Stubbor fork Allen screw


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harkgold
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Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby harkgold » Tue Apr 03, 2012 8:21 pm



Meeeeeee Agaaaaaain.

Back to the fork tubes again on my '84 GL1200 Interstate.

I am trying to remove the allen bolt that is located at the very bottom of the slider and fits within the axle clamp. This allen is covered by the axle when the axel is installed.

I presently have the slider mounted vertically in my vice with this allen bolt pointing up. I sprayed the allen head with Blaster PB penetrating oil last night and let it set over night.

This morning I tried to budge it with an allen wrench and I even put a little leverage on it by overlapping the allen with closed end of a box end wrench and with this added leverage I still cannot get this allen bolt to budge. I can see the allen wrench actually flexing and I'm afraid that if I really force it that I might strip out the allen head on the bolt. I've even tried giving the head of the bolt a few good taps with a hammer and punch.
I'm wondering if it is ok to apply a little heat to this area, and if so should I remove the near by Trac Anti-Dive unit first since there appears to be rubber gaskets and boots on this unit that could be damaged.

Thanks again!

Harkgold



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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby D2D » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:15 am

I'd keep trying the penetrating oil and see if you can give that bolt a little twist in the tightening direction. Sometimes attempting to tighten a stuck bolt will break some of the corrosion holding it and allow you to get it to move enough to loosen or get some penetrating oil down into the threads. I can't comment on applying heat, I'd have to see a picture of what is there.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:19 am

I have this impact driver that I use for stubborn fasteners:



It has a 3/8" hex socket that accepts any 3/8" bit, and I have a set of bits that include hex (allen key) bits.

You twist the ring to "loosen" (you can also use it to tighten, or perhaps to loosen left hand thread fasteners), put the bit securely in the fastener, then whack the end of the driver with a heavy hammer. I have yet to find a fastener that it doesn't loosen on the first whack.

What's great, especially with philips screws, is that because the force of the hammer is also forcing the bit INTO the fastener at the same time as it's rotating left, it can't hop out and strip the fastener head. I have several times had a stuck Philips screw whose head I managed to strip out a bit trying to get it loose with a screwdriver. I put this driver into it, give it one whack, and the screw comes free, undamaged.

I think it's the sudden WHACK that jars the fastener free - just like an pneumatic impact wrench easily loosens lug nuts that take a huge strain to try to do by hand - and it's much less stress on the piece being worked on as well.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby thrasherg » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:27 am

I would also suggest wingadmins approach, I suspect the heat will be absorbed by the fork leg and never reach the bolt thread, you will probably have more success with an impact driver with an allen key fitted.. I use an air impact at home, but you might not have such a luxury so a good old impact driver as in WingAdmins photo would be best.

Gary

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:25 pm

Using a hand driven impact sounds good to me too.I've got the air impact tools,but I just like whacking on things. :)

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:23 pm

I too have a pneumatic impact wrench, but putting 700 ft-lbs of torque into a little fastener doesn't seem like a good idea to me. :) It also doesn't have the benefit of the simultaneous push into the fastener that the manual hammer-driven one does.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby mbuesing » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:08 pm

I had the same prob. with my sons 76 KZ400. The forks had not been apart ever.
I use a impact driver for all engine screws on older bikes. (don't even try a screwdriver first)
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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby harkgold » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:49 pm

mbuesing wrote:I had the same prob. with my sons 76 KZ400. The forks had not been apart ever.
I use a impact driver for all engine screws on older bikes. (don't even try a screwdriver first)


Is there any chance this is a reverse threaded bolt?
Harkgold

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby 2008retiredplb » Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:38 am

WingAdmin wrote:I have this impact driver that I use for stubborn fasteners:

Impact driver.jpg


It has a 3/8" hex socket that accepts any 3/8" bit, and I have a set of bits that include hex (allen key) bits.

You twist the ring to "loosen" (you can also use it to tighten, or perhaps to loosen left hand thread fasteners), put the bit securely in the fastener, then whack the end of the driver with a heavy hammer. I have yet to find a fastener that it doesn't loosen on the first whack.

