To gps or not


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fred1diver
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To gps or not

Post by fred1diver » Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:42 am



Hey everyone, with the nice weather coming in a few months, I’m debating weather or bot to spend a large chunk of change on a gps or should I keep my money, I’m looking at he garmin zumo 595lm, in Canada it’s over a grand, what do you all think about using a cell phone as a gps?



harvey01
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Re: To gps or not

Post by harvey01 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:27 am

fred, several years ago I took the plunge and bought a Garmin 660. I had a great sale price and have never seen them that cheap again.

Anyway, Up till then I relied on maps to plan my routes and that worked fine and I enjoyed it. I still use maps as I like the who picture and not just the limited amount shown on the gps.

I have found that they are great once you get to the area of the destination for finding motels and restaurants and of course to find a specific address if needed. One thing that I do is when I am taking rides either alone of with a group away from the motel/hotel but planning to return that evening, I do enter the motel/hotel I am staying at in favorites so I can find my way back easily.

I remember the time I was in the Plano,Dallas area of TX and had to call my cousin to come get me and lead me to his house before I got that GPS.

I have not thrown out my maps though and do not use the GPS when travelling across country to stay on course. I belong to AAA so I can get maps free and I do update them at least every other year. There is just something I enjoy about unfolding a map and getting the total view of a given state and the ability to identify fun roads that are headed where I want to go. These are in the GPS but don't show up without a lot of searching.
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Alan_Hepburn
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Re: To gps or not

Post by Alan_Hepburn » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:40 pm

We use GPS all the time. It gives me a glimpse of what's ahead: is the next corner a sweeping turn or a hairpin, of maybe a tight hairpin followed by an abrupt T-intersection? And knowing how to get to an unfamiliar stop in an unfamiliar town is invaluable. Not to mention knowing how far it is to the stop is nice!
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hondapotamus
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Re: To gps or not

Post by hondapotamus » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:09 pm

I don't see why a cell phone would not serve well as a GPS - google maps is pretty good and gives you things like traffic for free.

Drawbacks
1 - not waterproof - if covered visibility greatly diminished - not too much of a problem if you are connected to its audio and can put it away
2 - smaller screen (maybe) - even so, text is smaller than GPS and sometimes too much text
3 - as a Canuck, data charges wold kill me when travelling outside of Canada!

Overall, I've tried both - I prefer the GPS because of it's flexibility and readability.
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themainviking
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Re: To gps or not

Post by themainviking » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:39 pm

I am a maps guy, having spent 25 years in the army, but even we (army) went to GPS units in the early 1970s. These units were briefcase sized. My GL1800 has GPS (known as NAVI) OEM, and I would not be tempted to pay the additional money to have that again, however, the Garmin Zumo units are great units and fully upgradeable. For a better price on one of these units, attend something like Americade, Laconia or Wing Ding, where they have them at discounted pricing. I was at Americade in 2014 when the unit you mentioned had just come out. I believe the price was around $595 US, which is still pretty elevated in Canadian funds at this time, but Amazon.ca wants $1198 for them. I am sure you can still get one on the U.S. side for the thousand dollars Canadian you mentioned. I highly recommend the Zumo units. I cannot speak of the reliability of having mapping on a smart phone, as I have tried it but never found it satisfactory. I have at least six GPS units here right now, for different purposes, like hunting, boating, RV routing (like big rig truck) and anything else I can think of to use one for (think geocaching). In spite of all the foregoing, I also still carry maps for a larger overall view, and just in case of electronic malfunctions.
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AZgl1800
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Re: To gps or not

Post by AZgl1800 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:56 am

Maps and GPS units both have their place, I won't leave home w/o my Garmin 2797 gps.

Pre-planning is best done on paper, or as I do, Google Maps.....
I always put in the destination and set it to 'go'....

Then I look at the suggested route and make decisions on how I want to do the trip.
I pick my via points, and enter them all into the GPS sequentially from 1st to last. This forces the GPS to take "your route" and not that Fastest one that seems to always come up wrong.... GPS algorithms seem to prefer the 4 lane roads, and when I force them off the 4 lanes, they still don't route like I want. The via points takes care of that problem.

