deer alerts


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donnielama
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deer alerts

Postby donnielama » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:23 am



While planning a CC50 trip from Jacksonville to San Diego I keep coming across warnings about Deer accidents in west Texas and I'm wondering if those Whistle like things called deer alerts work.
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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:33 pm

After having run completely over one deer and hitting another one broadside on motorcycle(s) in the past two years, I started researching how to reduce or eliminate deer-vehicular collisions.

I've read far more about the subject than one person probably should and I believe I can say with certainty that the "Deer Whistles" are a complete waste of money, unless you happen to like how they look on your car, truck or motorcycle. Basically, at highway speeds, there isn't enough air passing through the whistles to produce any sound at all.

To let you know how obsessed I became with the "project" I even looked into building a high-frequency sound producing device (I've got a friend who is an electronics wizard) that would make sound at a frequency that humans can't hear, that deer can (above 20K hertz) to see if that would help in keeping deer out of the path of my motorcycle... and stumbled on a research paper written by a University group that tried a similar thing. The short version is/was that the high frequency generating device actually had an adverse effect on the deer-vehicle potential for collisions... meaning the deer RAN TOWARD the sound more often than they ran away from the sound...

Not to be deterred from finding a solution to my deer problems I've been looking into a sound producing device that warbles like a siren does... again, at a frequency above the audible range of humans... I mean, there's not much point in riding your motorcycle "safely" if you have to run some kind of noise making device that you can hear, right?

I've heard a lot of people say "Loud Pipes Save Lives" but the deer don't seem to be scared off by louder pipes either. The truth seems to be that a frightened deer isn't predictable in the least. On the day I hit the deer broadside, I saw dozens of them in the fields close to the road as I rode past them. Each group raised their head(s) almost in unison as I rode close enough to be heard (or so it appeared) and none of the appeared to be frightened in the least by my motorcycle, the noise it makes or the lights on the bike. The one that ran out in front of me came from the opposite side of the road where the ones I could see were feeding. So, I can only assume that it intended to be with the rest of the herd and I happened to be in the wrong place at the right time for it to run out in front of me. I never saw it. I am convinced that all the deer I saw, and there may have been many I didn't see, also knew "something" was approaching them and they all appeared to acknowledge the approaching motorcycle... again, I could see them raise their head(s) and turn their head toward the sound of my bike.

Funny thing is, I was riding the 1100, which is slightly louder than the 1200. I've seen tons of deer while riding that bike, yet I am yet to see ONE while riding the more quiet 1200... which I have no explanation for other than maybe time of year, environmental conditions... who knows.

Perhaps playing music loudly will help. I can't say. I don't listen to music while I ride. I know of no solution to deer as a hazard to motorcycle riding. I just know that every bit of scientific research I can find leads me to believe deer whistles are a waste of money... unless of course you like how they look.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Mh434
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Re: deer alerts

Postby Mh434 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:43 pm

I had two of 'em on my Kawasaki Concours when a deer leaped out in front of me. The deer was killed instantly - by my chest - and I almost died, as well. Both deer alerts were destroyed in the crash. Needless to say, I never replaced them.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:51 pm

I was fortunate to hit a little "Virginia" white tail... live weight about 120 pounds. I'd hate to hit a grown deer from the northern climates... It's very true that the further north you go, the bigger the deer get, and I'm glad to be reading you survived your close encounter. Some aren't as lucky as you and me. One of my coworkers collided with a large (for here) buck last year and it physically cut the deer in two pieces, length ways. The rider was on a Harley dresser and was nearly killed. So, I take the possibility of another impact with a deer seriously.

That's the reason I started researching noise-makers in general for keeping wildlife off the road in front of me. If I figure it out, maybe I'll market the device ... if I figure it out. I'm not going to try to make money off something unless it's 100% helpful in protecting me and anyone who might use the design...

Be careful out there... they (People and Deer) really are trying to kill us off.