What's great, especially with philips screws, is that because the force of the hammer is also forcing the bit INTO the fastener at the same time as it's rotating left, it can't hop out and strip the fastener head. I have several times had a stuck Philips screw whose head I managed to strip out a bit trying to get it loose with a screwdriver. I put this driver into it, give it one whack, and the screw comes free, undamaged.

I think it's the sudden WHACK that jars the fastener free - just like an pneumatic impact wrench easily loosens lug nuts that take a huge strain to try to do by hand - and it's much less stress on the piece being worked on as well.



You can get the impact driver at Habor Freight and it is not to expensive. You will not believe how well it works.

I would not use heat as it could damage the metal. If it is aluminum, it acts much differently than steel when heated. If you get it to hot, it turns to liquid and unless you are experenced in working with it I wouldn't try it.
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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:14 pm

WingAdmin wrote:I have this impact driver that I use for stubborn fasteners:

Impact driver.jpg


It has a 3/8" hex socket that accepts any 3/8" bit, and I have a set of bits that include hex (allen key) bits.

You twist the ring to "loosen" (you can also use it to tighten, or perhaps to loosen left hand thread fasteners), put the bit securely in the fastener, then whack the end of the driver with a heavy hammer. I have yet to find a fastener that it doesn't loosen on the first whack.

What's great, especially with philips screws, is that because the force of the hammer is also forcing the bit INTO the fastener at the same time as it's rotating left, it can't hop out and strip the fastener head. I have several times had a stuck Philips screw whose head I managed to strip out a bit trying to get it loose with a screwdriver. I put this driver into it, give it one whack, and the screw comes free, undamaged.

I think it's the sudden WHACK that jars the fastener free - just like an pneumatic impact wrench easily loosens lug nuts that take a huge strain to try to do by hand - and it's much less stress on the piece being worked on as well.



I used to use this for getting stubborn Phillips head screws out of the older type vw rabbit and gulf and some Honda brake rotors. it works very well for that. we used to call it a "mechanic's little helper".

stuart.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:16 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Using a hand driven impact sounds good to me too.I've got the air impact tools,but I just like whacking on things. :)


lol, make sure you keep your thumbs out of the way, (ask me how I know this :oops:).

stuart.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:20 pm

D2D wrote:I'd keep trying the penetrating oil and see if you can give that bolt a little twist in the tightening direction. Sometimes attempting to tighten a stuck bolt will break some of the corrosion holding it and allow you to get it to move enough to loosen or get some penetrating oil down into the threads. I can't comment on applying heat, I'd have to see a picture of what is there.


heat + oil = FIRE. I wouldn't recommend using heat anywhere near the "oil filled" fork tubes period. not only that, but it also might ruin what ever rubber seals, boots and or grommets that are close to it.

stuart.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:29 pm

[quote="harkgold"]Meeeeeee Agaaaaaain.

Back to the fork tubes again on my '84 GL1200 Interstate.

I am trying to remove the allen bolt that is located at the very bottom of the slider and fits within the axle clamp. This allen is covered by the axle when the axel is installed.

I presently have the slider mounted vertically in my vice with this allen bolt pointing up. I sprayed the allen head with Blaster PB penetrating oil last night and let it set over night.

This morning I tried to budge it with an allen wrench and I even put a little leverage on it by overlapping the allen with closed end of a box end wrench and with this added leverage I still cannot get this allen bolt to budge. I can see the allen wrench actually flexing and I'm afraid that if I really force it that I might strip out the allen head on the bolt. I've even tried giving the head of the bolt a few good taps with a hammer and punch.
I'm wondering if it is ok to apply a little heat to this area, and if so should I remove the near by Trac Anti-Dive unit first since there appears to be rubber gaskets and boots on this unit that could be damaged.

