Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension


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Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:17 am



I was reading through the current Motorcyclist magazine, and came across this article. It's based on a recent patent filing by Honda:

Honda GL1800 Patent Filing
Honda GL1800 Patent Filing

This filing appears to show a new type of suspension for the GL1800: a heavy-duty, leading-link suspension. With the limitations of telescopic fork suspension for the heavy Goldwings showing themselves more and more - particularly with the large array of aftermarket "solutions", I suppose Honda thought it was time to do something about it. The magazine drew an artist's representation of what they think the new GL1800 will look like:

New GL1800 with Leading Link Suspension
New GL1800 with Leading Link Suspension


From the article:

Honda is working on an unusual front suspension for the bike that will replace the long-in-the-tooth Gold Wing, swapping a telescopic fork for a complex leading-link arrangement. The new design has emerged via patent in Japan, which reveals that the firm is already styling an effective front fender to suit the unusual suspension. That such details are under development hints that the mechanical part of the design is already complete.

Even with the aid of diagrams from the patent, the new suspension is mind-boggling. At a glance it looks like a leading—link of the sort usually seen on sidecar outfits or the occasional scooter, but closer inspection reveals the system to be far more complex.

The majority of the suspension movement comes from the leading link, which is attached at the back to a vertical link that comes down from the bike's headstock. On a conventional leading-link arrangement, this vertical member would be able to swivel to provide steering input but would otherwise be rigidly attached to the bike, allowing a spring and damper unit to be attached directly between it and the leading link.

Here's where Honda's design differs. Its vertical element, while attaching the leading link's pivot point to the headstock, is able to move fore and aft. That movement is controlled by a suspension wishbone attached to a single shock, rather like a BMW Telelever layout.

The result is a front suspension system that should be far more rigid, longitudinally and laterally, than a conventional fork while allowing a huge amount of freedom for suspension designers to tweak the way that the front wheel moves. Unlike a normal leading link there's an element of rearward movement as the suspension compresses, mimicking the effect of conventional forks. Another linkage between the brake caliper and the vertical link will provide an element of
anti-dive.

Apart from the extra strength of the system compared to a fork - an important consideration on a bike as heavy as the Gold Wing - the setup's use of a single shock opens up more scope for electronic damping control or even variable ride height.

Text accompanying the patent specifies that the engine is a “multi—cylinder, flat, opposed—type" unit mounted longitudinally, matching and the Wing's flat-six description. The lead stylist appears to be Kenji Tako, whose past projects have included the latest iteration of the VFR800 as well as the current CTX700 and CTX1300 tourers and the still-born VFR12O0T, which should give us some clue as to the next Wing's new shape.



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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby dadztoy » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:36 pm

Well, glad to see Honda is working on a new front suspension system, hopefully for the Wing but in all honesty, Honda needs to work on a lot more than the new leading link suspension... For a company allegedly having the "flagship" touring machine they are lagging woefully behind on things like an electric windscreen, a decent GPS system, bluetooth integration, and a host of other features... If I do buy another bike, I doubt it will be another Wing unless these issues are addressed in future models... The electronics and other features on my buddies new 2015 Harley put the GoldWIng to shame!!!

Les

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby crock4 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:18 pm

:D
dadztoy wrote:Well, glad to see Honda is working on a new front suspension system, hopefully for the Wing but in all honesty, Honda needs to work on a lot more than the new leading link suspension... For a company allegedly having the "flagship" touring machine they are lagging woefully behind on things like an electric windscreen, a decent GPS system, bluetooth integration, and a host of other features... If I do buy another bike, I doubt it will be another Wing unless these issues are addressed in future models... The electronics and other features on my buddies new 2015 Harley put the GoldWIng to shame!!!