Mh434 wrote:I had two of 'em on my Kawasaki Concours when a deer leaped out in front of me. The deer was killed instantly - by my chest - and I almost died, as well. Both deer alerts were destroyed in the crash. Needless to say, I never replaced them.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Mh434
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Re: deer alerts

Postby Mh434 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:52 pm

Hawkeye, if you can come up with something that really works, I will personally go on a crusade to promote & sell 'em for you!

There must be SOMETHING that will work. They're sensitive to light, sound, and scents.

- Lights, we know, simply cause them to freeze...right in front of the next oncoming vehicle.

- Sound, well, doesn't really seem to concern them, as long as it's far enough away that they feel they can dart away...right into the path of the next oncoming vehicle.

- That leaves...scent, which I suppose would be a hard one to do, technical-wizardry speaking. Plus, I'm not sure how pleasant it would be to ride down the road preceded by a fog of cougar or bear urine :o . Ewww. Might have to change clothes frequently, lest we be banned from all roadside restaurants and motels...

I leave it up to you, my brother, and seriously, I hope you are successful in your quest!

Keep us posted!

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Re: deer alerts

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:54 pm

Here's the solution:


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Mh434
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Re: deer alerts

Postby Mh434 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Yep, well, that would work! I'm guessing the canisters each hold a full "nine yards"?

donnielama
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Re: deer alerts

Postby donnielama » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:35 pm

Thanks for your input. I'll save a few $s.
I get a kick out of Loud pipes save lives. In my experience when moving, the pipes are much louder when I'm behind them not so much in front of them. At any rate I think the drown of the pipes would wear me down maybe even put me to sleep on a long haul. Just a personal choice, welcome to America.
I've been reading about deer defense and one idea of that keeps popping up is deer start grazing about 2 hours before sunset and sunrise and may continue for another hour or 2. It's a good idea to slow down and be aware. If your really concerned it's just better not to be riding at those times.
Another idea is to keep your speed up when impact is inevitable. The theory states bikes stay up right when they are moving and locking up slowing down puts most of the weight on the front wheel instead of keeping it balanced over both wheels. I'm thinking if I'm that close there's not much I can do.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:50 pm

Downshifting and accelerating toward a deer (yeah, I know THAT sounds crazy) actually has worked for me a few times, when I thought it was not possible for me to "miss" 4 of them standing in the road when I exited a curve a few years ago.. I aimed the front of the bike in between them and pulled back on the gas after downshifting... two went right and two went left... of course, it could have been really bad for us all.. increasing speed if you do hit a deer or other mammal (dog?) of moderate size will help you to maintain control, if you're still in the seat and if you're still holding on the grips... A buddy of mine races dirt bikes, and he's often told me when you get in trouble grip it and rip it.. (the throttle) ...

I'm hoping the warbling high frequency will work... just trying to figure out how to make the thing work... and then it need to be amplified and the sound projected toward the deer... and it needs to be small, cheap and effective... that's my end goal...
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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redial
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Re: deer alerts

Postby redial » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:08 pm

No deer in Oz! Well not wild anyway. They do have some farms, but they have to be securely fenced to make sure they do not get out of their field. As they are considered to be feral animals, they can be eliminated at will!

On the other hand, this country has more kangaroos now, than when the continent was first uncovered in 1788. The cropping and improved pasture have provided the kangaroo with year round food supply. The kangaroo is on Australia's coat of arms, (unlike your angry bird with a fist full of arrows), so we are one of the few countries that eat our coat of arms. (It is getting a bit hard to find English lions; and I have not found anyone that likes cooked up Scottish thistles; if it wasnt for the Welsh eating their leeks, all of the UK would go hungry :D )

Kangaroos are the bane of all road users, and when you combine them with goats, sheep, and cattle, there are some hazards here that cause the pucker unit to get some exercise. They have similar eating habits in that early in the morning, late in the afternoon are the busy times for the road crossings of these animals.

