The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?


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The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Sep 29, 2016 7:29 pm



Back in April of this year, based on numerous patent filings by Honda, we guessed in this thread that we were going to see an all-new Goldwing for model year 2017.

There has been much speculation as to whether or not this will happen. Some sources have stated that the 2017 GL1800 will be just like every other GL1800 of the past few years: nothing but new paint colors available. Whether it happens on the 2017 or the 2018 model year, there's no doubt that the long-overdue Goldwing redesign will be a significant one.

Leading Link Suspension

Probably the weakest link in the suspension of a heavy touring bike are the telescopic forks. Even with lots of aftermarket modifications, it's quite clear that telescopic forks simply aren't up to the challenge of such a heavy bike. Complex and expensive anti-dive systems, head wobble, frequent wear and seal failure, it's clear that forks are on the way out.



Perhaps the #1 worst-kept secret about the new GL1800 is its all-new, leading-link suspension, that once and for all does away with telescopic forks.

Also patented was a different front suspension more similar to BMW's Duolever system:




Which suspension system will appear on the final bike? Nobody knows.

Chassis

A feature appearing on many modern bikes is a weight-reducing trick: rather than hanging the engine from a fixed frame, the engine itself becomes a structural part of the frame. In patent filings for the new Goldwing, Honda shows that the engine becomes the main center section of the bike's chassis. Connected to the front of the engine is an upper frame that holds the steering head and front shock mount, as well as the suspension arrangement. Connected to the back of the engine is a second frame part that is the bracket for the swingarm pivot.



Engine(s)

As for the powertrain, it is clear from patent filings that the flat, horizontally-opposed six cylinder engine will remain. New however is a hybrid engine option: a four-cylinder gas-electric hybrid, which captures braking energy and reuses it to accelerate. The front two cylinders of the six cylinder engine are replaced, and in their place is a motor/generator, bolted directly to the crankshaft. Drawings show that this new engine fits into the same chassis as the six cylinder, and will no doubt produce improved mileage figures.

Automatic Transmission

Honda has been putting dual-clutch semi- and fully-automatic transmissions on its bikes for close to ten years now, and the system used on the NC700, CTX700 and similar bikes is a proven transmission. Honda started filing patents showing this type of transmission on the Goldwing back in 2007, and has continued as development proceeded, with some being filed less than a year ago.

Honda's version of the DCT (dual clutch transmission) for the Goldwing is significantly different than the units on the smaller bikes. The Goldwing transmission features 7 speeds, and of course a reverse gear. The reverse works differently than on the GL1500 and GL1800. Instead of a geared connection between the starter motor and the output shaft, the reverse uses a chain connecting sprockets on the input and output shafts. It appears that reverse may well be engine-driven on the new Goldwing, not driven by the starter motor. Like the NC700 transmissions, it is expected that the Goldwing transmission will feature both fully-automatic modes as well as a "paddle shift" mode where gears are shifted by pressing buttons.

The new Goldwing will have electronics galore. An electrically adjustable windshield will finally be coming our way. LED headlights are a given, and GPS navigation, audio system, electronic suspension, different engine modes and stability control are just the beginning. Mid-corner ABS will be included, that allows the application of brakes while hard in a corner. The bike will only allow the application of brakes that will allow the motorcycle to remain stable through the corner.

To control all of these new electronics, along with controls for the hybrid engine, DCT transmission and more, Honda has filed patents covering thumbwheels, buttons and joysticks in the cockpit area.




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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby Bugmerc » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:35 pm

I think I'm liking the sound of most of that. The hybrid sounds particularly interesting.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby offcenter » Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:48 pm

I like the leading link suspension.
It's nothing new though. Back in the 1960s I had three BMWs that had leading link suspension.
BMW called it the Earles Fork.
It worked well. Those bikes would NOT nose dive when braking.

