ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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hemi-roid
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ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby hemi-roid » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:41 pm



1200, 1500 & 1800 Goldwings have alternators. 1200's are two piece. 1500 & 1800's have a one piece alternator like an automobile. These alternators are composed of a stator or stationary windings, a rotor that spins inside the stator. A voltage regulator that sets the maxium voltage the brushes are housed in the regulator assembly. A rectifier that changes the AC voltage produced to DC voltage. There is a large front bearing and a small rear bearing that ride in the front and rear cases. It is driven by a "T" shaped drive impeller, that fits in another impeller inside the engine cushioned by four rubber dampers. There is a "O" ring and a seal for oil control.



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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:17 pm

Yup...real close...
The 1000,1100 and the 1200 do not have a alternator.
The 1500 and up do in fact have a alternator.

The difference between them...

The 1000-1200 have a fixed stator winding that has magnets spinning around it.
It produces 3 phase AC that is rectified and shunt regulated by a external device.

The 1500,1800 have no magnets and thus use the regulator to control the stator output by varying the current going to the field coil.How strong the field is magnetized.

The spinning field coil becomes the magnet part.(the 1000-1200 have no spinning field coil,just magnets)
This regulator control varies the magnetic field and proportionally varies the stator output.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby hemi-roid » Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:02 pm

alternator (ôltr-ntr)
An electric generator that produces alternating current. The generator's coil is rotated (by a turbine, motor, or other power source), and its circular path causes it to cut cross a magnetic field (set up by strong magnets), first in one direction, then the other, with each cycle. The electric potential induced in the coil by this motion thus alternates between positive and negative once with each cycle, resulting in alternating current. See more at induction.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:17 pm

You Websters dictionary is correct for the 1500 and later that have a conventional alternator charging system.

My point is only that this does not apply to the gl1000 through the gl1200 charging system either in design or electrical operation.Although each has the same result.

By your own definition... "The generator's(alternator's) coil is rotated (by a turbine, motor, or other power source), and its circular path causes it to cut cross a magnetic field"..negates these bikes as they do not have a rotating coil that develops any magnetism to be induced into the stator winding.

"We" simply call it "the charging system" because the exact terminology..." Permanent magnet AC generator"... is a bit long and hard to remember.
It's much easier to say "the stator and regulator"

This is why we describe it's parts rather than the English word for it's function.

Many call it the alternator because of the familiarity of the term.And those who are interested do understand what it refers to.

The "charging system" on the bike has a "stator and a rectifier/regulator"....The 1500/1800 have a alternator.A completely different animal.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby hemi-roid » Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:30 am

In principle, any AC electrical generator can be called an alternator, but usually the term refers to small rotating machines driven by automotive and other internal combustion engines. An alternator that uses a permanent magnet for its magnetic field is called a magneto.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:19 pm

Yes sir.
I also keep a electron consuming, photon generating, filament device in my trunk. :D

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby dingdong » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:11 am

virgilmobile wrote:Yes sir.
I also keep a electron consuming, photon generating, filament device in my trunk. :D


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

hemi-roid, might I ask, is there a point to your tutorial? :? ;)
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby trike lady » Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:37 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Yes sir.
I also keep a electron consuming, photon generating, filament device in my trunk. :D

Sounds like a light bulb. :idea:
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:39 pm

That's a really good word for it.hmmmm..I'll have to remember that one :lol:
Now I won't have to go in pursuit of a untamed Ornithoid in a desperate search of the proper terminology for something.I'll just ask you :D

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby Old Fogey » Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:51 pm

Weeelll, to trow more fuel on the fire. ...........:twisted:

Back in the 60s when we first changed from dynamos (remember them?) to an alternating current generator, the Lucas ones we first had had a fixed stator and a rotating magnet inside that on the end of the crankshaft, with the current rectified by a Zener Diode (remember them too?).

We always called it an alternator.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby RoadRogue » Sat Jul 14, 2012 10:44 pm

Hemi-roid,while you may not be wrong, calling the charging system on the 1200 ( therefore the 1000-1100) and 1500-1800 an alternator is like saying that a sealed beam,a halogen and HID headlights are lightbulbs . They do the same thing but are very different devices. You are painting an incomplete and somewhat misleading picture.

