwards?

What is your personal definition of hemispherical? Is is something different than a "half a sphere" cylinder head chamber?
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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:00 pm

That design is still being used today and it ain't backwards if it works?

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:13 pm

fastf wrote:I know what it means but I have also got you thinking as far as Honda they most likely expermented with this idea.As far as engines one of Hondas cars is using a boxer engine with Subaru engine I saw a writing about it somewhere .As far as the boxer engine that is one of the most tried and true engines out there and why not make something different as far as heads and such like I have said the engines are starting to look dated.Harley got Porshe to design the Vrod engine and it is overhead cam and water cooled old tech being used on todays bikes and in a few years the tech that comes out on the market will be old just look at the hybrid they are talking and sooner or later might be a total electric bike that is why I wrote this little article and I thank you for comming back to me on it.So wonder if there is a way to make a good thing better?


100% electric motorcycles have been around for a while. I saw the Zero at the local bike show a couple of years ago:

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:28 pm

How about a total electric Goldwing and everyone is going eco friendly the sky is the limit.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:35 pm

fastf wrote:How about a total electric Goldwing and everyone is going eco friendly the sky is the limit.


Battery technology isn't quite there yet. The Zero bike is quite light, and has a range of only about 75 miles before it needs recharging. A much heavier Goldwing will need a lot more batteries, and still won't have that much more range.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:39 pm

Hey SteveB your bike is 1980s tech why go back to that?I have a 1985 1200 LTD and honda didn't go back but to a six cylinder engine and dropped the fuel injection until the 1800 came out as old as it is I believe it will give a 1500 a hard time with it's 1980s technology some of the stuff on yours and my bikes are still being used on the new bikes today.The new Gokdwings today is a two wheeled car and a electronic nightmare when the bike gets older just wait and see.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby riffraff » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:32 am

A true HEMI would also have domed pistons to take advantage of the head design. :ugeek:

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby detdrbuzzard » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:28 am

seeing that the goldwing is hondas top of the line bike i have always wondered why it didn't have four valve heads and dual over head cams
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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby SteveB123 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:31 am

detdrbuzzard wrote:seeing that the goldwing is hondas top of the line bike i have always wondered why it didn't have four valve heads and dual over head cams


Because the heads become huge and heavy.
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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby pudd750 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:47 am

id say Honda knows GL bikes have always been aimed at, and the bike of choice for mom and pop types, that do not care about outright engine breathing, as in more than 2 valves per cylinder- coincidentally, i was, during a ride yesterday, marvelling at the micro sized tappet covers on such a behemoth lump of a motor-
makers (Honda and Suzuki et al?) have been guilty of the dreaded despised pickle fork rockers (get em both right or else) hopefully they dont like designing motors with them anymore-

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:59 pm

I agree weight is going to be a problem but alot of the stuff they are putting on autos can shave alot of weight off the wing. There is rumor honda is comming out with engine a 2.0 or bigger. Take a look at 2012 Goldwing and look at the earlier Goldwing.Honda has shaved the trunk and saddle bags.Honda went to aluminum swing arm and it's a mono shock to cut down weight try changing out the tire on the back of a 1200 compared to a 1800 the 1200 is a pain.Thanks for being interested in my little write up because I know you are wondering if What if they done this or that or changed this to make it better or perform better .SteveB thanks a bunch for your info too .May God Bless all you guys.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:36 pm

I think it would be FAR more efficient to add some sort of forced induction rather than add yet even more weight by increasing displacement yet again. Forced induction, even just a simple roots-type supercharger, would eliminate the problem of valve area and flow, and with the existing fuel injection, it could easily be tuned to take advantage of it. The engine displacement could even be REDUCED, with attendant improvement in fuel economy and overall weight, yet increase power output.

That would be MY direction, if I were Honda boss. :)

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby feetup » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:56 pm

I think pud750 is on the right track. One has to look at what the goldwing is intended to do. Why would you need better breathing on the engine. It is already the quickest bike in it's class.
To have the engine you are thinking of it would have to have double overhead cams with shim adjustable valves. The valve covers are already too wide, add shim pots and cams to that width on either side???? The designers have tried to make a boxer engine as narrow as possible, and as simple and trouble free as possible. 2 valves per works because the red line is quite low so heavy valve gear is not an issue. A single cam nested between the valves with rockers is the lowest height valve gear except perhaps flat head and that isn't going to cut it
If they really wanted to have the highest tech engine why not shoot for desmodromic valve gear and 7,000 mile service intervals? See my point?

A true Hemi is forced to run 2 valves per cylinder, at a fairly wide angle in order to have room for the spark plug. It worked on the straight six Jaguars and double cam Ferrari because they could run rather high compression ratios without detonation, and it worked on the old 426 Chrysler in competition form because they supercharged the daylights out of it.
On competition two strokes they run a squish band around the outside of the hemi to promote turbulence but there is no room for that and valves.
In all honesty I think for a naturally aspirated engine the hemi head is not the latest in design, it is more of an advertising hype based on the mystic powers of an old push rod truck engine that the drag race boys loved because it didn't detonate or pre-ignite and it was built like a truck. The new Dodge "Hemi" isn't even a hemi, it is just smoke and mirrors by the marketers trying to catch some nostalgia and a few oohs from an ill informed market.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:26 pm

There is a person on youtube that has a supercharged 1800 .Maybe bring back the Valkrie you don't have all the stuff hanging off of it like the regular Goldwing take a good look at the junk that is on the New Goldwing for instance GPS,AIrbag ,ABS and the list goes on and on and if it works on the Valkrie slowly put on the main bike.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:45 pm

I remember General Motors built a Plastic or composit engine and it ran and the weight was a much lighter.Replaceable cylinders and such on engines today there is so much plastic compared to 40 years ago if you don't believe me raise the hood on a 2012 Mustang and 1965 model big difference.

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby detdrbuzzard » Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:35 pm

SteveB123 wrote:
detdrbuzzard wrote:seeing that the goldwing is hondas top of the line bike i have always wondered why it didn't have four valve heads and dual over head cams


Because the heads become huge and heavy.

your 1100 weighs in around 700lbs amd my 1200 about 720lbs my 1500 around 800lbs huge and heavy the bike already is
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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby pudd750 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:16 am

wonder how long itll take for me to post something in the incorrect place, but speaking of performance , here goes- one impromptu ride i invited myself on, because i could, the promise was, a big bonfire on a Lake Huron beach-and seafood- i had no choice in the matter- 6-7 bikes ahead of me riding on the back tire, stoppies, (id never witnessed stoppies) - and a 289 hi-po Bullet Mustang replica bringing up the rear - if he had a bike, he wanted to take the Mustang that weekend - after a corner, he wanted to put the Mustang in front of me, so it was on -(just for fun) - i watched the tach to keep it waaaay out of the red and he/it didnt pass me ! i was amazed ! Maybe by the numbers i shouldnt have been amazed

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Re: I wonder if Honda ever done this with a Goldwing Engine

Postby fastf » Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:51 am

Let me throw this at you guys. If and when Honda comes out with the so called Hybrid they are going to have keep the weight down because right now batteries are going to put a hurting on the weight.Also will the engine be a six or four cylinder and until the price of batteries do a drastic dive in price they are going to be expensive to replace after the warranty runs out I promise Hondas R&D have done alot of thinking of what do as far as what I have mentioned.Thanks guys for the advise maybe some of your imput someone from Honda could answer.Once again thanks and may God Bless.




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