New driver safety question.


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Bugmerc
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New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:02 pm



So, the 16 year old has mentioned he might like a motorcycle as his first car. Mom is less than thrilled. What do you guys think? Would you send you high school junior to school everyday on a bike? He is very responsible but has never ridden before, he would for sure go through one of the two day classes to earn his motorcycle license. He would get a cruiser like a Honda shadow or such. We live in Tucson, so population is pretty high, drivers suck here as much as anywhere. Toss me some opinions.
Chris



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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby mterrac » Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:40 pm

I say no way. Inexperience is a huge danger and a motorcycle is not forgiving if (when) you have that first accident. It might be different if he was riding a couple of miles down a back road or two to get to school, but it doesn't sound like that's the case.

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Fiberthree » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:11 pm

Tough call. You want to show trust and confidence in your child but the factors against him are heavy ones. Stupid drivers, lack of experience, and a machine that has a ridiculously unbalanced power to weight ratio. Even with all the safety training, I was very apprehensive when my 34 year old son bought his motorcycle. But you just got to bite the bullet and let them grow up. It will speak volumes to him of how you feel. just don't be too far away to catch them if something goes awry. You can never stop being a parent.
I vote yes.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:25 pm

OK, so far 1 yes, 1 no.

Mterrac- I'm going to play the 16 year old, so I will argue his point but don't take it wrong please. He says what you would expect "how am I supposed to get experience if you won't let me ride...?" One answer I see to that is early Sunday morning family rides, I can be there to see bad habits and try to fix them. (him now) " OK fine, but for how long? A month, 6 months, a year? When can I ride on my own?

I like your point also Fiberthree, you have to trust them and let them grow at some point. We also have a 16 year old daughter. She just got her new (to her) Accord last Thursday. Ugh, that's beyond tough waving as she leaves the driveway on her own... :cry:

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby NVSB4 » Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:13 pm

I had my mc license before I had my drivers license, so I can see his point, but now as a father I see yours as well.
In my opinion, I would have him go through the mc course and get him one of the smaller bikes to start.
Just like you don't just throw him the keys to a car when he gets a license, do the same with the bike.
Start off with "group" rides until you are confident that he is riding safe and knows what he is doing.
Then let him branch out more on his own.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby HALBUDD » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:02 pm

I was debating should I replay to this post so here goes! I have a son who is now 24, I bought two goldwings an 84&85 as I have been riding since I was 20. I took him to the school parking lot on sat.&sun when no one was around and let him ride and get a feel for a motorcycle This was when he was 18. we would go on short ride on the bikes so I could watch him in some easy traffic. He did pretty good so I signed him up for an a motorcycle course. He did the 3 day course and on the last day got to take his drivers test and passed. He Is a safer rider then me,as im still old school.If you truly feel that he is capable of and mature enough to start ridding then its your decision. But like others have stated start out with a small bike like a 250cc and lay the law down no showboating and no trying to ride some ones crouch rocket. Your the parent and you yourself will know what to do. I did get him an old used truck when he was 16 so at least he had some driving experience before trying motorcycles. You may feel like me start out in a car or truck where at leased you have some protection and can get the feel for road before getting on a bike. I hope this will help you in some small way. _____________________________Hal
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby OldZX11Rider » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:48 pm

It's a tough decision especially being in a city. Just buy two used dirt bikes and get him a pickup truck.
Then on weekends load up the bikes in his truck, ride out to the country and learn how to ride. When you lay down a dirt bike, you get up, dust yourself off, pickup the bike and go again. Don't have to pay hundreds of dollars to get things fixed before riding again.
Sitting up higher in a pickup makes it easier to see in traffic in town and is usually a safer vehicle to be in, in a fender bender.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:55 pm

Great replies guys! I really appreciate them. Hadn't given the dirt idea any thought, I've never ridden a dirt bike! :shock: that could work. I like trucks anyway, daughter learned in mine, until my lawyer found out and read me the riot act :lol: . So the boy learned in mom's car. Hahahaha.

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Fiberthree » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:26 pm

Bugmerc wrote:... We also have a 16 year old daughter. She just got her new (to her) Accord last Thursday. Ugh, that's beyond tough waving as she leaves the driveway on her own... :cry:


You're not kidding!
Four and a half years ago my youngest daughter, age 22, went off to England to meet a friend she had made on the internet six years earlier. At the airport it suddenly hit me... She's not coming back. I still get bleary eyed thinking about that day. But I now have three adorable grandchildren (she recently had twins!) and a fantastic extended family. Undoubtedly the same feelings our parents went through.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bamaeagle » Tue Jul 26, 2016 1:52 am

Tough decision to make, but I understand both sides. When I was growing up and I was 15 I wanted a motorcycle. My dad told me no way was I going to get one. I turned 16 and got my drivers license and bought me a car for my birthday (with mom and dad's blessings). I still wanted a motorcycle (as my friends all had them), but I was satisfied with the car for now. When I turned 18 I went with a friend of mine (and co-worker @ the Fire Dept) to a motorcycle shop an hours drive from my home town (on his Yamaha 650). I came home with my own 1977 Yamaha 650. Needless to say Dad was not happy but I guess he dealt with it. Being a dad with two sons I know how hard it would have been for me to let them out on the roads (it was hard when they got out in cars/trucks when the got old enuf). Good advise in posts above.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby themainviking » Tue Jul 26, 2016 5:42 am

