police .modulator


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squirrel
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police .modulator

Postby squirrel » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:07 pm



so.i've had the modulator on the bike for 2 weeks got pulled over today by police who questioned why i had flashing lights showing to the front of my bike i explained that they modulate not flash .i had all the info about them but all they were interested in was licence /insurance e.t.c. i questioned how far away they were when they first saw me but got no answer upshot is i can pay a fine or fight it in court so it looks like im off to court (should be fun) any advice would be great thanks



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Possum51
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Re: police .modulator

Postby Possum51 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:27 pm

Sounds like just a hard headed "officer" to me and I'd go to court with it for sure. In the "owners manual" section here there is info on it if you don't have it. They are legal in all 50 states. Good Luck ! http://goldwingdocs.com/Docs/Motorcycle ... -66010.pdf
Rick.....

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Re: police .modulator

Postby thrasherg » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:49 pm

Possum, he is located in England (UK) so the 50 state legal argument has no validity for him. Fingers crossed they are legal in the UK and he can prove it..

Gary

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squirrel
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Re: police .modulator

Postby squirrel » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:24 pm

sorry should have mentioned that im in uk and ovet here modulators are illegal .as far as i know this has not been tested in court.

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Re: police .modulator

Postby tfdeputydawg » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Found on another forum:
Hi, I thought I'd post a copy of my email correspondence with VSED about a year ago regarding the legality of Headlight Modulators in the UK.

to "vsed@dft.gsi.gov.uk" <vsed@dft.gsi.gov.uk>
date 20 October 2008 21:09

subject Motorcycle Headlight Modulators

Dear Sirs,

I hope I have found the right department, but can you advise whether the use of Motorcycle Headlight Modulators is legal in the UK.

I have trawled the web to no avail, everything is about the USA and Canada laws, where they are legal providing they comply to strict standards such as modulation speed, depth of modulation etc.

The general opinion is that they make a motorcycle much more visible during daylight hours (They should not be used at night and have a photocell fitted to prevent this). As a keen motorcyclist for 35 years, I can state through experience that this can only be a good thing from a safety point of view. I have had several near misses over the years, where a car pulls out of a junction and the general excuse is "Sorry Mate, didn't see you" and this is in spite of always riding with headlight on.

Here is a link to an abridged version of the US Federal Law: http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle- ... r-regs.htm

I am planning to manufacture and market these units in the UK based on the US specifications, but it would obviously be a mistake if they are currently illegal, were to be declared illegal at a future date, or there are already different UK specifications for such units.

I hope you can cast some light on the matter for me and look forward to hearing from you soon.

Many thanks


Reply


VSED to me
show details 05/11/2008

Dear Mr Hayes

Headlamp modulation is not permitted on motorcycles in the UK.
The motorcycle industry are running a number of studies into alternative, non-flashing, lighting concepts that may enhance the visibility of a motorcyclist and we will consider the results of these studies as they become available.

Yours sincerely

Jillian Smith
DfT - Transport Technology Standards





Note the use of the words, "Not Permitted" as opposed to "Illegal". There is no mention of any specific law. The words "non-flashing" indicates they have a lack of understanding as to what a Headlamp Modulator actually is. (Headlight Modulators do not flash, but vary the intensity of a headlight).

It is my opinion that there is no specific law in the UK that actually covers the use of Headlight Modulators as they are a relatively new invention. What would the police actually charge you with?

I have ridden in the UK, Spain, Portugal, Italy & Greece using a Headlight Modulator without any problems from the authorities so far. What I can definately say is that a Headlight Modulator gets you noticed by the guy who was just about to pull out in front of you.

I must finish by stating I have a vested interest as I manufacture Headlight Modulators, but the reason I do is because I believe they make a hell of a difference to being seen.

John Hayes - www.smidsy.biz

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Possum51
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Re: police .modulator

Postby Possum51 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:54 pm

squirrel wrote:sorry should have mentioned that im in uk and ovet here modulators are illegal .as far as i know this has not been tested in court.

Sorry, I should have read a little closer to where you're located...I hope it works out in your favor !!
Rick.....

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Re: police .modulator

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:57 am

I always get a kick out of someone else making a mistake Possum51.... :lol: :lol: I think Not permitted means....don't use them... :shock: In a Layman Beaver Book... :shock:

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Re: police .modulator

Postby dingdong » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:54 am

Somehow I don't think the argument about flashing vs modulating will fly in court. Could be a great test case though. Please keep us informed if you go to court.
Tom

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Re: police .modulator

Postby redial » Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:40 am

Modulators are legal in Oz, according to the Australian Design Rules (ADR). I have also read somewhere that they are legal in a number of other places in Europe as well as North America. This may assist you in establishing that there is an international move towards this type of device, and that the UK just needs to get into step; (or something less aggressive).
Len in Kapunda

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Re: police .modulator

Postby Pam » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:15 pm

Go to the dictionary and get a definition of flash and then a definition of modulate, then take your equipment description with you to court. It will all boil down to definitions.

