starter button


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Dogsled
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starter button

Postby Dogsled » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:32 am



I wrote a while back in a sticking button post that my starter switch button caused and issue. let me run thru it again. I started the bike and rode it for miles before realizing I had no headlights. (NOTE; when the starter is engaged the headlight shut off for full power to the starter.) evidently the button didn't quite release enough and the lights didn't come on, simple gentle pull back on the starter button and the lights came on. I sprayed them with electronic cleaner (externally) and seems well. I was at theplaza facing a big window for reflection and started to 'gently jiggle' the staer after it was running and the (head) lights went off and on. I got 2 questions....maybe three
1; Are these headlights (that drain quite a bit of juice) run thru a dinky by-pass switch in the starter?
2; Seeing that it was just a gentle jiggle in and out (not even affecting the starter and the lights were going off and on) is this contact subject to wear and eventual failure. It just didn't seem like a cleaning issue because I was barely moving the switch.
3; has anybody ever needed to change a switch because of this issue.....and i'm sure if it breaks on the road, there's no bypass
4; alternative; a nice set of halogen running light switched seperatley til repair can be done.

I guess for an older bike if this is the only problem you run across on an older bike you're batting 1000. Also, did your brakdown of cleaning switches show the starter button?


"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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virgilmobile
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Re: starter button

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:46 am

Generally the dual contact switches are reliable,however I have had to disassemble them to resurface the contact area.
Also the entire amount of current for the headlights has to go through the switch.This is the cause of the failure.
What I did on my Gl1000 was to disconnect the 2 wires for the headlight circuit from the switch,attach them to a 30 amp relay normally closed contacts,then use the starter circuit from the start relay to trigger the headlight relay off when starting.
If I lost you I can draw up a diagram.

Dogsled
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Re: starter button

Postby Dogsled » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm

Is there a way to read or find what the original contact switch was able to carry as far as voltage and what reading an older model switch has 'deteriorated to? Your saying a bit of cleanup after a full dis-assembly is gonna be the best way to handle peak performance? See, what I was feeling was wear in the plastic switch itself by being able to move it, shutting it off and on so easily. Not necessarily contacts.

I like the old school headlight switch, seperate, in this new situation, enclosed to perform well ALL the time. The longer these bikes run the more the flaws are going to come out of dual switch purpose items. I prefer to know my lites are hooked to switch A and I know what I have is reliable (everything breaks but I like to know where to go to!

Virgil, I'd like to see your drawings if you can make them up and hopefully they transfer over to a 1500. We need to strat simplifying these harnesess if we plan on keeping them as touring bikes

Do the 1100 and i'll compare it to what I have and see how easily adaptable between year......now this is the type of 'highmileage 'motor' bike' wiring modifications that are gonna keep us off the side of the road at the mercy of hot young babes headed to spring break

There are alot of iffy things that could make us go bump in the night when we have a long ride

I do want you to know one thing, I am no way whatsoever intersted in keeping my bike pristene stock.....it is a ridin bike like my harley were and I screwed them all up driving crazy.

If you wanna wax you bie and make it a colectors item, god bless you. I don't......I just want my scoot to start
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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virgilmobile
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Re: starter button

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:14 pm

by Dogsled » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:15 pm
Is there a way to read or find what the original contact switch was able to carry as far as voltage and what reading an older model switch has 'deteriorated to?
***The original start switch contacts had to be rated to carry 12 volts and 5 amp to light the high beam headlight***

Your saying a bit of cleanup after a full dis-assembly is gonna be the best way to handle peak performance? See, what I was feeling was wear in the plastic switch itself by being able to move it, shutting it off and on so easily. Not necessarily contacts.
***The plastic usually doesn't wear near as much as the contacts get contaminated,causing resistance and overheating,burning and pitting.Cleaning the contact area will restore it to the factory specs.Cleaning the grunge from the mechanism will also help.****

I'm all for modifying a circuit to make it more dependable but usually after all possible original equipment pieces won't do the job.
Remember,that switch has been working for many years.
The gl1500 uses relays to switch on the headlights,so much of the current draw has been removed from the switch.I found only contamination and dirt in mine,no contact damage,eg.burnt or pitting.

The best mod for the gl1000,1100,and 1200 for the headlight is like the pix.This uses 2 30 amp relays,ont to switch between hi/lo beam and the other turns the power off during cranking.
It utilizes only one switch on the bikes original setup and provides more power for the light via a #10 wire.

Dogsled
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Re: starter button

Postby Dogsled » Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:41 pm

Interesting statement that 'so much current draw has been removed in the 1500 with the relays. Is this drop recorded that you were ablr to make this assesment and HOW did you make it. Listen brother, I'm not judgeing just asking a question. I am just trying to assure my upcomining trip leaves me with traceable possibilities for problems. I'm getting short on time and this is a glitch I don't need to face without facts. Let me trackdown a 1500 wiring schematic and hope the 'strat' button isn't inadvertently tied into thin somehow.. Thanks, schematics aren't my thing because they usually lead to other issues, but i'll document. Thanks for the factory info
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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virgilmobile
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Re: starter button

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:15 pm

It's now a common practice to use relays to operate large current demanding devices,cars included.
The relays controls large current demands rather than rely on small wires and tiny switches that degrade over use.
The 1500 uses a small #24 wires to operate the relays.They have the large #12 wire to handle the power.
The 1100 and 1200 used no relays,just the 2 switches to get power to the headlamp,thus the mod or upgrade to them.

Dogsled
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Re: starter button

Postby Dogsled » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:49 pm

Explain this, I got lost;
The 1500 uses a small #24 wires to operate the relays.They have the large #12 wire to handle the power. (in between this is the switch?)


