ETHANOL


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GRAPEAPE94
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ETHANOL

Postby GRAPEAPE94 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:55 pm



I am planning a long trip this summer on my 06 wing and was wondering about the effects of ethanol on my fuel system. Down here in Fl where I fuel up the content is 10% or less. How will a higher content effect my system and fuel economy? I currently get approx. 40mpg on the highway.



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FlyBoy2121
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby FlyBoy2121 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:44 pm

I GRAPEAPE94 :D

From experience talking to my brother says, he had a GL1500, he found that the engine runs smoother, better response in acceleration, mileage for the gallons I do not know, but there must be a small improvement.
In recent months I have noted here in Quebec means to pump 10% ethanol, my car going very well, the motorcycle season here starts in April or May if one is lucky to have little in March I will try my GL1800.

FlyBoy2121 :)

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cbx4evr
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby cbx4evr » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:04 pm

I believe there is a spec. for ethanol content in the Owner's Manual. Seem to recall reading something in mine about it.

For the 1500 there have been issues around the fuel filter which have been attributed to the ethanol in the fuel. 1800 has no filter to worry about.

I'm glad we don't have much ethanol in fuel around here. I don't believe we should be putting the food supply in our tanks.
"It´s a friggen motorcycle, it´s not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you s**t your pants every now and then. "

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dragon2000
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby dragon2000 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:45 pm

I've been running the 10% Enthonal Blend (89 octane) in my Valkyrie for over 8 years and never had a issue. That said, the book states I should be using high test - 91+ which I have to admit I do from time to time.

The only thing I caution you about using Ethanol is that while it burns cleaner, if you have an older machine it will clean any grime thats in the fuel tank, lines, carbs if present, etc. A couple of friends filled up older vehicles with it that were carbs that weren't looked after and had problems later as it cleaned out the whole fuel system. That said if you vehicle has been maintained it shouldn't be an issue.

Steve
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Red Ron
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby Red Ron » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:35 pm

I am glad to see a few people on this board like it; maybe there is hope. On all of other boards I have read probably 200-300 posts and they were all 100% negative. All indicated that their MPG went down. In some cases it is 2 or 3 cents less per gallon but it costs more if you figure in the loss of MPG. I also know that it is heck on the marine industry and damages a lot of engines. It also is less than ideal for weedeaters, and lawnmowers.

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coy55boy
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby coy55boy » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:28 pm

Everything I've heard or read about ethanol additive to gasoline is negative. We have one station in town that provides the E85 fuel (having up to 85% ethanol). To begin with, a vehicle has to be specially equipped to burn this fuel. Which tells me it is NOT the same as gasoline. Ethanol may be combustible enough to be used in small amounts with gasoline, but it is certainly not as effective. My Dad bought a truck that was E85 equipped. He found that even though the fuel was 10 to 15 cents less per gallon than gas, his fuel economy plummeted from around 17 or 18 mpg (in town) to around 11 or 12 mpg. He said that it ran just as well, but obviously the cost savings aren't there. And having to stop to refuel more often is another handicap. Couple that with the fact that food prices rise because now there is a greater demand for the product and it seems to me to be a losing proposition all around.

Now, I'm all in favor of developing renewable fuel resources. I just don't believe this is the way to go. Like many other things our government does, this was brought about more for political favor than for environmentally or economically sound reasons. I personally think more people should ride motorcycles...Better fuel economy, less traffic congestion, better awareness of the environment, fewer people being otherwise preoccupied while driving (cell phones, texting, eating, putting on makeup, etc.) and more smiles per mile all around!

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thrasherg
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby thrasherg » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:57 pm

My biggest beef with Ethanol additive is where the ethanol comes from, if it is from corn it takes as much energy to create as you get out (Energy in = energy out) so there is net gain and the corn could have been used to feed other living things. In the case of sugar cane, you get 8 times more energy from the ethanol than it takes to create the ethanol so it's a clear win for the environment. Unfortunately most of the ethanol used in the USA seems to come from corn so it's a marketing con by the government rather than a real help for the planet/environment..

I think you will find E85 fuel is 15% ethanol not 85% ethanol, most gasoline fuels contain 10% ethanol today. When you get to levels above 10% you need special fuel hoses to cope with the ethanol, and the engine needs some clever tricks to run well, E85 will not work on most older vehicles and the cost of modifying the vehicles to use it is prohibitive for most people. Common sense and some education about Ethanol fuels is really required for the public so that we can make the right decision for the environment.

