Alternators/ Stators


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littlebeaver
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Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Alternators/ Stators

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:21 pm



I enjoy the youtube videos some explain how a part works ect... I was watching how to remove bearings in the alternator's and seeking what is a common failure in a typical alt. Is it the brushes that fail? or the wires? or Bearings? I learned a bunch watching guys taking these apart today and I feel that next time mine fails in a vehicle or stops charging I'm going inside after it....I usually just replace it with a new one....as many do,, but if it's just a few parts to replace, it could cost much less to repair... here's a cool video on how one works... Ignore it if you already know all this...

what is the common issue with the 1100's Stator?



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virgilmobile
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82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:57 pm

I wasn't aware that there was a "issue" with the stator-R/R design...I do not consider abuse or neglect a issue.
I've had more than a couple of these bikes....many in excess of 150 k miles ànd never had a stator problem.
I do attribute that to restoring the electrical connections to there original "corrosion free" condition , a good battery and no extra load on the system..
I'm sure that everything has a finite lifespan too..but I didn't find it on the wing.....
Honda kept it simple...2 parts and a few wires.
Actually,I find that the stator system lasts longer than a standard alternator as it is not belt/rubber coupler driven,turning on fixed lubed bearings and rely on carbon brushes under spring pressure rubbing on a spinning copper ring to keep it operating.
Case in point...I sold my 83...all OEM..157 k miles..charging 13.8 to 14.3 volts....My 88 needed brushes...53 k miles....My car..02 POS..alternator diode shorted...reeked havoc with the computer.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:11 pm

diode in the reg. correct? I was just wondering what the common cause was of failure, some do fail... and if it were to fail what is the common cause? It's a great design ....the windings or the brushes or what? I think someone is good providing they don't run a lot of extra stuff...Overloading the system can and will cause failure (abuse) ... as for Neglect, I'm not aware of any maintenance for it other than keep oil in the engine ....what do you mean when you say neglect? Is there anything one should do to prevent failure? Would bad grounds to the engine cause issues? Maybe poor wires or burnt connects? Not knowing about it and running it like that?
Last edited by littlebeaver on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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virgilmobile
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82 GL1100 I
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83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:46 pm

Neglect....When I got my 1980 it appeared fine....the owner did do proper maintenance...the best he was capable of and I do not fault the PO.....What he neglected to have maintained was the electrical system....Battery lugs corroded almost off...copious amounts of rust at every bolt and through no actual fault by him...copper wiring and connections turning green......Sheesh...
The chrome had a nice shine.... (lipstick on a pig) :D
As far as the diode....
The common car alternator has not changed much... other than putting the regulator module inside the unit....Remember the 70' cars and trucks had a regulator on the firewall..
The diode cluster is very much like the bike has....the alternators are 3 phase AC, just like the gl1000-1200....the alternators house the 6 diodes in the back housing...right along with the regulator module and brushes....The wing just uses a external diode block and regulator..
The regulator is different....on a car alternator,as described in the video,they change the current on the slip rings to change the output...on the wing...voltage is regulated by shorting one stator wire to ground electronically to dampen or regulate the output...
Last edited by virgilmobile on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:48 pm

I am so glad you said this,,, you know how many members are going to read this and zero in on it? It's a major wake up call not to over load the bike and to keep on top of all electrical connections...Especially grounds...and it's ok to change a fuse, even when it's not bad, I like to take a q tip and some alcohol to them and the connectors once in a while .. :shock: Now, what about the 1200's they had issues didn't they?

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:16 pm

My 84 didn't....I suppose some did...I could probably blame "low bid"....Honda designed some of the bikes with a bit more demand on the electrical system....well..they probably pushed the limit and some stators weren't up for the long haul....just a bit under rated....
I always rate my devices on a 80% mark...If I need 80 amp....I always provide a 100 amp capability.
The same the other way...if my "part" is rated for 100 amp...I never allow it to operate above the 80%.
We both have seen melted connections on the stator plug....corrosion...restricted current flow...heat....it ends up in the stator and R/R.

My word..the bikes 30 years old...My 2006 POS Suzuki car has failed every year the last 3 years....62k miles just replaced the head gasket 2 months ago...junk POS car..

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WingAdmin
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Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:43 pm

The 4-cylinder stators are more simplistic than what is seen in that video - instead of field coils, they have fixed magnets.

One of the most common failure modes in those stators is breakdown of the insulation on the windings - and I suspect this is due to heat and acidity in the oil, the acidity coming from infrequent oil changes.

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littlebeaver
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Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:06 pm

So it's not a bad idea to give the engine a flush (Seafoam) once in a while and keep that oil clean..?. What about the exterior ones (1500/1800), are they repairable or do most fellas/gals just replace the whole unit...? so replacing the whole stator coil winding thingy on the 1100's is the fix most the time, right? :shock: :D

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Fatwing Chris
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Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby Fatwing Chris » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:22 am

WingAdmin wrote:The 4-cylinder stators are more simplistic than what is seen in that video - instead of field coils, they have fixed magnets.

One of the most common failure modes in those stators is breakdown of the insulation on the windings - and I suspect this is due to heat and acidity in the oil, the acidity coming from infrequent oil changes.


I'm with you.You really can't overload a stator as they're running at full output all the time.The only thing that affects stator output is RPM.The regulator/rectifier dumps the excess voltage to ground when not needed.That's why your reg/rec ground condition is so critical along with all the connections between it and the stator.More resistance= more heat.IMHO the 1200's had a higher failure rate because of poor coating/insulation on the windings from the factory.The aftermarket replacements were a lot more stout.Leaving dirty oil in the motor over the winter is probably the biggest killer of stator windings.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

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WingAdmin
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Re: Alternators/ Stators

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:46 am

littlebeaver wrote:So it's not a bad idea to give the engine a flush (Seafoam) once in a while and keep that oil clean..?. What about the exterior ones (1500/1800), are they repairable or do most fellas/gals just replace the whole unit...? so replacing the whole stator coil winding thingy on the 1100's is the fix most the time, right? :shock: :D


Not so much flushing the engine, but just oil changes, and not letting used oil sit in the crankcase for long periods.

The external alternators on the 1500/1800 can be rebuilt/rewound, just like a car alternator.




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