When I leave home, I pick the 1st via point and follow the yellow brick road.
The Garmin GPS units of late, have a feature called "Look ahead" and the feature I like best is "Gas stops".. it will keep updating how far it is to the next fuel stop, and when you pass the off-ramp for a fuel stop, it instantly updates to the next fuel stop opportunity.

I ran all through the N.E. states 2 years ago pulling a trailer at top end speeds, sucking the fuel right down to the last half gallon.... it was easy for me to make that decision based on what the GPS let me know. Gauge shows 1/8th tank, fuel low light is not on yet, next fuel stop, 23 miles.... I just keep pressing on.... at the next fuel stop, if the low fuel light is not on yet, and the next stop is 11 miles, I just keep going on...

that allowed me to ride from WVA to Dayton, Ohio with the least fuel stops... and anywhere else I go.... I also have a very tight, leak proof, 1 gallon Jerry can in the right saddle bag.... that gives you freedom to do these things. That means there is a minimum of 30 miles or more, left even if the gas tank runs dry. and the Look Ahead lets me know if the next stop is less than 30 miles....

a paper map to look at when you get confused is hard to beat, but none of them have enough detail to make "good decisions" in rural areas....
~John

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Re: To gps or not

Post by WingAdmin » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:03 am

I love having a GPS on the bike, and I use it for a few things, some of which have been touched on here:

- Helping to find an unfamiliar place
- "Looking ahead" on unfamiliar back roads, to know whether there is a curve after that next blind hilltop, etc.
- Helping to plan fuel stops based on ETAs etc.
- Bringing me back to a hotel - when leaving in the morning, I can ride all day just like "hey, that looks like a nice road, let's go THAT way" and when you've had enough, just hit the button and say "take me back"
- When I'm going riding, but know I have to be back by a certain time. When I leave home, I tell the GPS to take me back home. Then every once in a while, check the ETA. When the ETA reaches the time I know I need to be back, I turn around and head home.

That said, I have been using a used ($100 on eBay) TomTom 720 Go on my bike for years - not waterproof, not motorcycle-specific, with no problems ever. No need to spend $1000 on a motorcycle-specific Garmin. Those same TomTom units can be found used on eBay for $10 now.

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AZgl1800
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Re: To gps or not

Post by AZgl1800 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:10 am

yup,

Scott, I do all of the above, it is hard to put it all into one super long newspaper article :D

if on strange roads, I darn sure have it zoomed in close enough to see the curves coming up.
~John

See you at NASR-11 July 10th, 11th, 12th 2018

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fred1diver
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Re: To gps or not

Post by fred1diver » Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:35 am

ok, so I bit the bullet and ordered my Gps, now all that is left is to wait for spring to get here

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Re: To gps or not

Post by detdrbuzzard » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:47 am

I have a garmin zumo 660 on the wing and one on the might ST 1300 but still carry paper maps if I have them
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seabeechief
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Re: To gps or not

Post by seabeechief » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:52 pm

Just having the "lane assist" on the GPS is worth the money if you find yourself on a freeway in a strange city. If your destination is keyed in and the device is updated properly, it will tell you which lane you need to get into BEFORE you have to make a snap decision. The only caveat to that scenario is all the construction going on in every state, every town and every freeway all the time. Sometimes the GPS programmers just can't keep up. But the overwhelming majority of the time it will be beneficial.

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AZgl1800
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Re: To gps or not

Post by AZgl1800 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:14 pm

seabeechief wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:52 pm
Just having the "lane assist" on the GPS is worth the money if you find yourself on a freeway in a strange city. If your destination is keyed in and the device is updated properly, it will tell you which lane you need to get into BEFORE you have to make a snap decision. The only caveat to that scenario is all the construction going on in every state, every town and every freeway all the time. Sometimes the GPS programmers just can't keep up. But the overwhelming majority of the time it will be beneficial.

Chief

3 days ago, I updated the maps on my Garmin 2797LMT

the next trip out, I entered my destination, and about 5 seconds later, a heard a verbal Traffic Alert 8.4 miles down the road. It was a traffic wreck that was pretty much cleared up by the time I got there, it never showed up again.

in Tulsa, US-169 is under constant repair, and with me going to the hospital daily, I was seeing the alerts for construction: and heard it verbally also.