Les

They don't have an electric windscreen either, nor the power or smooth ride of a Goldwing. They will also rattle your teeth loose with the rough idle. You can get all the electronic gizmos you want from a video game, but you can't ride it.
Please don't think I am dissing your comment. I ride a 01 wing that I ride with my wife. I also have a softail duece. The Harley is fun to ride around town, but doesn't hold a candle to comfort of the wing.
Sorry to be so long-winded, but a couple of points. I agree it has taken Honda a long time to upgrade their flagship bike. I know that when they do it will be with innovative well engineered components, not just band-aids for the sake of a short term solution.
Thanks for the soap box.
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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby dadztoy » Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:30 pm

No problem crock - I understand where your coming from... Yes, the Honda flat 6 is by far the better motor but I too have ridden Harley's and my buddies new 2015 and it is a pretty nice ride... IMO, the Harley stock suspension is heads above the Wing suspension - a real plush ride with no harshness at all... Yes, it vibrates a bit but that's Harley... My buddies bike is CVO and I don't remember the model but I was an Electra Glide bagger that I rented in Hawaii a few years ago and even the ride on that bike was superior to my Wing... Just my feelings and comments and surely others will differ...

Actually, when I hang up my "cross country spurs" I would not buy a Harley, but I be inclined to probably trade the Wing and buy a Indian Chief Vintage... I have always had a love affair with Indian Motorcycles and if I'm not riding cross country, a Chief would be fine for me...

In terms of "electronic video games", I am a serious cross country rider, having crossed the US many times on my Wing and I consider a good GPS, electric windscreen, and bluetooth communications a must for a luxo touring bike... I can see you feel differently and that's OK - we all have our opinions and your entitled to yours and I am not dissing that either... I just feel for the money spent, we are woefully lacking in what I consider to be essentials that I and others have been asking for for a long time... So instead of making the Wing a semi crotch rocket with less comfort than the previous version (I had a 93 1500 for 20+ years and and a 1200 before that) let's listen to what the serious buyers are asking for and return to the platform that made the Goldwing what it is today... Off my soapbox now :D

Les

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:25 pm

It reminds me of a high-tech springer front end. Since reading about "wobble" and the causes, it has amazed me that there really hasn't been more of a focused effort to eliminate the whole head shake issue with higher end motorcycles to make them safer and more reliable.

I looked at a friend's BMW a while ago and found the front end to be interesting... can't say as I completely understand the physics or mechanics of this yet, but anything that eliminates fork tubes and stiffens the front end puts a smile on my face...

I never rode a Harley, so I'll keep my ride related comments to myself... I'll just say this: I have no objection to whatever another person decides they want to ride, regardless of where it is made, or what name it carries. The motorcycles we ride are as important to us as the oil we use and the tires we ride on (couldn't resist)...

Nice update, Admin.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby harvey01 » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:21 pm

This "new" suspension appears to be a renewal of the one Yamaha came out with the in 1990's. It was a great handling bike but had a terrible turning radius. AS I recall it was called the RADD suspension. I think Yamaha badged it as a GTS 1000?

You might also want to look at the Honda concept bike: http://www.motorcycledaily.com/1999/10/xwingrev/



This XWing uses a similar front suspension and should make it really easy to remove and reinstall the wheels. I am not big on the appearance but it is the direction sport and sport touring bikes are headed. Interestingly it will have a V6 engine.
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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:36 pm

That X-wing concept was from 16 years ago...like many concept bikes, it never materialized.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sun Jun 28, 2015 5:08 pm

I had to look the X-wing up to read about it... I didn't even know there was such a thing. Maybe it's because it apparently never left the drawing board. A few years back, I almost bought a Pacific Coast (I think that's what they're called), but it struck me as being a bit of a yuppie bike after all.. they're probably great bikes, but I went with a V45 Magna instead (back in the early 80's).

I've got a hankering for a "new" bike... can't make up my mind what I want. Maybe if Honda finally gets off the proverbial pot and puts a new model out, I'll be motivated to buy a brand new on for the first time in 40 years. I've been lusting over a few Suzuki models and I may have to go get one. It's either going to be a sporty thing or a Valkyrie... can't decide. One of these fancy new Wings would work for me too with the Buck-Rogers looking front end.

