Lack of tire availability


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wilmo
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Lack of tire availability

Postby wilmo » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:25 am



Yesterday was not a good day. I recently bought new tires for the wing, a 1200. About 2 months ago, less than 1000m. I go out to ride it to work and am having a tough time pushing her back. The rear tire was nearly flat, WTF? Ride a mile to the gas station fill her up, go to work. Come out at noon and it's back to 12 lbs. I can air it up at work so I do. 4 miles to home and now it's back down to 30 psi. I decide to check for leaks with a soap solution. While doing so, I discover a frown radially across the tire-looks like the rubber is starting to peel from itself.
Make a long story short, I bought them from JP cycles :evil: . I called the Pirelli rep on warranty information. This is the shocking part: Pirelli doesn't make a tire rated for the goldwing rear. WTF? again. I go to JP's site and they list specifically the GL 1200A for that tire, that's why I bought it, they say it is the correct tire, Pirelli says NO as its weight rating is right at what the bike is without a rider.
The tire is showing signs of stress, cracking and tearing due to overweight. Don't know why it won't hold air anymore but that is going to be determined by a local dealer and Pirelli together. They know my story and are aware that JP is incorrectly listing a tire that isn't correct for the bike just to make a sale.
The Pirelli rep says the Metzler 880 is the correct tire and has a rating of 80H, or almost 1000lbs. This brings up the idea for me to shop around, armed with correct information. There are only 3 tires made for a 1200 that supports the weight properly: Shenko, Dunlop, and Metzler. I looked up Michelin Commander II's. Nope, their rating is 74H same as the Pirelli I just destroyed. I don't like the tread design of the Shenko, Dunlops suck in my experience with them, that leaves me with one tire to choose from. The frustration is that tire mfgrs don't make tires for this bike, probably because there isn't enough of them to make worthwhile.
Just venting here. If Pirelli denies the claim then i'm out the money for the Pirelli, plus that for the new tire and this can take 3-4 weeks to resolve, meanwhile, I'm not riding during prime season. This sucks. Bright side is I didn't die from this tire exploding while riding, the dealer inspecting the tire crack was quite concerned and glad I can't ride with this tire.
Beware what tire dealers are trying to sell you, and particularly JP cycles. I would like to add them to the Saber cycle list of disreputable dealers.



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dingdong
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby dingdong » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:46 pm

I would think that since you purchased the tires from JP Cycles that they should be held responsible. The only beef should be between JP Cycles and Pirelli. Good luck with this.
Tom

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wilmo
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby wilmo » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:45 pm

I agree, and the Pirelli rep was concerned but said ultimately he can't force them to make the changes on their web site. He can just advise them. Seems like they could get heavy handed about it but probably don't want to jeopardize sales. I havent' contacted JP about this yet as I'm waiting to see what Pirelli is going to do about it. Eventually, I will tell them about this and how no more business for them, etc. I personally don't expect JP to care or attempt to make this right. The best way to inform others is in forums like this where the real users go to find out stuff :mrgreen:

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dingdong
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby dingdong » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:14 pm

I believe I would have gone back to JP Cycles before I contacted Pirelli. You may be worrying needlessly. JP may just make this good. At least give them the chance before you do any bashing.
Tom

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Thu Jul 24, 2014 5:56 pm

I may be wrong, but I think the Kenda Kruz 673's and the Bridgestone S11 Spitfire may also work on a GL1200. I have an E3 on the rear of mine, and it is wearing beautifully. It is VERY annoying in the noise it makes, but the wear has been great.

I bought a set of Kenda Kruz 673's to put on the bike when the Elite wears out. I've also run the Shinko Tourmaster 230 on a goldwing and they rode just fine.

The BT-45 Battlax is advertised to be a Harley Davidson replacement, if I recall correctly. I do not know if it is available in 130/90/15 to fit the wing or not, but it may be another option to look at.

I had decided on a set of Spitfires until I read some negative reports on them. They look awesome on paper. I don't know how they work in real life though.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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wilmo
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby wilmo » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:56 am

dingdong wrote:I believe I would have gone back to JP Cycles before I contacted Pirelli. You may be worrying needlessly. JP may just make this good. At least give them the chance before you do any bashing.