The original question is the degredation of the voltage difference to the switch causing arc......whatever damage to i'm experiencing right now
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: starter button

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Apr 17, 2012 3:16 pm

No.the 1500 uses a small,low current wire from the switch to operate the relay.The relay contacts have the larger wires to operate the power hungry lights.
This was done because the 1500 has 2@ 55watt headlights and the small dual contact start switch just couldn't handle that much current.
On the 1000,1100,and 1200,there is only one lamp thus the switch was just big enough.

Your loss of volts is due to a bad switch.Either from a mechanical misalignment(stuck halfway) or age has contaminated the copper pads allowing some resistance,heating,arcing etc.The original design is sufficient if the contacts remain clean and have good spring tension.This goes for both of them.

Actually every switch is capable of failing due to age and use,even the 1500 ones.
I took apart my kill switch just for a look see.It was still working but it was obvious that a 24 year old switch needed to be cleaned up.just preventive maintenance.

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WingAdmin
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Re: starter button

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:00 pm

The use of relays also saves money and weight, as thinner copper wires can be run for the controls, while thicker wires are run just for the actual devices requiring the current.

Of course, if, as in Honda's case, you locate all of the relays at the back of the bike, it actually ends up requiring MORE wire. Oh well.

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Ed Z
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Re: starter button

Postby Ed Z » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:00 pm

On every Honda I have owned (several) one of the first things I do is open the bike up as much as feasible then clean and lube each and every wiring connector and switch it has... This is a couple days project but I have found it to be required sooner or later on most of the switches... Rather than deal with failures while riding and dealing with each one separately, I just go at em all at once and then ride trouble free for years to come... Do only use a plastic safe contact cleaner and also find really good terminal grease... Failure to do so will yield at the least a repeat operation down the road, or at worst damage to the switches (costly)...

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glasshead
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Re: starter button

Postby glasshead » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:24 pm

10:00 at night and I was just going to take my 1100 down the street to get some milk. Turned on the ignition switch, and no lights. Funny thing that the latest post I see is on headlights.

I got excited thinking that if I went back out and wiggled the starter button, I would have lights. No such luck. I thought I had this problem before (getting old is not always fun),and I took the seat off and wiggled some wires, or plugged and unplugged something and they came back. But after this time it did nothing.

When I turn the key I get a double click at the bright /dim switch. There is a click, half second and another click, and I can feel it in the handle bar.

Advice please.

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mrtwowheel
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Re: starter button

Postby mrtwowheel » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:50 pm

glasshead wrote:10:00 at night and I was just going to take my 1100 down the street to get some milk. Turned on the ignition switch, and no lights. Funny thing that the latest post I see is on headlights.

I got excited thinking that if I went back out and wiggled the starter button, I would have lights. No such luck. I thought I had this problem before (getting old is not always fun),and I took the seat off and wiggled some wires, or plugged and unplugged something and they came back. But after this time it did nothing.

When I turn the key I get a double click at the bright /dim switch. There is a click, half second and another click, and I can feel it in the handle bar.

Advice please.



The original poster (owner) of this thread has a dirty, corroded, tarnished and carboned up starter button. The starter button turns the headlight off and on, think about it. You have a dirty, corroded, tarnished and carboned up Hi-Lo switch, think about it. Both of these switches are probably cleanable, not a hard job, just very small parts. The connections that are made inside of these switches are smaller than the head of a pin. So it doesn't take much to stop these contacts from having good connections with each other.

Scott

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Ed Z
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1983 gl650 Intersta

Re: starter button

Postby Ed Z » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:08 pm

With care and a good pair of magnifying glasses ya can open up just about every switch that Honda used... I have taken to working over a large cake pan with a rag or paper towel lining the bottom of it... Should a spring fly out the rag often prevents it from flying out of the pan... Take your time and take note of how the wiring is routed in the handlebar mount... With a good cleaning these switches usually work like new afterwards...

As for the intermittent headlight issue on the 1100, check the fuse block area for a hairline crack in the fuse or a poor (loose) connection in the block... If memory serves this is where mine had issues...

Again folks... If ya want a problem free machine, just commit yourself to a couple days of cleaning switches and connectors and use good terminal grease on em... It's a royal pain in the backside to do em all, but once done you will have virtually zero electrical issues...

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mrtwowheel
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Re: starter button

Postby mrtwowheel » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:37 pm

Even rear brake light switches can be taken apart and cleaned, lubed and sealed. Talk about small parts!!!! I really get off on fixing these switches and other electrics, yeah weird, but it's very enjoyable for me.

Scott

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glasshead
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Re: starter button

Postby glasshead » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:32 pm

What color is the wire for the head light? Is it among the half dozen that run across the real gas tank under the seat?

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glasshead
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Re: starter button

Postby glasshead » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:36 pm

I solved my headlight problem. It turned out to be a combination of two things. I cleaned the clamps on the fuse box by lightly filing the clips until they were shiny. That gave me bright lights, but not dim (or dim but not bright ?). When I moved the dim/bright light switch back and forth, I got both to flash on and off once or twice, but then only the one worked. (So I knew it wasn't the headlight.) I had taken the dim/bright switch apart earlier and cleaned the contacts, but that hadn't helped. Since switching to bright turned the light off and switching back to dim turned it on, it had to be that there wasn't contact being made. I took the switch apart again and took the half inch contact tab out that slides over the three stationary contacts points. I built the surface up with a little solder, filed it flat and put it all back together. Bingo. I now have my bright AND dim lights back.

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Ed Z
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Re: starter button

Postby Ed Z » Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:00 pm

Cool... good fix....

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rachester67
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Re: starter button

Postby rachester67 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:27 pm

I know this thread is talking about the older bikes but my 2012 just experienced a similar situation. Start switch causing issue with no headlights.




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