WingAdmin wrote:That X-wing concept was from 16 years ago...like many concept bikes, it never materialized.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby GLRT » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:20 am

The telescopic MC suspension system has been around for well over 100 years and probably is well maxed out on what can be done to improve this design.
EH had a nice leading link system which also incorporated a natural full functioning anti-dive unlike the mostly dysfunctional valve arrangements noted on the current GL.
The Rune had a weird trailing link design which didn't seem to make much sense but I guess it did work well.

A lot of people would like to see a new design for the wing and perhaps this new idea will be a good one. And it probably is time.
I guess I solved my suspension issues with double wishbone suspension so I am fine with whatever Honda decides to do.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby DougR » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:09 pm

I have a 1990 GL1500. I was surprised to realize it gets head shake easily, at 60 + mph. Is this normal?

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:14 pm

DougR wrote:I have a 1990 GL1500. I was surprised to realize it gets head shake easily, at 60 + mph. Is this normal?


With your hands on the grips? No. They do commonly develop negative-dynamic-stability "tankslappers" if you take your hands off the grips however, particularly if you are decelerating through about 30-35 mph at the time.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby DougR » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:34 pm

On cruise control with hands off grips, transitions to overpasses that are generally smooth create tankslapping headshake.

Once I experienced this I never let go the grips, but still feel head shake "coming on" if I don't grip bars extra tight during overpass transitions, etc.

I guess headshake is inevitable? I've minimized on dirtbikes with steering dampners. Do the BMWs and Harleys experience high speed head shake?

Doug

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby Sawdust62 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:29 pm

WingAdmin wrote:That X-wing concept was from 16 years ago...like many concept bikes, it never materialized.


Do you think Honda will ever incorporate their DCT (Dual Clutch Transmission) in a Goldwing? Has anyone seen the NM4 that's on their website? It looks like Optimus Prime folded into a bike.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby GLRT » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:54 pm

I know there is a lot of resistance to the idea of an automatic transmission but I would certainly be open to that option. It would be awesome for a trike also.
I would be willing to bet the new GL will have some sort of dual clutch or power shift system (fingers crossed)

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby Sawdust62 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:39 pm

GLRT wrote:I know there is a lot of resistance to the idea of an automatic transmission but I would certainly be open to that option. It would be awesome for a trike also.
I would be willing to bet the new GL will have some sort of dual clutch or power shift system (fingers crossed)


I also would prefer not to have to shift manually. I'm new to bikes, 3 years, and would much prefer to just brake and throttle. I know there are diehard bikers out there that insist on having the control of the manual shifter, but the articles I've read about Honda's DCT have gotten some good reviews. It would make stop-and-go traffic after work so much easier. My left hand gets a cramp some days in 30-45 minutes of stop-n-go. I also have a hard time getting rolling on hills around Atlanta sometimes. A DCT would help that I think; that or a trike so I could keep my right foot on the brake.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby Big Bee » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:48 pm

All this stuff about the steering link won't mean diddly squat if Honda keeps the same crummy steering head bearings. I hope they realize they need a good set of roller bearings in the steering head.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby WingzRider » Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:11 am

The article content said, "The new design has emerged via patent in Japan, which reveals that the firm is already styling an effective front fender to suit the unusual suspension." Say what? "Effective front fender?" Look at the pic. With the fender in the artist's rendition, it looks like you'd need a "fender extension" that spans the rear-half circumference of the tire to avoid it flinging road-crud all over the front of the engine . . .

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:17 am

WingzRider wrote:The article content said, "The new design has emerged via patent in Japan, which reveals that the firm is already styling an effective front fender to suit the unusual suspension." Say what? "Effective front fender?" Look at the pic. With the fender in the artist's rendition, it looks like you'd need a "fender extension" that spans the rear-half circumference of the tire to avoid it flinging road-crud all over the front of the engine . . .