My son turned 16 right next door to you, in New Mexico. He wanted a motorcycle, he got a motorcycle. He rode it to school and home and all over New Mexico, then back home to Canada when he finished high school. He did have a mishap, because of an idiot driver, the non conformity of an intersection, and his inexperience, as he expected the car to give him the right of way. He ended up with a broken wrist, and a lot more respect for the lack of decency on the part of automobile drivers, as the guy ran from the accident. Is this pretty average for the way a person is brought into the motorcycling community. I would say so. As was mentioned above, on a motorcycle you have no protection unless you are wearing it, and you cannot dress your 16 year old in body armor. As far as letting him have the motorcycle, you cannot wrap him in bubble wrap. He has to grow up some day, and I believe most people greatly over protect their children nowadays. Keep an eye on him and watch for the cockiness that comes two or three months down the road, and slap him up side the head at that time.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby minimac » Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:45 am

Drivers in cages suck no matter what you drive. I got my motorcycle license @16, three days after my birthday. At the time, we didn't have good riding gear, or safety classes. That would be the two conditions I would impose on my son. Learn the correct way to ride from the get go and always wear the gear, regardless how hot it gets. They can't grow up protected from everything.

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby OldZX11Rider » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:14 am

I suggested getting him a dirt bike because the basic operation is the same as on a street bike. But dirt bikes are much more forgiving when you lay it down.
No broken signal lights, head lights or tail lights and not so much expensive plastic. Much of the plastic on a dirt bike is very flexible.
Then when he does get a street bike, if he finds himself in a situation where he does have to lock up the brakes and slides sideways, or having to hit that pothole for whatever reason, or hits that gravel in a corner, the reaction of the bike won't be totally foreign to him. He's experienced it before on his dirt bike.

Plus, if you own a motorcycle, you need to have a pickup or a trailer because one day, you're going to need it. :lol:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:21 am

Wow, the majority seems to be, they gotta grow up sometime.

I tell you, to be honest, I wish I would have had an earlier start in motorcycling. I feel like I would have seen more places than I have. So one reason I'm even considering it is so he can have what I feel like I missed out on. Is that bad, or is that what we are supposed to give our kids?

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby OldZX11Rider » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:45 am

No, its not a bad thing introducing your son to motorcycling. Of course, I'm not biased or anything. :lol:
I bought my son a JR50 Suzuki when he was about 5 or 6 years old. That was nearly 30 years ago now. After all the bikes I've owned, mostly Honda's and Kawasakis, he rides a Harley Davidson. :roll:

I don't know what it is, but he seems to like changing out parts on it. Not repairs, just changing things like exhaust pipes, handlebars, seats, lights, ...just for a different look. :roll:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby themainviking » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

OldZX11Rider wrote:No, its not a bad thing introducing your son to motorcycling. Of course, I'm not biased or anything. :lol:
I bought my son a JR50 Suzuki when he was about 5 or 6 years old. That was nearly 30 years ago now. After all the bikes I've owned, mostly Honda's and Kawasakis, he rides a Harley Davidson. :roll:

I don't know what it is, but he seems to like changing out parts on it. Not repairs, just changing things like exhaust pipes, handlebars, seats, lights, ...just for a different look. :roll:


Rider - you are not intimating that your son is a poser are you? (Viking - ducking)

Bugmerc - I started riding at age 15. I have ridden North America - about 800,000 miles so far. Every state but two (lil ones like delaware) every province and territory in Canada. I have seen and experienced the people and the scenery of two complete countries on two wheels, and I would not trade that for anything you could give me. There is some indoor sleeping but an awfull lot of camping, which I still do, after 52 years of riding. Give your son the chance to be a saddle tramp. He will not be the lesser man for it.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby OldZX11Rider » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:27 am

Oh he's definitely a poser. But there's still a chance he may hang a windshield and a couple saddlebags on it someday and want to go...somewheres. :lol:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain:

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby offcenter » Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:44 am

When I turned 17, I couldn't afford a car, so I bought a Honda 90.
There were no safety courses back then. I took it out in the street
and taught myself to ride.
That was waaaaay back in 1967.
49 years later I'm still riding, now on bike number 15
if I remember correctly. (a big Goldwing)
You can't protect him from himself forever.
If he's usually a responsible kid, he'll probably
do well. Let the kid get his bike.

One final thought. Make him earn the money to buy
his own bike. If he worked hard for it, he'll be more
careful and take better care of it.
Just my two cents....
George in Jersey.
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:22 pm

Viking- That map is sure something to be proud of. I'm still waiting for Hawaii to get colored in though... slacker :lol:
I would like him to be able to brag about his mileage by an early age. Not that I would push him to travel, but he a total history buff. I'm really not sure he would be interested in being a saddle tramp, at least on his own. That way I could live vicariously through him!