Been awhile since this thread was active. This is due to my waiting on Pirelli to decide what they are going to do about the tire that failed early on my bike. Pirelli denied the claim. In less than 1000mi the tire started to come apart. So they naturally decided it's not their fault. So much for Pirelli. In my last post in this thread I had some bad words for JPcycles, which is where I bought the tire. I wanted to put them in the same list as Saber Cycle. I'm now rescinding that idea and replacing them with Pirelli. I called JP and told them the whole story, including the part where, and dig this, the Pirelli rep said outright that they do not make a tire for Goldwings period. The rep went on to say that their tires can't hold up the weight of a Goldwing and therefore, do not recommend anything they make for our bikes. Nice to know ahead of time. :evil:. Anyway, I pointed out to JP that on their site for this tire and any Pirelli, that they are incorrectly showing in the fitment section for the tires that Goldwings are ok. Ultimately, they gave me a 25% discount over the sale price on any tire I wanted to buy and that they will research this issue and make necessary changes to their website reflecting this.
So, bottom line, do not buy Pirelli tires for Goldwings as the manufacturer even states their tires aren't meant for them. Even with the discount, which JP really didn't have to do, this tire ended up costing me over $300, including the new tire I just bought. Pirelli sucks, as a company, and will never get any of my business ever again. Incidentally, they did not ask what the tire was mounted on to make their determination, which of course will go in their favor, they won't admit failure. Where I got told no tires for Goldwings was when I casually mentioned I was considering a Goldwing. That was when the rep told me about that. The failure was due to 'uneven wear pattern'. Duh, that and the fact the tire was unraveling. But that's not their fault, it's mine because I bought their junk. I've spent 3 weeks not riding waiting for, hopefully a replacement tire, which isn't happening. Not Happy :x

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dingdong
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby dingdong » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:54 pm

Well, live and learn I guess. At least you can ride now. What did you end up purchasing?
Tom

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golden highway
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby golden highway » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:32 pm

I have Pirelle tires on my GL1200 for about two years or so. I ride two up a lot and so far no problems. I won't be putting Pirelle tires on again because I don't care for the handling when they are cold. Once you warm them up they are fine.

I double checked the Pirelle web site and they show the route 66 for the GL1200 so I don't know why their rep would say they don't make a tire for the Goldwing 1200

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golden highway
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby golden highway » Sat Aug 09, 2014 7:26 pm

I was a bit concerned about the Pirelli tires on a Goldwing since that is what I have. I did some research and found there are a lot of Goldwings running Pirelli tires and I am not finding any issues. I am not debating if the Pirelli should or should not be on a Goldwing, I sm just suggesting since Pirelli didn't consider the fact the tire was on a Goldwing only the uneven wear you might want to make sure everything is correct on you Goldwing just to be safe.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:26 pm

It wasn't until I started riding a heavy motorcycle (GL1200) that I paid attention to the "load rating" of a motorcycle tire. I suppose I always knew that it was important to ensure that the tire(s) I mounted on my rims were "matched" to the motorcycle I put them on, but I can't honestly say that I gave much consideration to load rating. Attributes like hardness of compound were more important to me, as I think my focus was more on how the machine would handle and how long the tires would last than how much load the tires could handle. When you ride a 500 pound motorcycle, one would think it would be hard not to get a tire that is suitably rated for load bearing capability than not.

When I bought my 1200, I didn't have to think about tires for a couple of months, as the "set" on the bike had quite a bit of tread on them. The front was pretty badly "cupped," which I attributed to the fact that the previous owner (hence forth to be referred to as PO) didn't know you could put air in the forks or rear shocks. What I discovered in short order was that the front wheel bearings were shot, and after replacing them, the front tire and tightening up everything in the front end of the bike, it not only rides better, but it no longer seems to want to "Cup" the front as badly either. I replaced the front with a Shinko 230 Tourmaster because it had a high enough weight capacity rating, was cheap and I wasn't sure what kind of tires I want to run on the motorcycle -long term-. The rear is a Dunlop E3, which I have to give credit to for wearing better than any motorcycle tire I've ever put on the rear end of a bike. The PO mounted it at some point in the past, and rode it for a time. I, personally, have run over 8,000 miles on it and I would gladly buy another one if it weren't for the horrible whining sound it produces when running through curves at road speeds.

After purchasing the Shinko to replace the trashed tire on the front. I got to looking into replacement tires (including the possibility of running a car tire on the rear). It appeared the options were fair. I set my sights on Bridgestone S11 Spitfire tires, and started looking at prices to find the best deal I could on a set. Then, I read in more than a few places of where Wingers had experienced "cracking" of the Spitfires, and I put my search on hold until I could do a little more information gathering. Having run Kenda tires on a few motorcycles in the past, I ordered a set of Kenda Kruz 671 tires in the correct size to mount on my GL1200. They're waiting their turn, for the E3 to wear out, and then I'll put that set on to give them a try while I figure out what to run, more or less permanently, on the wing.

I like everything about the Spitfires on paper. I was put off by the reports of cracking... so, I'll be doing more reading and researching for "the perfect" GL1200 est of tires as time passes.

Here are a few observations that I have made over the last few decades of riding, as it pertains to tires on motorcycles: Tire life seems to be as mysterious topic as gas mileage... I can NEVER get as many miles out of a tire as it seems most everyone else manages to get. I don't know if it has to do with how I ride, the surfaces of the roads where I generally ride, how much air pressure I run in the tires, or if the people reporting these "high" mileage tires are lying their tail off. I will say that the Elite 3 has provided me with more service miles than ANY other rear tire I have ever run in my life, to this point, and it looks like there is 5-6,000 more miles in the tire... making it the first rear I will ever put more than 10,000 miles on in my life.