Thanks again!

heat + oil = FIRE. I wouldn't recommend using heat anywhere near the "oil filled" fork tubes period. not only that, but enough heat could cause the oil filled fork tube to explode and hurt your or someone else that's standing anywhere near it and it also might ruin what ever rubber seals, boots and or grommets that are close to it.

stuart.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:41 pm

roadwanderer2 wrote:
D2D wrote:I'd keep trying the penetrating oil and see if you can give that bolt a little twist in the tightening direction. Sometimes attempting to tighten a stuck bolt will break some of the corrosion holding it and allow you to get it to move enough to loosen or get some penetrating oil down into the threads. I can't comment on applying heat, I'd have to see a picture of what is there.


heat + oil = FIRE. I wouldn't recommend using heat anywhere near the "oil filled" fork tubes period. not only that, but it also might ruin what ever rubber seals, boots and or grommets that are close to it.

stuart.


When I am talking heat, I'm not talking open flame, torch kind of heat - more like heat gun kind of heat, nowhere near the flashpoint of oil. The idea is to gradually heat up the bolt as well as the metal it is seated in.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:52 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
roadwanderer2 wrote:
D2D wrote:I'd keep trying the penetrating oil and see if you can give that bolt a little twist in the tightening direction. Sometimes attempting to tighten a stuck bolt will break some of the corrosion holding it and allow you to get it to move enough to loosen or get some penetrating oil down into the threads. I can't comment on applying heat, I'd have to see a picture of what is there.


heat + oil = FIRE. I wouldn't recommend using heat anywhere near the "oil filled" fork tubes period. not only that, but it also might ruin what ever rubber seals, boots and or grommets that are close to it.

stuart.


When I am talking heat, I'm not talking open flame, torch kind of heat - more like heat gun kind of heat, nowhere near the flashpoint of oil. The idea is to gradually heat up the bolt as well as the metal it is seated in.


if you heat up the bolt, the only thing its going to do is possibly make it expand inside the threads and get stuck. you have to get the outside hot first. I might be way off the mark on this but I was thinking that he wanted to heat up the end of the fork tube to try to remove the Allen bolt. see, when I had a broken exhaust manifold stud and had to remove what was left, providing there was something to grab onto, I would use a torch to heat up the outside of the manifold ear getting it almost white hot, then using a bolt extractor to slowly remove the broken stud. worked 9 out of ten times. not sure if a heat gun will get it hot enough to get the alien screw out, but its worth a shot. using an e z out or drilling it out and re tapping the hole would be my next 2 choices. if its an aluminum bolt it should drill out very easily.

stuart.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:05 pm

The method I use is to gradually heat up the whole thing - the bolt as well as whatever it is the bolt is seized into. Then, using a "freeze spray" or even just an ice cube, rapidly cool the bolt. This causes the bolt to contract, while the hot metal of the area the bolt is threaded into remains expanded. At that point you then extract the bolt.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby roadwanderer2 » Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:21 pm

WingAdmin wrote:The method I use is to gradually heat up the whole thing - the bolt as well as whatever it is the bolt is seized into. Then, using a "freeze spray" or even just an ice cube, rapidly cool the bolt. This causes the bolt to contract, while the hot metal of the area the bolt is threaded into remains expanded. At that point you then extract the bolt.


in theory that should work although I've never seen it done. shrinking the bolt away from the threads as it were. not bad.

stuart.

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Re: Stubbor fork Allen screw

Postby Dogsled » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:27 pm

Do you have the tube off? If so (actually take it out of the tree anpull the dust cover so you can set the the bottom leg firmly on a vice/piece of wood or whatever and buy the tool they showed...........after a few hours of PB blaster (not WD-40 the lubricant) wap that mofo and it'll break loose. KEY have a tight fitting allen.....not some cheap crap HF one. I have used this same tool to break loose many a brake shoe allen after drilling and re-tapping a caliper. If you don't do this type work alot, pull the tube and take it to a garage that would have high quality equipment. A few bucks and they'd break it loose. Big truck places seem to do more favors for little things like that than your local garage. Professional tools are amazing.......expensive but amazing.


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