There is a device marketed here, called Shoo Roo. Which works on a driven whistle, so that it is not passive, and does not rely on the wind only to generate its noise. Although I have looked at this unit, from my deeper research, the same result as what Hawkeye has achieved, is the outcome. It may work, it may not work. The jury is still out on how to overcome this problem!
Len in Kapunda

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rodee71
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Re: deer alerts

Postby rodee71 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:15 am

Try an amplified, high/low frequency, shotgun blast at intermittent intervals, above and possibly below the human frequency range.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:29 am

The problem I have with deer doesn't usually begin and end with the ones I can see... case in point: This morning, while riding along at about 55-60 mph, a deer crossed the road from my left to my right at about 80-100 yards ahead of me. The open area between the ditch and the first trees in the (VERY THICK) forrest at that part of my ride is probably less than 15 feet... so I "picked up" the deer in my field of view about the same time it crossed the ditch... Had I been closer, I imagine it could have been ugly... I can't say for certain, but I do not believe deer look both ways before crossing the road... and she appeared to be traveling at a pretty good clip by the time she hit the highway.

I'm looking for an edge over the ones, like that one, which are startled or otherwise running into or across a roadway in areas where it isn't humanly possible to react in time to the sudden appearance of a 100 pound ++ animal... and it is obvious I can't depend on the deer hunters to reduce the population enough to satisfy my desire to live (at least long enough to get to work and back home again)....

rodee71 wrote:Try an amplified, high/low frequency, shotgun blast at intermittent intervals, above and possibly below the human frequency range.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:32 am

Truth is, I wouldn't want to ride into a Kangaroo, Wallaby, Camel, pig, Dingo or any other mammal larger than 2-3 kilos in weight... Anything that is high enough to hit my foot pegs is too large for me to ride into ... for my liking at least.

redial wrote:No deer in Oz! Well not wild anyway. They do have some farms, but they have to be securely fenced to make sure they do not get out of their field. As they are considered to be feral animals, they can be eliminated at will!

On the other hand, this country has more kangaroos now, than when the continent was first uncovered in 1788. The cropping and improved pasture have provided the kangaroo with year round food supply. The kangaroo is on Australia's coat of arms, (unlike your angry bird with a fist full of arrows), so we are one of the few countries that eat our coat of arms. (It is getting a bit hard to find English lions; and I have not found anyone that likes cooked up Scottish thistles; if it wasnt for the Welsh eating their leeks, all of the UK would go hungry :D )

Kangaroos are the bane of all road users, and when you combine them with goats, sheep, and cattle, there are some hazards here that cause the pucker unit to get some exercise. They have similar eating habits in that early in the morning, late in the afternoon are the busy times for the road crossings of these animals.

There is a device marketed here, called Shoo Roo. Which works on a driven whistle, so that it is not passive, and does not rely on the wind only to generate its noise. Although I have looked at this unit, from my deeper research, the same result as what Hawkeye has achieved, is the outcome. It may work, it may not work. The jury is still out on how to overcome this problem!
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: deer alerts

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:47 pm

The problem with deer is that they're rarely alone. If you see one crossing the road in front of you, expect at least one more to be hot on its heels. Too many people see a deer and think, "wow, that was close" and then WHAM, nail the one they didn't see behind it.

At least we have fairings - if you are going to hit one, you can save yourself at least some potential injury by ducking down to your tank and hoping it goes up over you.

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Re: deer alerts

Postby moneypit » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:59 pm

don't ride during the rut this is when deer move the most . Deer always move more in the morning and at just before dust... Deer whistles do not work..

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Re: deer alerts

Postby wing rider 2012 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:23 pm

The hearing range of a deer falls within the human hearing range, Deer .5Khz to 8KHz Human 20Hz to 20Khz. So trying to manufacture a device that will be heard by only deer is going to be difficult.
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Re: deer alerts

Postby Breakdancer » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:25 pm

One more problem to address. If you were to make a noise to scare the animal(deer,kangaroo,bigfoot,ect.), who is to say that you would scare it "away" from you? Maybe it would run from the side of the road to directly in your path. Deer when they are scared are more likely to return to where they feel safe. And some times it's follow the leader. A lot of well made points mentioned. See one, look for more where that one came from. Scan scan scan. Also glad that you guys who had wrecked with one are still here to talk about it.
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Mh434
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Re: deer alerts

Postby Mh434 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 3:58 pm

Took me several months to get back in the saddle after my crash. The broken bones were one thing, the dizziness brought on by looking left was a bigger problem (I didn't lose spatial awareness, like when you stand up too quick - I just fell over). That was inner ear damage, partly related to the concussion (I was wearing a high-end carbon-fiber/Kevlar helmet...which is why I'm still here to talk about it!).