I know the difference in the types of charging systems and have worked on all of them over the years,the purpose of these forums is to educate and help each other, your opening post and follow up posts do neither of these and left me wondering just what was the point of that ? :?
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby dingdong » Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:06 am

Where oh where is hemi-roid???

lurker
verb (used without object)
1.
to lie or wait in concealment, as a person in ambush; remain in or around a place secretly or furtively.
2.
to go furtively; slink; steal.
3.
to exist unperceived or unsuspected.
4.
Chiefly Computers. to read or observe an ongoing discussion without participating in it, to start a discussion with the intent to cause controversy as in an Internet newsgroup.
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:30 am

I've decided not to continue the combat of wits about the alternator tutorial issue with an unarmed person.it appears his tutorial is a copy and paste from Internet information. :)
There is a big difference between theorital and actual application.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby hemi-roid » Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:15 am

Tell me where I copied and pasted from. If you go to my website http://mysite.ncnetwork.net/resp3jbj/ you will see I can and have been doing for over five years. I have rebuilt more than 800 1500 alternators. I don't think I am unarmed. I didn't think I would be in a pissing contest for posting something to help out our members, but there is always someone who thinks they know everything about everything. If anyone needs help with alternator problems contact me and I will gladly help.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby Old Fogey » Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:57 am

This has got to be one of the more ridiculous threads I have seen.

Anything that produces an alternating current, in whatever form, internal or external, whether the coils rotate round the magnet or magnet round the coils, is an alternator.

Or perhaps Lucas and all these guys are wrong too:

Vintage Triumph Register - Alternator Conversion
http://www.vtr.org/maintain/alternator/ ... ions.shtml
There are three problems with the Lucas generators and alternators that came with our Triumphs: They are weak, especially at idle. They are expensive to ...
Lucas Triumph Bsa rotor alternator stator bobber chopper No - eBay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...Lu ... ternator...
eBay: Lucas Triumph Bsa rotor alternator stator bobber chopper No Reserve.
Lucas Alternator Stators and Rotors
http://www.burtonbikebits.net/alternators.htm
LU466230 / LU465969 Lucas Alternator Rotor RM14 (3 1/4"OD X 1 3/4" DEEP) Lucas Alternator Stator. 70-4531. Alternator Mounting Ring Triumph Pre Unit ...
Lucas alternator types info here and help required - Triumph Forum ...
http://www.triumphrat.net › ... › Classic, Vintage & Veteran
6 posts - 4 authors - 5 May 2010
Hi all, In investigating possible alternator replacements I found it hard to pinpoint actual specs on the different stators. Therefore I have started.
Shopping results for Lucas triumph alternator

54212006 Lucas Rotor Alternator Triumph Bsa Norton - F
£48.40 used - eBay
Pattern Lucas Alternator Stator Triumph Bsa 47205
£57.50 - eBay - classicparts01
Lucas Alternator Mgb 1.8l 1978-90 Triumph Tr8 3.5
£53.40 - eBay - crank-n-charge
12V LUCAS ALTERNATOR TRIUMPH NORTON BSA MAGNETO ...
http://www.ebay.com/.../i.html?_...LUCA ... +TRIUMPH...
Visit eBay for great deals on a huge selection 12V LUCAS ALTERNATOR TRIUMPH NORTON BSA MAGNETO SPARX. Shop eBay!
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby dingdong » Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:44 am

Well you did return. I didn't think you would. For that I apologize. But I was wondering about your motive. Now I see what the motive is. Why not just say it like it is instead of trying to get in the back door. If you rebuild alternators just say so. I'm sure some of those here with 1500s would like to know about your service. For me, thanks but no thanks!
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 2:16 pm

virgilmobile wrote:I've decided not to continue the combat of wits about the alternator tutorial issue with an unarmed person.it appears his tutorial is a copy and paste from Internet information. :)
There is a big difference between theorital and actual application.


I don't think insults are called for in this venue....and if you're going to accuse someone of cut-and-paste, back it up, don't just accuse and run away.
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby RoadRogue » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:08 pm

hemi-roid wrote:In principle, any AC electrical generator can be called an alternator, but usually the term refers to small rotating machines driven by automotive and other internal combustion engines. An alternator that uses a permanent magnet for its magnetic field is called a magneto.