Some of you are probably going to think that I run cheap tires and I shouldn't expect to get good wear out of them, after my admission that I bought a shinko and some kenda tires... and that may be true in those cases. I used to buy Metzler tires, exclusively, and I don't know if they're considered a "cheap" tire or not, but they felt good under me when I ran them... they just never lasted very long. I ran them on a Honda Magna 750, and a Suzuki Madura (GV1200), and a few others... I have also run Dunlop, Bridgestone and some Continental tires over the years... none of which produced very good life.

It does need to be stated that I am RARELY on the interstate with my motorcycles... no slab riding for me, at least not very often. The majority of my riding is secondary road surfaces, including what we call "Tar and gravel" roads, where the surface amounts to washed stone (very fine) spread out evenly on the road on top of hot (liquid) tar. The tank truck keeps ahead of the machine spreading the gravel.. and the surface has a LOT of small loose stone on it for a week or so after "paving" is complete... and it is a ROUGH surface to ride on even after it is set...

So, maybe that's what costs me tire life. Maybe I'm a bad rider who it hard on his tires. I can't imagine the poor service life I have experienced most my life where motorcycle tires is concerned has to do with the motorcycles I ride. They can't all be hard on tires, can they?

Back to the topic at hand... and to the Pirelli tires. I ran a set of them on a 1970 MGB that I owned a few lifetimes ago, and they stuck to the road like glue. I thought I was in heaven when I put those tires on my little MG. I never ran them on a motorcycle.

I hope this isn't thread high-jacking... all this stuff I wrote, because there is a point that I think dovetails back to the original message. If you ride a 500-600 pound motorcycle, I think almost ANY tire will do. If you ride a 800 pound motorcycle (which I think a fully outfitted Goldwing with some junk in the bags probably would approach in weight, add a rider and a passenger... toss in a few accessories and before you know it, you're loaded to 1250 pounds or more... you HAVE to make sure the tires will bear up under the load.

Manufacturers and Sales people will stretch the truth in order to get you to buy their product. Some Sales people will outright LIE to you, depending on what is at stake... and if they can make more money selling you a Pirelli tire than they can selling you a Dunlop, they're going to push what they profit most from selling... The old adage "Buyer Beware" is especially relevant where two-wheeled vehicles and tires are concerned. Take everything a manufacturer says about their tires with a grain of salt. Do your homework and watch your tire wear like a HAWK... the life you save may be your own.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby redial » Sun Aug 10, 2014 8:11 pm

Hey Hawkeye,
Your observations are sound, and your discussion about them do make sense. Thanks for your experience, and you taking the time to tell them.
Len in Kapunda

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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby thrasherg » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:06 pm

Just as an aside, Avon also make a tyre for the goldwing with an 80H weight rating!! I like my Avons. :D

Gary

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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:38 pm

thrasherg wrote:Just as an aside, Avon also make a tyre for the goldwing with an 80H weight rating!! I like my Avons. :D

Gary

What kind of mileage can you get out of a rear tire?
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby SteveB123 » Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:27 pm

I'm unclear as the reason for all the hate for Pirelli.

Maybe I missed something in the long posts, but it seems to me the tire was used outside of it's weight rating, it failed, and they won't warranty it.
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby bstig60 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:08 am

I have a set of Kenda Kruz on my 1500 with over 6000 miles on them and they hardly show any wear. They are rated for my bike, 63H front and 75H rear. No problems running in temps between 60 and 115 degrees F. The 1500 is about 100 lbs heavier than the 1200 according to the specs I have read. I can buy a set of Kenda Kruz tires for the price of an Avon rear tire.
Bill

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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby thrasherg » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:31 am

HawkeyeGL1200 wrote:
thrasherg wrote:Just as an aside, Avon also make a tyre for the goldwing with an 80H weight rating!! I like my Avons. :D

Gary

What kind of mileage can you get out of a rear tire?


I ride quite aggressively (Regularly deck out crash bars and footpegs) and still manage to get 8000 to 9000 miles out of a rear Avon. I feel that is not bad, but you might get longer mileage from another tyre. I usually go through 2 rears for 1 front..

Gary

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wilmo
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Re: Lack of tire availability

Postby wilmo » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:30 pm

SteveB123 wrote:I'm unclear as the reason for all the hate for Pirelli.

Maybe I missed something in the long posts, but it seems to me the tire was used outside of it's weight rating, it failed, and they won't warranty it.


Yes and no. Pirelli states they don't make a tire for wings. JPcycles lists goldwings as ok for the tire. Pirelli did not ask what bike the tire was installed on-they do not know. Pirelli doesn't list wings because they don't have a matching front and rear tire tread with the proper weight ratings. Kind of a catch 22. Their reason for denying the claim wasn't weight but rather a wear pattern. Less than 1000 miles and I have a wear pattern. I don't get it. The tire is coming apart, it won't hold air and this is my fault. I don't care anymore, I've moved on but without Pirelli.




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