I did put the downtime to good use, though. I bought my bike back from the insurance company and rebuilt it (only had the use of one arm, but if you're motivated enough, even that won't stand in your way - I HATED seeing my bike all smashed up, and absolutely HAD to fix it!). By the time it was back to new condition, I was able to ride again.

I've continued to ride ever since (the crash was on July 6, 2006, 5:35 p.m.). I am acutely aware of deer, now, and am familiar with places they frequent, so I have a tiny edge.

When they're around, though, as Jed Clampett used to say, I'm "nervous as a long-tailed cat in a room full of rockin' chairs"

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:38 pm

I have seen data that suggest deer can hear up to 30K Hz. While I'm not trying to start an argument, I will be most certain what I read is correct before working on this further. The research study I wrote about earlier in this thread was based on an inaudible (to humans) tone. Several things "they" did that I found to be more or less flawed in my way of thinking is, they projected the sound at 70 db at the location where they anticipated the deer would be. I was thinking about amplifying the sound at a level that would be much higher... like 100-105 db at least within a few yards of the bike... I will have a look to see if I can find the paper and post the content of a link here.

wing rider 2012 wrote:The hearing range of a deer falls within the human hearing range, Deer .5Khz to 8KHz Human 20Hz to 20Khz. So trying to manufacture a device that will be heard by only deer is going to be difficult.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: deer alerts

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:42 pm

If you read through all my blathering (first post on the subject) you will see you are EXACTLY right... in the study I read, 53% (If I recall correctly) of the deer ran toward the high-frequency constant tone that the researchers used... FAR more than with nothing on the vehicle at all... so, the last thing I want to do is build a deer attractant, unless there's a market for it with hunters LOL

Breakdancer wrote:One more problem to address. If you were to make a noise to scare the animal(deer,kangaroo,bigfoot,ect.), who is to say that you would scare it "away" from you? Maybe it would run from the side of the road to directly in your path. Deer when they are scared are more likely to return to where they feel safe. And some times it's follow the leader. A lot of well made points mentioned. See one, look for more where that one came from. Scan scan scan. Also glad that you guys who had wrecked with one are still here to talk about it.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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themainviking
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Re: deer alerts

Postby themainviking » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:11 pm

I dunno, but my screams of fear sometimes scare them off the road, but don't help me very much..... :ugeek: I carry spare undies for chance meetings.
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Re: deer alerts

Postby brentsboats » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:37 pm

FIND SOMETHING THAT SOUNDS LIKE SHOTGUN GOING OFF EVERY FEW MINS .ILL BET THEY RUN THE OTHER WAY ?
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Re: deer alerts

Postby Breakdancer » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:50 pm

Been there, tried that. We actually have 2 canons that are charged by 20# lp tanks. Got them from the Dept. of Natural Resources,(DNR), for the purpose of scaring the deer out of our sweet corn and green bean fields. You can set them to blast every 5-30 min.and they are louder than a 12 gauge. Seems they get used to them almost immediately. They'll be chewing away with a big mouth of beans, canon will go off, deer lift their heads to say,"What the @$#% was that?" then continue on to destroy our fields. Was a good thought though.
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redial
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Re: deer alerts

Postby redial » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:29 pm

They'll be chewing away with a big mouth of beans, canon will go off, deer lift their heads to say,"What the @$#% was that?"


Well at least someone/thing is eating that hill o beans! I thought that the cannon could be self refilling with the deer providing the methane for the cannon! :lol:
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Re: deer alerts

Postby CMReynolds1 » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:27 pm

Had a trucker tell me he liked them. The made the deer look up at him, just before he slammed into it. In other words, a waste of money & false security. I had them on my first wing & never since on any other bike.


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