The rest of that stuff you can keep, ESPECIALLY the automatic transmission!!
As far as I'm concerned, these bikes have gotten way too complicated.
When all that electronic crap starts to go wrong, it takes an engineer
to diagnose and repair it. And replacement parts will be nonexistant
once Honda stops making them, making older bikes worthless.
...and I do NOT want an automatic transmission on anything,
ESPECIALLY my motorcycle!!
George in Jersey.
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby Easy rider » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:16 am

offcenter wrote:I like the leading link suspension.
It's nothing new though. Back in the 1960s I had three BMWs that had leading link suspension.
BMW called it the Earles Fork.
It worked well. Those bikes would NOT nose dive when braking.



Agree !! I tried BMW K 1600 GTL. Active suspension is simply PERFECT !! Much better then existing GW suspension.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby FM-USA » Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:58 am

(Maynard G. Krebs)... "Like WOW man."
8-)
Looks like there MAYBE a split between GoldWingers soon, those who like more electronics and those who don't.
SOOOooo...
Maybe my thread about 'a different bike of choice' if GW's weren't made anymore could come into play.
If I can't find a GL1500 replacement I will definitely be looking at something else.
I really don't see any reason why there can't be 2 different versions of Wings, one full boat the other striped down to basics with less electronics.

WE WILL SEE :shock:
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:02 am

FM-USA wrote:(Maynard G. Krebs)... "Like WOW man."
8-)
Looks like there MAYBE a split between GoldWingers soon, those who like more electronics and those who don't.
SOOOooo...
Maybe my thread about 'a different bike of choice' if GW's weren't made anymore could come into play.
If I can't find a GL1500 replacement I will definitely be looking at something else.
I really don't see any reason why there can't be 2 different versions of Wings, one full boat the other striped down to basics with less electronics.

WE WILL SEE :shock:


Along those lines, here's what I would want:

- Something with a manual transmission. I LIKE shifting gears. I LIKE the fact that it takes practice and finesse to do properly.
- ABS. Really wish my 1500 had ABS.
- Active suspension would be nice, it makes such a huge difference in the ride quality, particularly in corners and when braking.
- Modular electronics. If I want feature X, I buy a feature X module, and plug it in. If it goes wrong, I can unplug it and repair/replace it. Because it is not integrated to the bike, there is no massive disassembly and endless troubleshooting.
- LOTS of storage capacity. Seems like no matter how much you have, it's never enough. :)

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby FM-USA » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:43 am

Now I like that, Plug-N-Play, makes repairs and upgrades super EZ.
Go down to your GoldWing store and buy the base model. Check-off list of the add-ons you want and either they assemble it or you do.
In time you can buy, sell, or trade any then Plug-N-Ride. KEWL! 8-)

LOTS of Storage. DITTOES here. Hummmm... Now you're onto something, let's mix these two ideas.
Plug and unplug & play few different sizes of saddlebags for choice, from mere nothing panels to really large bags and trunks all integrated to look good in any configuration.

YA, I like these. :D
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Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:59 am

Way back when, Chrysler came out with new way of presenting car information, and it was digital. The cars also had voice reminders, very disconcerting at the time. Huge rejection of this progress so Chrysler changed the format back to dials, etc without changing the underlying technology. Most of the technology we enjoy in our cars, minus the electronics was available in the '50s, but was again ahead of its time.

Honda has a suitable array of electronics already on the GW. The presentation needs refreshing, not necessarily more items. Plug and play modules would probably be nice, but determining for what is the challenge.

I harken back to my '85 LTD. Other than no reverse, it has a few bells and whistles the modern 1800 does not. Oil pressure and temp indicators, switching from Kms to MPH, digital tach - numbers and bar graph, a travel computer for all sorts of play time. A very good succinct dash display. For the GPS, Bluetooth and the likes, replace the antiquated GPS and allow people to put in a modern GPS unit Ike BMW - does everything the travel computer '85 LTD can do and more. Not a lot of changes needed, but a few cosmetic changes that can make a huge difference to young and old alike.

