EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcycles


Anything goes - doesn't fit any other category!
  • Sponsored Links
User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcycles

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:11 pm



Lovely - just what we need: E15 Gasoline Bad for Motorcycles



User avatar
barkman49
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:46 am
Location: Ovid, New York
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby barkman49 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:47 pm

Alittle off the topic but not good for boats
Del

User avatar
detdrbuzzard
Posts: 916
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:54 am
Location: 42.23/83.33/636
Motorcycle: '84 aspencade,'93se
'75750.'79750/9k
'79 750f.'85450sc
'06 st1300a

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby detdrbuzzard » Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:38 pm

not good for older cars and trucks either
'99 ST1100, '93 se
'75 cb750k, '79 cb 750f, '79 cb750 superK
cb 450sc, sunL70
'06 st1300a
.... william

User avatar
maestro319
Posts: 507
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:22 pm
Location: West Chicago, IL
Motorcycle: 1986 Honda Goldwing 1200 Aspencade

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby maestro319 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:12 pm

Hmmm...so, what IS it good for?? Garden tractors? Snowblowers? ATVs?? :?:

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:00 pm

It's good for lining the pockets of politicians and corn farmers.

User avatar
detdrbuzzard
Posts: 916
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:54 am
Location: 42.23/83.33/636
Motorcycle: '84 aspencade,'93se
'75750.'79750/9k
'79 750f.'85450sc
'06 st1300a

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby detdrbuzzard » Tue Nov 09, 2010 7:29 am

maestro319 wrote:Hmmm...so, what IS it good for?? Garden tractors? Snowblowers? ATVs?? :?:

no, the more ethanol the faster it will eat the rubber in your fuel system away
'99 ST1100, '93 se
'75 cb750k, '79 cb 750f, '79 cb750 superK
cb 450sc, sunL70
'06 st1300a
.... william

User avatar
barkman49
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:46 am
Location: Ovid, New York
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby barkman49 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:34 pm

the companys that make additves to keep the water out of you gas will be the winners the more ethanol the more water will form in your tank
Del

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:28 pm

barkman49 wrote:the companys that make additves to keep the water out of you gas will be the winners the more ethanol the more water will form in your tank

I live in northeastern Ohio Lake Erie region. The corn growers here are reaping the highest per ton profits for corn in years.! Ethanol driven of course. Ethanol is corrosive to the fuel systems in all older goldwings and cars as well as trucks... It's true that the fuel additive market will be a huge winner here. You can expect lower fuel milage with the use of ethanol for one. I use and suggest the use of MMO in the fuel system to help fight some of the negative effects of ethanol blended fuel. MMO has shown some promise in helping the usual drop in mpg's while using ethanol based fuel as well as help stop the corrosive effects of ethanol. I have it in the tank of my'83 1100i at all times. And i get 38mpg on average. Another additive worth mentioning is Sta-bil "MARINE GRADE" which claims to fight the corrosive effects of ethanol. since this ethanol sits in my tank and carbs during winter storage. i have chosen to make use of sta-bil marine grade as my winter stabilizer. Especially since its sole purpose is the stabilzation of fuel and inhibit corrosion. So, Additives are the clear winner in protecting our Goldwings. In summer months i never head home without topping up the tank and add a couple ounces of MMO to this GAS-O-HOL, we now have to use.! (MMO= marvel mystery oil)

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:36 pm

WingAdmin wrote:It's good for lining the pockets of politicians and corn farmers.

It's good for Al Gore and his followers. :lol:

User avatar
tandem54
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:00 am
Location: Surprise, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby tandem54 » Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:15 pm

I hate it, I pay the 10 cents more per gallon & go with the higher octane gas.
Here the octane (over 87) has no ethanal, easyer than adding other stuff. & cheaper (than additives) in the long run.
I’d rather be Riding my Motorcycle thinking about God
Than sitting in church thinking about my Motorcycle

User avatar
dingdong
Posts: 2863
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am
Location: Oklahoma City
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000
1993 gl1500
2004 NRX1800 Rune

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby dingdong » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:26 am

Fortunately here in Oklahoma we still have plenty of non ethanol gas. Personally, I don't look for it as long as the ethanol is still at only 10%. I don't even know if my MPG is effected by the ethanol.
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:31 am

dingdong wrote:Fortunately here in Oklahoma we still have plenty of non ethanol gas. Personally, I don't look for it as long as the ethanol is still at only 10%. I don't even know if my MPG is effected by the ethanol.

DINGDONG... You will be effected by ethanol. We all are already.!

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:48 am

barkman49 wrote:the companys that make additves to keep the water out of you gas will be the winners the more ethanol the more water will form in your tank

Barkman49... I think you meant to say that Ethanol (alcohol) removes water from our tanks (drygas=ethanol) Since Ethanol is a form of alcohol. Not keeping our tanks full contributes to water forming by condensation. So this Ethanol is fine if your looking to use it for fuel line antifreeze on a one time basis in our cars and trucks. But to have it constantly in our fuel systems is a really bad thing for all of us.. Just Saying.