For 3 of those trips, the left lanes were closed.
then the next day, it gave no alerts at all, the lanes had been opened up, and the dividers moved to the right side, all traffic now going over the new lanes....

wow!!! Traffic Alerts are being updated in "real time" .... well, at least that one time it was.
~John

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themainviking
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Re: To gps or not

Post by themainviking » Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:50 am

They will do that if your area has the capability. Mine does not. As far as normal highway updates, these must happen, then be discovered, then be added to the data base by the company that does it, which is not Garmin, and then be purchased by Garmin to add to their own GPS updates. All this normally takes anywhere up to two years. The same applies to all of the GPS manufacturers. At the time that I did most of my research into updates for the built in Navi units on our motorcycles, the above was factual, and only one company named Navteq was collating the information, to be compiled and then sold to the others.

The traffic updates AZ1800 spoke of are of a different breed than this. I have never been able to discover who is supplying the information, to whom, but in areas that have the capability, they are within at least hours of the happenings. If you live in these areas, it is well worth paying for or downloading this subset. With lifetime map upgrades, it may be included, but for my GPS units, it still needs to be added to the programming.
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Scooter363y
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Re: To gps or not

Post by Scooter363y » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:02 am

I had the same question years ago. I chose to use the navigation provided by my cell phone provider (Verizon). It's automatically updated and the app is only $5 a month. Since then I have upgraded to a Sena 20s. It works great! The iPhone 6s is a larger phone so the screen is readable. But now I mostly use the voice commands. I can use the music app while I'm going but mostly I just listen to the bike and the sounds of the ride. For waterproofing I use a ziplock freezer bag or just put it in the front glovebox.

The iPhone takes the place of the gps,music player and I can make and take phone calls while riding. Just makes sense that making one piece of equipment serve multiple functions.

Ride safe
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redbug
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Re: To gps or not

Post by redbug » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:08 pm

AZgl1800 wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:14 pm
seabeechief wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:52 pm
Just having the "lane assist" on the GPS is worth the money if you find yourself on a freeway in a strange city. If your destination is keyed in and the device is updated properly, it will tell you which lane you need to get into BEFORE you have to make a snap decision. The only caveat to that scenario is all the construction going on in every state, every town and every freeway all the time. Sometimes the GPS programmers just can't keep up. But the overwhelming majority of the time it will be beneficial.

Chief

3 days ago, I updated the maps on my Garmin 2797LMT

the next trip out, I entered my destination, and about 5 seconds later, a heard a verbal Traffic Alert 8.4 miles down the road. It was a traffic wreck that was pretty much cleared up by the time I got there, it never showed up again.

in Tulsa, US-169 is under constant repair, and with me going to the hospital daily, I was seeing the alerts for construction: and heard it verbally also.

For 3 of those trips, the left lanes were closed.
then the next day, it gave no alerts at all, the lanes had been opened up, and the dividers moved to the right side, all traffic now going over the new lanes....

wow!!! Traffic Alerts are being updated in "real time" .... well, at least that one time it was.
US-169 Speedway Tulsa, oh man......Situation Awareness at its best. Sunday morning 7am is perfect. You should get hazard duty pay. I have added the 4 way flasher/hazard lights at the south bound 91st exit all the way to the stop light. This is rear end central and a cell phone rear ended me. She was from Collinsville Ok and she told me "this accident was my husbands fault because he didn't give me directions and I was on the phone trying to get directions" Just another day on 169. Glad to see your Garmin doing the job.
" Ridin on Tulsa Time "

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cardinal
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Re: To gps or not

Post by cardinal » Sun Feb 04, 2018 1:48 pm

I have a cheap garmin I bought over 10 years ago. Can't update the maps so sometimes when I put in an address it shows an empty field....BUT it will get me back to that address after a long day of aimlessly riding and having no idea what little back road I'm on, or even what direction I should go. I belong to a Condo Club (WorldMark) that puts their resorts in obscure parts of town. The resort in St. George, Utah, requires a LOT of little surface street navigation. I could use my phone, and I do when I'm in the car, but I don't want to risk losing it on the Wing.