Agree whole heartedly with the need for a suspension upgrade. The most irritating issue I have read about in forums and on line. The second most irritating issue is the longevity of MC tires on these bikes. If you tour, deep pockets are required for tire replacement (I have a PVT on the rear of my 1800 that helps mitigate this issue).

Look forward to seeing what Honda comes up with for its flagship.

Cheers
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby Alan_Hepburn » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:36 pm

Here's my take:

Ural has been using a leading link front since forever - it does a good job on the Ural bikes and judging by my very brief time on my 1500 I think it will work well on these bikes as well. That said, I find my 1500 easier to steer than my old Ural - I have no idea why that would be true though.

As for the engine becoming part of the frame - I wonder what that will do to the sidecar industry? PRobably need a custom subframe to attach a hack, meaning sidecar rigs will become more expensive to build.
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby offcenter » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:40 pm

Ok, I just HAVE to ask....
What the heck is a PVT tire?
I have seen various people mention having a PVT in
the darkside forums.
(I really wish people wouldn't use these abbreviations.
Not everyone knows what they mean.)
George in Jersey.
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby offcenter » Fri Sep 30, 2016 2:44 pm

For those who are not familiar with the "Earles Fork" that I mentioned,
here's a picture. I've ridden many miles on these. They worked well.
These bikes DID NOT nose dive under hard braking!
Don't know why BMW stopped using them.
Image
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby spiralout » Fri Sep 30, 2016 3:43 pm

offcenter wrote:Ok, I just HAVE to ask....
What the heck is a PVT tire?
I have seen various people mention having a PVT in
the darkside forums.
(I really wish people wouldn't use these abbreviations.
Not everyone knows what they mean.)

Personal Vehicle Tire
It's what some of the guys that run car tires call it instead of a calling it a car tire. I think they think that legitimizes a bit more. ;)

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby Bugmerc » Fri Sep 30, 2016 4:30 pm

spiralout wrote:
offcenter wrote:Ok, I just HAVE to ask....
What the heck is a PVT tire?
I have seen various people mention having a PVT in
the darkside forums.
(I really wish people wouldn't use these abbreviations.
Not everyone knows what they mean.)

Personal Vehicle Tire
It's what some of the guys that run car tires call it instead of a calling it a car tire. I think they think that legitimizes a bit more. ;)


Thanks! I was wondering the same thing!

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby squirrel » Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:53 pm

I like the advances honda are doing , however , I still prefer the older wings simply because they are easier to work on .no relays , easy access e.t.c..but that's only because I have limited mechanical experience and g.w.docs have all the answers .:-)

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby thunderwing » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:00 pm

Link to the patent page for 2018 wing

http://www.hondaprokevin.com/new-honda- ... cycle-news
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby offcenter » Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:22 pm

spiralout wrote:Personal Vehicle Tire
It's what some of the guys that run car tires call it instead of a calling it a car tire. I think they think that legitimizes a bit more. ;)


Oh brother! :roll:
Thanks.
George in Jersey.
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby sr71cbx » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:30 am

Any easier access to the air filter on the new Wing?

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby stephenricci » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:41 am

The concept of using the engine as an integral part of the motorcycle’s structure is not a weight-reducing trick that is reserved for use on “many modern bikes”. Some vintage bikes used this approach as well. For example, my 1966 Honda 305 Superhawk and 1988 Yamaha Virago XV1100 both use the engine as part of the bikes frame. Not only does this save weight, it also makes working on the bike a little easier without a frame in the way. Thanks for the interesting article.
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby OutdoorPhotoMan » Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:57 am

Before anyone shuts down the idea of an automatic bike, go try one. I've ridden 60 bikes (and just bought the 60th one I've ridden). I feel the same about shifting gears on bikes as I do on cars: There's a time and a place where it is fun, and a time and place where it is just in the way and makes for a sloppy ride. My Mustang GT automatic could shift gears far faster than I could when gripping the wheel in accelerating turns. My CTX700 and NM4 are awesome when riding across town, where every stoplight is guaranteed to turn red, and stay red until you are sunburned or hail damaged. Imagine sitting at a red light without having to do the downshift-recheck dance or hold the clutch in. Imagine not having to downshift at all, but feeling the bike do it for you while you keep an eye on the texting teenager coming up behind you.