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:04 am

bobalooby1 wrote:Barkman49... I think you meant to say that Ethanol (alcohol) removes water from our tanks (drygas=ethanol) Since Ethanol is a form of alcohol. Not keeping our tanks full contributes to water forming by condensation. So this Ethanol is fine if your looking to use it for fuel line antifreeze on a one time basis in our cars and trucks. But to have it constantly in our fuel systems is a really bad thing for all of us.. Just Saying.


No, he's actually correct - ethanol is hydroscopic, which means it sucks water right out of the air, just like brake fluid. When you have ethanol in your fuel, just having that fuel exposed to air means it is absorbing some amount of water. It's one of the reasons boaters are having such huge issues with ethanol "enhanced" gasoline.

User avatar
barkman49
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:46 am
Location: Ovid, New York
Motorcycle: 1986 GL1200 interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby barkman49 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:59 pm

thank you Wingadmin you know what I was talking about
Del

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:56 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
bobalooby1 wrote:Barkman49... I think you meant to say that Ethanol (alcohol) removes water from our tanks (drygas=ethanol) Since Ethanol is a form of alcohol. Not keeping our tanks full contributes to water forming by condensation. So this Ethanol is fine if your looking to use it for fuel line antifreeze on a one time basis in our cars and trucks. But to have it constantly in our fuel systems is a really bad thing for all of us.. Just Saying.


No, he's actually correct - ethanol is hydroscopic, which means it sucks water right out of the air, just like brake fluid. When you have ethanol in your fuel, just having that fuel exposed to air means it is absorbing some amount of water. It's one of the reasons boaters are having such huge issues with ethanol "enhanced" gasoline.

Please explain to me how it is that alcohol is effective in the use of removing water from fuel tanks. Using such products such as "Heet" brand as a fuel line de-icer? Which is effective in "Removing" water. If our fuel tanks were to be exposed to air. Then i could see how water could be attracted... Yes, Alcohol "Attracts" water. But then Evaporates when permitted, taking moisture (water) with it. As in having one drink to many. Your body suffers a "Hangover" through dehydraytion brought on by alcohol. Alcohol in any form is only hydroscopic to a certain point. Then begins an evaportive process... alcohol is a two eged sword so to speak. when it comes to moisture attraction. I once added "Heet" to my washer fluid bottle in my car. Which was near full of windsheild de-icer. (blue stuff) Within a matter of a few hours this washer bottle resoviour was completly BONE dry. And i had not used any of it.! The "Blue Stuff" is 90% water. The "Heet" Absorbed the water and then evaporated it.! i never learned what i know out of some book. But @ 60 yrs old. i will tell you what i've observed and experienced in the automotive world.

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17046
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:13 pm

The ethanol doesn't evaporate - and here's why. With even a small amount of air in the tank, as the tank heats and cools with everyday temperature changes, air is expelled and drawn in, continually bringing more water vapor into the system. As fuel is used and air drawn in to replace its volume, more water vapor is brought in. The ethanol attracts and absorbs water vapor strongly - ethanol is completely soluble in water, but only marginally soluble in hydrocarbons (i.e. gasoline). Given the choice of blending with water and blending with gasoline, it will pick water every time. So what you end up with is this water vapor absorbed by the ethanol in your tank. The ethanol saturated with water is heavier than gasoline, so instead of evaporating from the top layer of liquid in the tank, it instead falls to the bottom of the thank, and the result is called "phase separation" - where two layers of liquid are visible: an upper layer of gasoline with a small amount of ethanol in it, and a lower layer of ethanol-rich liquid (up to 75% ethanol) containing lots of water. Guess where the gasoline pickup is in your fuel tank? Your engine will be running on almost pure ethanol and water, which together has a very low octane number - so if you can get the engine to run at all, it will be detonating and backfiring badly.

In any kind of vehicle that is not run on a very regular basis (i.e. motorcycles, boats, lawn mowers, etc.) this phase separation will happen in a very short amount of time - and the more ambient humidity there is in the air, the faster it will happen.