What ever you use I STRONGLY suggest getting the Goldwing GPS audio input harnesss and using it. Mayhem arrives all too often while you're looking at a small screen!

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AZgl1800
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Re: To gps or not

Post by AZgl1800 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:40 pm

themainviking wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 7:50 am
They will do that if your area has the capability. Mine does not. As far as normal highway updates, these must happen, then be discovered, then be added to the data base by the company that does it, which is not Garmin, and then be purchased by Garmin to add to their own GPS updates. All this normally takes anywhere up to two years. The same applies to all of the GPS manufacturers. At the time that I did most of my research into updates for the built in Navi units on our motorcycles, the above was factual, and only one company named Navteq was collating the information, to be compiled and then sold to the others.

The traffic updates AZ1800 spoke of are of a different breed than this. I have never been able to discover who is supplying the information, to whom, but in areas that have the capability, they are within at least hours of the happenings. If you live in these areas, it is well worth paying for or downloading this subset. With lifetime map upgrades, it may be included, but for my GPS units, it still needs to be added to the programming.
I should have made it Plain, that the Traffic Updates that I was hearing are a result of the FM Radio Broadcast Stations who subscribe to Traffic Alerts....

I can't remember how many different frequencies the Garmin Traffic Receiver can tune to, but IIRC, it is 4 at a minimum.... Possibly it just scans until it hears the prerequisite Sub-Carrier that has a PL tone on it.... the alerts themselves are digital, the GPS is verbalizing the Digital Message.

If you are away from Major Metro Areas, you will not get any Traffic Alerts.
OKC, Dallas-Ft Worth, St. Louis and maybe Indianapolis are the only cities that I can remember hearing alerts in. Maybe Atlanta, GA when I was down there two years ago.

My earlier Garmin receivers required that I pay a subscription fee to hear the alerts... I lived in rural areas all my life, and it is not worth the price....

Both of my GPS receivers now are Garmin 2797LMT with the Lifetime Traffic Alerts
I like it, but it does not mean my GPS is any better than the other models.

I noticed some have bought the newer version of mine, the 2789LMT which has the capability of using a Backup Camera ( an option to purchase ).... I would enjoy that a lot when hooking up my RV trailer.

Meanwhile, I use the "open back doors, place Equalizing Bar on bumper hitch, so it stands up so I can see it in mirror.... Back up until the bar falls off: oops, stop, you are under the trailer's hitch. :D

the "instant updates" only will be seen, or heard, IF the GPS you have supports 'T' for Traffic Alerts and has the receiver plugged in....

IE, my GPS if turned on manually and is powered via the USB connector, or just the internal battery, displays a warning immediately that the "Traffic Alert Receiver is NOT plugged in, please use the supplied OEM Garmin power cable."

The receiver is inside the moulded block of rubber/plastic near the GPS end of the cord.

.
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brianinpa
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Re: To gps or not

Post by brianinpa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:19 am

My GPS is a Samsung phone and the Waze app or Google Maps. It has it's downfalls though. Last summer when riding through the mountains of West Virginia, I wasn't getting a wifi signal so I wasn't able to use the turn by turn navigation. To overcome this, I just downloaded the map/navigation when I had a signal.

It stays current and doesn't need a subscription or a purchase to update the maps.
Brian

If you aren't having fun doing it, find something else to do.

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AZgl1800
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Re: To gps or not

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:41 pm

brianinpa wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:19 am
My GPS is a Samsung phone and the Waze app or Google Maps. It has it's downfalls though. Last summer when riding through the mountains of West Virginia, I wasn't getting a wifi signal so I wasn't able to use the turn by turn navigation. To overcome this, I just downloaded the map/navigation when I had a signal.

It stays current and doesn't need a subscription or a purchase to update the maps.
Ummmm,
Brian, you weren't using a WiFi signal at all, ever, while riding...