Yup, looking at it, you're right. And a fender attached to the rear part of the suspension would move with the bike, not with the wheel, so that wouldn't work. It would have to be a huge extension of that existing fender, and there isn't much there to support it.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby Paulcf » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:34 pm

If that's the new GL1800, it sure has an ugly front! That front suspension looks awful! I do see an electrically (I hope) adjustable windshield, finally. Is that all for the mighty GL?
Look at Kawasaki's H2...why not pop in a small supercharger and give it a boost? Or modern electronics including FRS integration with CB radio (for backwards compatibility with other wings). And a 6th gear or dual transmission like the old CB900/1000, and more.

Otherwise I'm going to buy a Civic, it will be far cheaper than the new GL, get better gas mileage and have better everything, including the ability to sleep in the car or take a nap!

And then for motorcycling I'll just ride my son's VFR on nice sunny days!
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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby oldbikes » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:58 am

Had a Honda Dream in the 60's that had a leading link front suspension. Sorry about the pun but it did handle like a Dream.
If memory serves me correctly Honda had this type of suspension on several models during that time period.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby GLRT » Sat Jul 04, 2015 6:49 am

I guess on my part I don't care what they do as long as they go with some sort of automatic and not a 6 speed. That's my big dig on the V-twin as the constant shifting is such a pain.
Front end sure doesn't count as I will remove it and put on my own sport conversion anyway. 8-)

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:30 am

Not having ridden a 1800 cc Goldwing, it surprises me to hear down-shifting is an issue with a flat 6 with what I would presume is a lot of torque.

GLRT wrote:I guess on my part I don't care what they do as long as they go with some sort of automatic and not a 6 speed. That's my big dig on the V-twin as the constant shifting is such a pain.
Front end sure doesn't count as I will remove it and put on my own sport conversion anyway. 8-)
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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby harvey01 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:22 pm

HawkeyeGL1200 wrote:Not having ridden a 1800 cc Goldwing, it surprises me to hear down-shifting is an issue with a flat 6 with what I would presume is a lot of torque.

GLRT wrote:I guess on my part I don't care what they do as long as they go with some sort of automatic and not a 6 speed. That's my big dig on the V-twin as the constant shifting is such a pain.
Front end sure doesn't count as I will remove it and put on my own sport conversion anyway. 8-)


HawkeyeGL1200, I have about 120,000 on an 04 GL1800. I have never had a problem with shifting up or down. I am aware that some schools of riding do teach that downshifting is not the preferred way to slow down but I still do it and will frequently run in a lower gear when riding in the mountains. Yes, the GL1800 does have a tremendous amount of torque that makes it possible to cruise along at 30MPH in fifth and then accelerate to pass someone with out downshifting. Take note that GLRT does refer to a V-twin as constant shifting is a pain.

I do expect to see an automatic transmission on future Wings and most other motorcycles. While I prefer shifting the gears myself, the simple fact of the matter is the new automatic transmissions can do a better job with smoother and more accurately timed shifts than most of us can. This type of transmission has been used by Honda, and by Yamaha on its FJR without a lot of commercial success but as younger riders enter motorcycling they have never driven a manual and I think the motorcycle manufacturers realize this and are trying to be ready for them.

As far as replacing that front end with something sportier, time will tell. The Radd front end on the Yamaha had its great points and its weaknesses and as those weaknesses are corrected this may wind up being the best overall front end, just different.
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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby waituntilthebeep » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:15 pm

I solved the front end wobble by replacing the tire with a Battleaxe and a fork stabilizer. I can take my hands off the bars at pretty much any speed and I get no wobble. It was bad at 35mph before the tire change. As far as downshifting goes, unless the road is super slippery ( and yes, I ride when the weather says I shouldn't) I always downshift. It saves on the brakes and makes it so if I have to do a quick maneuver to get out of the path of some idiot, I am always on a gear suitable. That is a truck driver thing, not a MC thing. I personally like a manual transmission but I don't do the stop and go traffic. Might think otherwise of I was in that situation a lot.

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Re: Honda's New GL1800: With Leading-Link Front Suspension

Postby redial » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:28 pm

To those that downshift to slow down, remember that brake pads are cheaper than gear boxes!

That is not to say that you should be in the correct gear for the obstacle that you are to encounter, eg rail tracks, intersections, traffic signals, schools, etc.


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