I had to argue with myself over if I was going to respond to this thread any more, but when it was this easy to check the facts I felt it was nessasary.
While I do appreciate anyones attempts to help and inform, I do take exception to what I percieve as inaccurate information.
Hemi-roid said "Tell me where I copied and pasted from." (copied and pasted from his own post BTW) I will give you a link to where you did just that. 3rd paragraph down, matches the above quoted post word for word.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternator

I am not trying to pick on you or make you feel unwelcome,In fact I see that you do offer a service that would be of interest to many here on the forum, in hindsight maybe you should have led with that info in your opening post, but when I see BS being passed off as fact I will always step in and speak my mind.

I have not found your opening post elsewhere yet but I dont think I have to look any farther. The point has been made. 8-)
Ride safe, Todd
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:19 pm

SteveB123 wrote:
virgilmobile wrote:I've decided not to continue the combat of wits about the alternator tutorial issue with an unarmed person.it appears his tutorial is a copy and paste from Internet information. :)
There is a big difference between theoretical and actual application.


I don't think insults are called for in this venue....and if you're going to accuse someone of cut-and-paste, back it up, don't just accuse and run away.


No insults given,just observation and stating what appeared to be fact.
If the post has information that he would like to share with us then by all means.
How to's,pictures,you know,things like that

The lack of "tutorial" in the "alternator tutorial" post and just textbook description of it's design is of little use and misleading when it includes the 1200 with the 1500 system.

When it comes to repairing the gl1500 alternator and replacing the brushes,replacing the bearings,etc.a tutorial needs to have more information than a description of it's parts
AND the 1200 does not have the same type of charging unit that the 1500 has.
This was my very first response.Clarity is needed.
Some of us are a bit foggy nowdays.
I always thought a "tutorial" should be a "how to repair" information.
If you miss my thought...look at this post..viewtopic.php?f=16&t=12522...

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby hemi-roid » Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:52 pm

If anyone wants a repair manual I wrote on repairing the 1500 alternator or a video I made just contact me. Replacing brushes and bearings is not a rebuild. I also replace the rotor, voltage regulator and whatever else is need. I also test them on my test bench to make sure they are better than new.

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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby SteveB123 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:23 pm

virgilmobile wrote:
SteveB123 wrote:
virgilmobile wrote:I've decided not to continue the combat of wits about the alternator tutorial issue with an unarmed person.it appears his tutorial is a copy and paste from Internet information. :)
There is a big difference between theoretical and actual application.


I don't think insults are called for in this venue....and if you're going to accuse someone of cut-and-paste, back it up, don't just accuse and run away.


No insults given,just observation and stating what appeared to be fact.


Nope.
Saying another member has no wits is an insult.
THAT is a fact.
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby dingdong » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:52 am

hemi-roid wrote:If anyone wants a repair manual I wrote on repairing the 1500 alternator or a video I made just contact me. Replacing brushes and bearings is not a rebuild. I also replace the rotor, voltage regulator and whatever else is need. I also test them on my test bench to make sure they are better than new.


Oh??? If I rebuild my engine do I replace the crank shaft if it isn't needed? I think not! It's still a rebuild.
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby Dogsled » Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:48 pm

You guys REALLY profess to know more about Goldwing alternators than Ken Hemings ???????????????????????
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby Old Fogey » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:08 pm

I think we could all agree that;

The original post could have been better.

The thread quickly got rather pedantic and childish!

That Ken knows his stuff but maybe should have been a bit more up-front.

That Admin should have stepped in to stop the unnecessary name calling when it degenerating into a spitting/pissing contest!

Come on guys! Time to give this thread a well deserved rest maybe?
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Re: ALTERNATOR TUTORIAL

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:13 pm

Old Fogey wrote:That Admin should have stepped in to stop the unnecessary name calling when it degenerating into a spitting/pissing contest!


I was really on the fence about this one. It was pushing the limits of civility, but it was also presenting some good information, so I decided to let it run its course, and just watch it. I REALLY dislike sites where the admins delete/curtail things all the time, and I try to avoid it if at all possible. In fact, in all the years this site has been up, I've done it TWICE. That's a real credit to the people here.




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