You were using the LTE 4g network.. and in West Virginia that is just about totally non-existent....
Especially on Hwy 33 between Elkins and Seneca Rocks, WVA...

ask me how I know.... NASR was a hoot, but my daughter lost her car to a buck deer there, and NO CELLPHONE SERVICE.... that was a bad scene...


Anytime a cellphone user depending on their Google Maps for navigation intended to go thru a bad area, plan ahead and download the entire trip to the phone so you can navigate w/o the LTE 4g signal.
~John

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MikeB
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Re: To gps or not

Post by MikeB » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:18 pm

Hi Fred,

I'm coming in late to this thread but I do have some input for you.

I know you have already ordered your GPS. Which GPS did you order? What is your proposed method for mounting? Will you be able to integrate it into your audio system?

I suppose you could mount it a RAM Mounts to the handlebar brake or clutch clamp area. RAM has all kinds of options for mounting. As to making it waterproof, there are lots of nice little cases out there. I use one similar to the cases below.


My suggestion for a GPS would be a Garmin Nuvi. Just about any of the Nuvi line will work quite well. Here is one from Costco at a reasonable price. At $184 or less, it's hard to go wrong. There are so many to choose from too, many are cheaper than the one shown here.


To make my Nuvi more friendly, I added an audio line. It was simple enough, I opened the unit and soldered an audio line to the speaker input at the speaker. I drilled a small hole and routed the wire outside of the instrument and reassembled it. I then attached the appropriate connector. I hook it ip to my Kennedy Cellset harness. For someone that does not have anything similar to a Kennedy Cellset, it can be connected to your audio system using the Gold Wing GPS Input device that is available here on Goldwing.docs. http://goldwingdocs.com/Store/Goldwing- ... -Input.asp


One more thing, the cell phone GPS is okay I suppose with the MAP apps but I do not think they are as reliable as a Satellite GPS system. Yes, you do lose signal with the Satellite GPS on occasion but no where near as frequently as with a cell phone.

As to AZgl1800's problem with aligning his trailer tongue to his draw bar on his truck, try the Harbor Freight Trailer Alignment device shown below. It is a real helpful tool.


MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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brianinpa
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Re: To gps or not

Post by brianinpa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:26 pm

WiFi, LTE, 4G, 3G... Do I know the correct terminology? Obviously not, but as soon as I write it out, someone is sure to point out the error of my ways.

I know when I enter an address in my phone, my data plan (whether it is connected via LTE, 4G, etc., etc.) will give me turn by turn navigation. If I don't have reception, I still have the map but no navigation until I get to someplace there is a hotspot and I can download the turn by turn navigation.

The other option is my favorite... turn off the electronics and ride until I find out where the road takes me.
Brian

If you aren't having fun doing it, find something else to do.

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AZgl1800
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Re: To gps or not

Post by AZgl1800 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:18 pm

sorry Brian,

being hooked on IT stuff all my life, I just caught that...

My daughter tells me quite frequently, "dad, I don't give a sh*t" as long as it works.
~John

See you at NASR-11 July 10th, 11th, 12th 2018

http://www.northamericangoldwings.com/c ... 9-nasr-11/

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brianinpa
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Re: To gps or not

Post by brianinpa » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:52 pm

It's all good John. After talking with you in WV, I quickly realized you are a techie. I know when it works and when it doesn't and even how to make it work from time to time, but I am far from being a techie. :mrgreen:
Brian

If you aren't having fun doing it, find something else to do.

fred1diver
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Re: To gps or not

Post by fred1diver » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:52 pm

hey MikeB, I got the sumo 595lm, it comes with RAM mounts and free Lifetime Maps, it's pricey but it should last a long time (I hope)
it connects thru BlueTooth to my iPhone and my BlueTooth intercom system, can't wait to have the bike out and try it on the bike, at the moment I'm using it in my Jeep, it also came with a car adaptor, so I'm happy so far

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Re: To gps or not

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:14 am

AZgl1800 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:41 pm
ask me how I know.... NASR was a hoot, but my daughter lost her car to a buck deer there, and NO CELLPHONE SERVICE.... that was a bad scene...
Precisely why I carry my SPOT tracker. :) You don't have to travel very far from here to start encountering extended areas of zero cell service.



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