Offcenter- Yeah, we definitely like the idea of him paying his way. His school asks a lot of the students as far as time invested, but we have discussed some options.

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby harvey01 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:54 pm

I think OffCenter hit the nail on the head, " if he wants to get a motorcycle and ride, pay for the course and upon completion with a motorcycle endorsement on his license, then pay for the motorcycle and start riding"

If you give him the bike, he has no stake in it, but if he earned it then he will be a little more protective and not so willing to tear it up.

I like the idea of a dirt bike but why not an on/off road bike instead of a 600cc superbike lookalike? There is no way I would take him to a dealer and fork over the price of a new bike. I watched a mother do this a few years ago on a rainy Saturday morning. The boy was insistent he knew what he was doing. Even the salesman tried to convince him to pick it up on a dry day. He was insistent and mother was writing the check to the dealer sold them the bike. he crashed going out of the lot. Then there was the guy in his mid thirties whose girlfriend was buying the bike for him. It was a Hayabusa and the saleman, the dealer, and the tech who prepped it advised him to take it easy till the tires had a hundered or so miles on them. He got on his nice new bike headed out of the lot and twisted the throttle causing the bike to spin out, it hit a car and there was about 8,000 of damage involved not to mention the ride in the ambulance.

He wants it, let him pay for it! By the way I have two grown sons and have walked this mile---it ain't easy!
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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jul 26, 2016 7:51 pm

My first car was a motorcycle, at age 17, because I couldn't afford a car.

As I recall, my parents said something along the lines of "no way in HELL" would I be allowed to buy a motorcycle.

So, being that I was 17, I decided that this meant I should go out and buy a motorcycle. Which I did.

I decided I didn't want to bother with a small bike to learn on that I would just sell to buy a bigger one later. That made no sense, why not just buy the bigger bike to begin with? So my very first road-going motorcycle was a 1984 750 Interceptor.

I told my parents that it was a "beginner" bike, and good to learn on.

The fact that I am still here today is a miracle. I can tell you from repeated personal experience that the 1984 750 Interceptor tops out at 150 mph.

Of course, my parents then talked to my dad's brother, who had ridden motorcycles all his life, and who dutifully informed them that no, a 750 Interceptor is NOT a "beginner" bike. My parents insisted that I sell the bike.

I dutifully put an ad in the local Cycle Trader, for about $2,000 more than the bike was worth. Strangely enough, I didn't get a whole lot of interested buyers for some reason.

My beloved Interceptor came to an ignominious end when a pick-up truck turned left in front of me, and I went over its hood, totaling the bike, and doing some fairly decent damage to my body as well.

THAT said...there is "no way in HELL" I would let my kid begin on a bike nowadays. Hmm....my parents would say that sounds familiar somehow.

Today's world of distracted drivers makes riding a bike in town dangerous business, and when the new driver is at capacity just learning how to maneuver on the road following traffic laws, there is not much mental capacity left over to watch for other drivers out to kill them.

Know-it-all 17 year old on 750 Interceptor "beginner" bike
Know-it-all 17 year old on 750 Interceptor "beginner" bike

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby tylers883 » Tue Jul 26, 2016 8:32 pm

I would support the idea, if he is an experienced motorcyclist ( dirtbike) or he lives in a small community or he is willing to start with a scooter.

Personally, I think teenager, a bike capable of highway, and zero experience(on the bike and on the road) is a bad combination.

Also, if you were doing a frame up restoration of a bike, I would give him more points for trust because most people won't abuse or take for granted something that they put a whole lot of sweat and effort into.

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:14 am

OMG admin, that was my dream bike, well the 1000 probably was (pretty sure I had a poster of one in my room), but I would have jumped at a 750 too. Are you wearing Sperry topsiders? :?

Tyler- excellent points also, I love the idea of a restoration too.

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Fiberthree » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:12 pm

I have two questions for you Bugmerc.
(1) How long have you been riding?
(2) And have you ever had your son on the bike with you?

I have been riding since 1973 (43 years!) and I frequently picked up my kids from various schools and events on my bikes. I've always had a spare child size helmet and made sure of the correct riding apparel. So my sons and daughters were no strangers to what was required for riding. They were also exposed to the stupid cagers out there and saw how to ride cautiously. As you know, our children pick up habits and opinions from their parents. So your son may already have a leg up on other novice riders due to your influence. I hope that helps relieve some of the anxiety.
Ed

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Re: New driver safety question.

Postby Bugmerc » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:28 pm

I have only been riding maybe 10 years and not continuously.

He has never ridden with me, or anyone else.

While I feel I am very conscientious about safety and riding apparel, and safety in general in other aspects of life, I would have to consider him a total novice when it comes to motorcycles. Neither he or my daughter have really shown much interest in any bike I have had. This latest interest is actually out of left field. Part of his interest I'm sure stems from Mom considering getting her own bike.

So I think the plan will be to work towards a bike and then just early weekend rides when the roads are pretty quiet for a good portion of time, including a rider safety course. Sometimes kids pay more attention when it's not a parent telling them how to do something.

Chris




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