User avatar
littlebeaver
Posts: 4420
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:21 pm

So what your saying here is this... We're all screwed.. :lol:

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:27 pm

WingAdmin wrote:The ethanol doesn't evaporate - and here's why. With even a small amount of air in the tank, as the tank heats and cools with everyday temperature changes, air is expelled and drawn in, continually bringing more water vapor into the system. As fuel is used and air drawn in to replace its volume, more water vapor is brought in. The ethanol attracts and absorbs water vapor strongly - ethanol is completely soluble in water, but only marginally soluble in hydrocarbons (i.e. gasoline). Given the choice of blending with water and blending with gasoline, it will pick water every time. So what you end up with is this water vapor absorbed by the ethanol in your tank. The ethanol saturated with water is heavier than gasoline, so instead of evaporating from the top layer of liquid in the tank, it instead falls to the bottom of the thank, and the result is called "phase separation" - where two layers of liquid are visible: an upper layer of gasoline with a small amount of ethanol in it, and a lower layer of ethanol-rich liquid (up to 75% ethanol) containing lots of water. Guess where the gasoline pickup is in your fuel tank? Your engine will be running on almost pure ethanol and water, which together has a very low octane number - so if you can get the engine to run at all, it will be detonating and backfiring badly.

In any kind of vehicle that is not run on a very regular basis (i.e. motorcycles, boats, lawn mowers, etc.) this phase separation will happen in a very short amount of time - and the more ambient humidity there is in the air, the faster it will happen.

Which bring me back to my "Point" of keeping your fuel tank"Full" at all times. Top up before you head home!..

User avatar
N2PPN
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: Lawnguyland New Yawk
Motorcycle: Me on my 1981 GL1100 at Jones Beach in 1984

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby N2PPN » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:10 pm

I used to follow the "top off the tank" rule of thumb until the time I had topped off the tank (right up to the tippy tippy top) and didn't add any stabilizer to the fuel (this was about 12 years or so ago when the ethanol was first being introduced into the gasoline in our area...) MBTE was being phased out as it was carcinogenic and was leaking out of gas station tanks and attacking the ground water and local aquifers.

That was the winter sleep that put my GL into a 10 year long coma...(see "Project resurrection from the back of the garage" here on GW Docs)

When I finally got my "Dr. House" act together and awakened my old girl from her coma the ethanol had left behind this residue in all the nether regions of her carburetors and entire fuel delivery system:

Close up of clogged carb bowl & entire carb
Close up of clogged carb bowl & entire carb



Now after painstaking tedium of rebuilding her cardiovascular and pulmonary systems I use MARINE GRADE Stabil in EVERY tankful of fuel. I bought a small bottle (8 Oz.) of MARINE GRADE Stabil and now I keep if in my saddlebag, when I stop for fuel, I add it to the tank EVERY time. I bought the larger 32 Oz. bottle to keep in the garage to refill the little one when it requires refilling.

Even though our fuel tanks are sealed systems for PRESSURE, they are not sealed for VACUUM and that is how the moisture gets into your fuel. Marine fuel systems are completely vented to atmosphere and that is why they suffer the "phasing" even faster as their tanks "breathe" and are usually in a higher moisture environment.

Better to be safe than fixing your Wing...


Rich

Don't worry, Ride Happy.....
Don't Worry,
Ride Happy!

User avatar
N2PPN
Posts: 258
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:24 pm
Location: Lawnguyland New Yawk
Motorcycle: Me on my 1981 GL1100 at Jones Beach in 1984

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby N2PPN » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:14 pm

In an altogether "opposite" point of opinion, if you don't want to use GREEN marine formula Stabil fuel stabilizer in you wing at all times (or any other limited use gasoline powered toy) then a good alternative to adding the stabilizer AND keeping your tank topped off to limit the amount of air in the tank would be to drain ALL the gasoline from the bike and run it dry, drain the carb bowls (if not fuel injected) and then there would be no ethanol, no moisture, and no "phasing" of the fuel to damage your fuel supply/delivery systems... perhaps an inert liquid that has no hygroscopic or corrosive properties could then be introduced into the fuel tank and carbs to keep all the gaskets and O-rings lubed and healthy???

Sounds like an extreme solution, but it would 100% eliminate ethanol from damaging your fuel/delivery system while the bike "sleeps" for the winter...



Rich
"Don't worry, Ride happy"
Don't Worry,
Ride Happy!

User avatar
littlebeaver
Posts: 4420
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 6:11 pm
Location: Kansas City, Kansas
Motorcycle: 1981 gl 1100 I , 79 Yamaha XS11
Special, 82 Kawa 750 CSR, 82 Kawa 750 LTD, 03 Kawa Nomad 1500, 99 Kawa Voyager 1200

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:53 pm

What is this liquid that you speak of, my friend? I will try this idea but I need more information on this.. :D

User avatar
bobalooby1
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:22 pm
Location: jefferson ohio
Motorcycle: 1983 goldwing interstate

Re: EPA Ruling Increasing Ethanol in Gasoline Hurts Motorcyc

Postby bobalooby1 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 9:22 pm

OK, Lets see what this idea brings..? Rather than leave Ethanol base fuel sit in your tank during the winter months. Why not just drain it and the carb bowls. Then substitute k-1 (kerosene) in place of it? Then drain that in the spring.




Return to “Goldwing Chat”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Yahoo Slurp [Bot] and 4 guests