Gary

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coy55boy
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby coy55boy » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:57 pm

Gary,

Yes, most gas available out here in the west has up to 15% ethanol (depends on the time of year). But, the E85 is an 85% ethanol fuel as I indicated in my post that my Dad's truck was specially equipped for it. Here's a Wiki article about E85. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

GRAPEAPE94
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby GRAPEAPE94 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:49 pm

As I stated earlier the Ethonal content down here is 10%. I know to avoid E85, but how about 15 or 20%? Will that effect my system in any way?

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coy55boy
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby coy55boy » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:08 pm

Grape, I doubt that you'll have any issues using the higher ethanol fuel mixes. I've never had any trouble with it. I live in Arizona and we have for several years had 15% ethanol during the winter months. It may decrease fuel efficiency by a small amount, but it's hardly noticeable. I certainly wouldn't cancel a ride due to it. Just get out there and ride!

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thrasherg
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby thrasherg » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:29 pm

Guys, if you do a google search there are several sites highly recomending against using 15% ethanol as it does destroy the older fuel lines which where not designed for it.. You should be careful, I suspect the odd tank full would not do much harm, but regular fill ups with 15% ethanol will have your carbs/injectors getting clogged with bits of semi dissolved fuel line, and will eventually lead to a fuel leak...

Gary

deadeye
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby deadeye » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:06 pm

IN MN. we have been running ethonol for many years with no problems. If you have a motor that has never been mantained or cleaned you may clean out/ put on new filters. On mantained motors you will have no problems and I am not afraid of 15% ethonol either.

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pau7220
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby pau7220 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:56 pm

Gary is incorrect...... E85 is 85% Ethanol....... The only reason they add the 15% Gasoline is so you can't drink it!!!!! This is fact!! Stick with what you're engines & fuel systems were designed for...... Unleaded gasoline. It's just too bad we can't avoid the 10% ethanol they throw in. NOTE: If you see a small country gas station, you may actually be able to purchase 100% Regular Gasoline.... It is marketed for small engines and old farm equipment.Too bad the Avation Gas has lead which will kill our Cats & O2 Sensors.

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SilverHawk
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby SilverHawk » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:25 pm

I recently purchased a 2011 Honda Accord (6 cylinder model), and the owner's manual specifically states not to use E-85. I don't use E-85 in my GL-1800 for the same reason either. Don't remember if the GL-1800 owners manual specifically states not to use the E-85 or not, but I have heard on the internet that you aren't supposed to use it on your Goldwing. (so it must be true eh). :D :D :D

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GreenDragon
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby GreenDragon » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:36 pm

From everything I have read, it takes a gallon of refined oil to produce a gallon of corn based ethanol. If this is true (I am no chemist and have to go off what I read) then where is the savings for the environment and we lose that amount of corn to feed us. I see it as a lose - lose situation. The only ones that win are the corn growers and refiners. The (our) government pays the farmer not to grow corn, what they do grow sells at inflated prices, and it leaves the food chain while demanding the production and use of oil, just not in our motorcycles. Something is wrong here!
Light travels faster than sound, that is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!

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thrasherg
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby thrasherg » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:27 pm

GreenDragon wrote:From everything I have read, it takes a gallon of refined oil to produce a gallon of corn based ethanol. If this is true (I am no chemist and have to go off what I read) then where is the savings for the environment and we lose that amount of corn to feed us. I see it as a lose - lose situation. The only ones that win are the corn growers and refiners. The (our) government pays the farmer not to grow corn, what they do grow sells at inflated prices, and it leaves the food chain while demanding the production and use of oil, just not in our motorcycles. Something is wrong here!


That was exactly my point at the beginning of this topic.. It's dumb to use Corn to create Ethanol.. Sugar cane is 8x more efficient and that makes sense, the only one winning in this scenario is the farmer growing corn, it does nothing for the environment..

Gary

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GreenDragon
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby GreenDragon » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:56 pm

Thank you!! I feel like I am the only one out here that thinks this way. I am glad someone agrees.
Light travels faster than sound, that is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!

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GreenDragon
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby GreenDragon » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:03 pm

Plus, I have checked my mileage between the two, 10% ethanol and straight gasoline. My miles/gallon dropped significantly when using the ethanol, about 4 to 4.5 miles per gallon. I have no way of measuring the power out put between the two, but the "seat of my pants" dyno tells me I have less power with the ethanol. Could be all mental, but it is to me, what it appears to me, to be.
JMHO
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pau7220
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby pau7220 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:08 pm

GreenDragon wrote:Plus, I have checked my mileage between the two, 10% ethanol and straight gasoline. JMHO



Where are you getting your "straight gasoline"? I have yet to find a pump without a 10% sticker....... except for the small country stations that say "No Ethanol".