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Re: police .modulator

Postby seeberluca » Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:11 am

Here in Europe most of the times the main problem is that you can not do modifications on your Bike/car without any approval from the State Department. For example: you can not mount the xeno light kit on a car without the approval even if you are using OEM parts.
So, even if the modulators are legal ( but I don't know if they are) it is illegal mout them without the approval from the State Department. The right way is mount the accessories and before using them going to the TUV or similar and asking for the approval. If you get it there is no need to have a law who says it is legal.
The TUV tech will test the accessories and verify how they work and most of the times they will get the approval like prototypes

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Re: police .modulator

Postby thrasherg » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:25 pm

seeberluca wrote:Here in Europe most of the times the main problem is that you can not do modifications on your Bike/car without any approval from the State Department. For example: you can not mount the xeno light kit on a car without the approval even if you are using OEM parts.
So, even if the modulators are legal ( but I don't know if they are) it is illegal mout them without the approval from the State Department. The right way is mount the accessories and before using them going to the TUV or similar and asking for the approval. If you get it there is no need to have a law who says it is legal.
The TUV tech will test the accessories and verify how they work and most of the times they will get the approval like prototypes


This is true for EU countries, but the UK does not follow EU rules, so they are still allowed to modify motor vehicles, that will change but for the moment it is NOT illegal to modify motor vehicles in the UK. When I lived in France I was constantly modifying my cars/bikes and finding ways to hide the modifications from the eyes of the police and annual safety inspection!! :lol:

Gary

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Re: police .modulator

Postby squirrel » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:47 am

what thrasherg said is correct as long as the bike passes the m.o.t. which it did with the modulator on then the bike is road legal . im stil waiting.for court date

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Re: police .modulator

Postby Pam » Sun Mar 31, 2013 10:30 pm

Keep us posted on this It seems backwards to not allow a modification that makes the machine better and safer

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Re: police .modulator

Postby twostrokes48 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:02 pm

It all falls under socialism and total state control eliminating as much freeedom from the people as possible and for their own safety of course. People are not smart enough by themselves, they must have the state tell them what they can do. Unfortunately it is coming to America, just like E85 is on the way E10 basicly being mandatory. At least here where I live it is, cuz you don't have any option. There is no ethanol free fuel available in San Antonio,TX
I guess on the bright side, since it is being tought in school now starting in pre-school, furture generations won't miss freedom, as they won't know what it is.

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Re: police .modulator

Postby themainviking » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:04 pm

twostrokes48 wrote: future generations won't miss freedom, as they won't know what it is.


A population must always choose between freedom and security. They are mutually exclusive. 9/11 made the choice for the entire world, and freedom went the way of the Dodo bird. Freedom is close to extinct now, and on the endangered list, but the U.S. Homeland Security, and our Canadian RCMP terrorist division have made us secure instead. I miss freedom even eleven years later. I served my country in the army to earn this freedom, and my own countries' leaders took it away. Sorry bout the political rant, but this subject is kind of a sore point. As far as Britain's problems with modulating headlamps, it is simply a matter of ignorance on the part of their leaders, as is commonly the case in all democratic countries. If our countries were not democratic societies, all of the above would be just a group of moot points, and we would need to hide our critical attitudes under a bushel, so to speak.
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Re: police .modulator

Postby twostrokes48 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:43 pm

Yea, I shouldn't have started the rant myself....It is just that everything is starting to affect me that way. I am very seriously considering a 3rd world country. If I am going to live, giving up my freedoms, I may as well live in a 3rd world country where at least I can buy my way out of laws, rules, and regulations. I lived in the Philippines for 15 years and may return. At least it is a place I know and understand the system. But back to modulating headlights....I hope someone will be able to penetrate the laws with logic and get them changed.

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squirrel
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Re: police .modulator

Postby squirrel » Tue Apr 16, 2013 4:58 pm

hi all. update on modulator v police. recieved letter today saying no further action to be taken . l have no idea where this leaves me legally so i guess i will carry the letter on me as a get out of jail free card. what do you think

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Re: police .modulator

Postby themainviking » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:20 pm

I know I would. I carried the Ministry of Transport official rulings on legal helmets for years, and talked my way out of many an illegal helmet ticket. This was when I was the regional representative for Bikers Rights Organization, rode a Harley and wore a beanie helmet. Our laws at the time said all it needed was a D.O.T. sticker on the helmet, and the police "were not" authorized to inspect or determine if the helmet was or was not in accordance with D.O.T. Now our highway traffic regulations give the police the right of determination, but they still cannot inspect the helmet unless you hand it to them. I had them ask me to take it off, and I said that they would need a warrant. Hawwwwwww, snork. I have mellowed a lot since then.

Glad they smartened up with your modulator squirrel. Good on ye.
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Re: police .modulator

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:25 pm

I guess I'd at least ask a cop about it.
This seems to be a "get out of jail free " this.time.
It may be a judge's discretion to dismiss the offence.
Are you willing to risk it for the next time.
Mabe contact the vehicle safety people about it....If you have the way to do that.

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Re: police .modulator

Postby Pam » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:02 pm

I think I would carry the letter as well as ask the author of the letter for clarification on the matter. Was the letter from a prosecutor or judge? Some one has decided not to prosecute the matter, and it would be nice to know who made that decision and why.

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Re: police .modulator

Postby SteveB123 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:10 pm

I'd bet the letter was from the procecutor, based on a "reasonable expectation of conviction." This time. Could just be from crappy police notes...or whatever.

It's still illegal (as you knew from the beginning), and is still subject enforcement tomorrow...by an officer who takes better notes.
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Re: police .modulator

Postby squirrel » Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:56 pm

very true . i think i was lucky this time and i don't want to push it . but i also don't want to disable the modulator now not sure what to do. illegal yes .life saver yes

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Re: police .modulator

Postby thrasherg » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:13 pm

Do like I did, move to the USA where they are legal and the weather is better!! :D

Gary

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Re: police .modulator

Postby Pam » Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:20 am

I think I would still seek out the reason for the lack of prosecution, (on paper) because it might be handy in the future. If it was from a poor investigation then you can bet that it won't happen again and the next officer or even the same one will be sure to have the I's doted and the T"s crossed. I worked as a LE Officer for a long time and I know I would make sure I had my ducks in order the second time around. Some officers take things personal and if this one does you can bet he is educating himself for the next encounter.

Just my thoughts




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