I was riding my Goldwing into Sturgis during the big year of 2015. Traffic was stop and go for about 3 miles. By the time I pulled in, my left hand was shot, despite the wing having an easier pull than any Harley. I decided to pull into the Indian dealership to take advantage of their parking. Instead of feathering, I released the clutch and missed taking out their display stand by only 3/4 off an inch!

My new Valkyrie is a muscle bike with stupid amounts of power, but also stupid gearing. 1st gear is too short to be of any use. Second gear can take you from 0 to 60 in around 4 seconds. Third and fourth are so short they should be combined. If you are accelerating to merge onto a freeway, you will be clicking through gears faster than you can click a pen. An automatic is a blast to simply roll on the power, and for a bike as sedated and cloud-like as my Goldwing, I think it would be a smart move. Besides, you still get manual control when you want it with a DCT; the paddle shifters work great to over ride the computer.

As far as mounting the engine to the frame, be ready to feel some buzzing vibration at times, which usually transfers to the pegs and bars.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby FM-USA » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:20 am

offcenter wrote:
spiralout wrote:Personal Vehicle Tire
It's what some of the guys that run car tires call it instead of a calling it a car tire. I think they think that legitimizes a bit more. ;)


Oh brother! :roll:
Thanks.

ya... thought the same thing.
JUST extrapolating... a wheel barrel has a PVT. Since it's operated by one person makes it Personal.
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Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby ckc373 » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:27 am

Long time Honda rider, 45 years +, so I think I've earned a say. Goldwings so are getting too big. They are getting too technology complicated. They are getting too heavy. I understand and appreciate the need to improve safety but let's not forget about style and beauty. The new front end design may be serving a purpose, .... but it is without a doubt, downright UGLY.

Rant over.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby tuabrrs » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:49 am

I think the clear sighn that there is a new Wing on the horizon will be the two years prior to launch when we see 'help wanted - engineers' on Honda job boards.

It's clear to me, that they couldn't have more than one of them working 'on the team' throughout the last 4 years (maybe two more on the F Series). Much as I like the ride and performance of my '12 Wing, my list of 'outdated' engineering is extensive. Sadly, most of my list was outdated in'12 when I bought it! There are so many things that they need to do, it's scary to say I will seriously consider other mfgs. for my next purchase because I don't think Honda will be awake yet when I'm ready to purchase next.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby OutdoorPhotoMan » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:02 am

ckc373 wrote:Long time Honda rider, 45 years +, so I think I've earned a say. Goldwings so are getting too big. They are getting too technology complicated. They are getting too heavy. I understand and appreciate the need to improve safety but let's not forget about style and beauty. The new front end design may be serving a purpose, .... but it is without a doubt, downright UGLY.

Rant over.


That photo is an artist's rendering, not the next wing. I like the smaller mirrors, but if you change the looks of the front end, the back has to change also.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby FM-USA » Sat Oct 01, 2016 10:12 am

ckc373 wrote:Long time Honda rider, 45 years +, so I think I've earned a say. Goldwings so are getting too big. They are getting too technology complicated. They are getting too heavy. I understand and appreciate the need to improve safety but let's not forget about style and beauty. The new front end design may be serving a purpose, .... but it is without a doubt, downright UGLY.

Rant over.

Is the same said about this monstrosity?



JUST comparing...


.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Re: The brand-new 2018 Goldwing?

Postby FM-USA » Sat Oct 01, 2016 12:17 pm

... and now back to our threads title content...

There's always the possibility that mama Honda is applying for old WING design patents
to throw us off or pacify us for a few more years/decades. :?


"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.


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