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GreenDragon
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby GreenDragon » Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:24 pm

I guess I should have covered that in my post. The location was, (key word "was") located in southeast Indiana, along the Ohio River, near Rising Sun. They now carry only ethanol laced fuel. I have not been able to find any other.
Light travels faster than sound, that is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!

deadeye
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby deadeye » Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:55 am

We have been using ethonol in every gas motor on our farm for over ten years with no problems ever related to fuel. They range from 1958 tractors to trimmers, chainsaws, lawnmowers , motorcycles and trucks.

And yes I sell corn to a ethonol plant because farmers have never been able to get a fair price for corn when sold for food. Before corn was used for ethonol we pettery much had to depend on goverment payments to keep cheap food on the table. In the past 5 years we have not had a goverment payment because of the low price of corn. Also note very little of the food you buy in a store comes from the corn that is used for ethonol and over 1/3 of the corn used in ethonol production goes back out for feed or food use, only the starch is used for ethonol production. Ethonol production has aslso become much more efficiant over the last few years. Farmers got tied of working for nothing and watching everyone else prosper from their hard work so they looked for a new use for their over production of corn. And for that I make no apology!

Where would the gas price be if we did not have ethonol supplying around 8 to 9% of our nations gas? When is the last time their was a new refinery built?

From a peer reviewed study form Nebraska U;
[The ethanol industry currently is producing a fuel that is 48 to 59 percent lower in direct effect lifecycle greenhouse gas emisions than gasoline. That's two to three times the reduction reported in earlier studies that did not take into account recent advances in corn-ethanol production.
The net energy ration, which averaged 1.2 to 1 in earlier studies, is 1.5 - 1.8 to 1 in the recent research, Cassman said. That means that for every unit of energy it takes to make ethanol, 1.5 - 1.8 units of energy are produced as ethanol.
Even more striking is the corn ethanol's potential to replace oil. This new study estimates that 10-19 gallons of ethanol are produced for every gallon of petroleum used in the entire corn-ethanol production life cycle. The range in the ethanol-oil replacement value, as well as the ranges measured for net energy efficiency and GHG emissions reduction, are due to differences in crop management practices and ethanol plant performance.]

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GreenDragon
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby GreenDragon » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:33 pm

I do not doubt a word of what you say. My complaint is government intervention.
I am a firm believer that anything the government supports is a mistake. The government should not be in the farm business. They should also not be in the business of education, foreign aid, gun control or many other regulatory businesses. If you can't make a living growing and selling corn, then you need to do something else. I have had to change occupations several times. I did not get any government subsides. When I was in construction in the late 70's and early 80's, the market went in the toilet. I found something else to do. I did not get subsidies.
Yes, we need farmers. I am not one. We buy our beef, pork, chicken, eggs, lamb and produce from local growers whenever possible. We do grow some vegetables in a small quantity. Fresh fish is a little harder to come by, but when possible, it is local also. We just bought a side of beef and the price went up considerably, due to the increase in the cost of feed. I am willing to pay the price for locally grown food and produce. If they have to charge more to me in order to make a living, so be it.
I also realize the possible benefits of not polluting our atmosphere. But burning oil and gas to produce ethanol is counter productive.
I have never had a mechanical problem develop due to the use of ethanol laced fuel. I use it in my lawn tractor, chain saws, splitter, weed eaters and lawn mowers. The Kubota tractor uses diesel. It just reduces the gas mileage and possibly the power, I can not prove the last statement about power, it just feels that way.
From everything I read and see on the news there is a world wide shortage of food. How can there be a shortage of food and yet you can't make a living growing it. The grocery stores are full of $2.50 to $3.00 artichokes, tomatoes are skyrocketing, many other items are rapidly increasing in cost. Somebody is doing something wrong if they depend on the government to pay them subsidies to grow food and then accept money from the government to not grow food, leaving fields fallow.
When did we get the notion that the government owes us an income? Let the free market work.
Watch the video of Milton Freidman on the Phil Donohue show 31 years ago.
Sorry about the rant! JMHO
Light travels faster than sound, that is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak!

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pau7220
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby pau7220 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:40 pm

Doesn't matter if it runs cleaner or helps the farmers......... Fact is..... It's bad for engines and fuel systems in the long run....... That's what this post was about. Anyone's gas guage in their car stop working or working intermittently in the past couple of years? How about an in-tank fuel pump? Guess what caused it........ Ethanol.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/ethanol_pro ... amage.html

bamadave
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby bamadave » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:07 pm

I am posting a link for Ethanol-Free Gas Stations.
Just click on your state at the bottom for towns and stations.




http://pure-gas.org/

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luckychucky60
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Re: ETHANOL

Postby luckychucky60 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:24 pm

I'm going outside now to add Starbrite enzymes to my tank. Just incase I get any funky gas.


As long as I have my health then everything will be ok


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