Understanding the Charging System


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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Understanding the Charging System

Postby wing rider 2012 » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:07 pm



There has been a lot of post about batteries, alternators and basic charging on the Gold Wing, I hope this help with understanding how the charging system works, and I’ll try and keep it simple.

The charging system is really simple and not the nightmare most thinks it is. The system is comprised of 3 basic parts.

1) Battery
2) Alternator
3) Rectifier/Regulator

Battery is nothing more than a storage reservoir that supplies current when needed. It is made up of 6 cells that supply 2.1 volts per cell giving it a shelf voltage of 12.6 volts. The Amperage capacity of the battery is limited to the size and surface area of the plates that make up the cells, the larger the cells or the more surface area, the higher the amp capacity. This is why a motorcycle battery is limited on the CCA (cold cranking amps) which is required when starting the motorcycle. Cold Cranking Amps is the amount of amperage available for a 30 second duration at 0 degrees F. You will see batteries rate with both CCA and CA (cranking amps) CA is normally rated higher because its rating is taken at 32 degrees F. The Amp Hour (Ah) rating is the amount of amps the battery can supply in 1 hour before the charge is depleted; this rating is done with no charge going to the battery. The more expensive the battery doesn’t mean a better battery, when shopping for a battery one should look at the CCA and Amp hour ratings and your budget.
Here are a couple of examples:

Big Crank ETX20L CCA 310, Ah 17.5, Weight 16 pounds, Type AGM, Cost +- 85.00 this battery offers good CA and low cost, draw back weight and only a 1 year warranty.
Odyssey PC545 Battery CCA 150, Ah 12, Weight 12 pounds, Type AGM, Cost +- 160.00 the only real advantage of this battery is a 2 year warranty. Draw back, low CCA
Shorai LFX24L3-BS12 Lithium-Iron Battery CCA 360, Ah 24, Weight 4 pounds, Type Lithium Iron, Cost +- 230.00 this is most likely the best battery on the market for motorcycles, it has a 3 year warranty and light weight, the cons, it’s expensive.


GL1500 & GL1800
Alternator is a device that is used to generate voltage/current and is made up of 3 primary sections, the rotor, the stator and the rectifier/regulator.
The rotor is what is connected to the alternator drive gear on the Gold Wings and as it spins within the stator it produces voltage within the stator. The rotor by itself will do nothing; it has to have voltage applied to the field windings in order to produce a magnetic field this is where the brushes come into play. The brushes are connected to the slip rings and the slip rings are connected to the field windings.
The stator is made up of 3 sets of individual windings known as 3 phase and generates an AC voltage and these winding are connected to the rectifier diodes. The diodes smooth out or rectify the AC voltage into a smooth DC voltage. There are two basic designs of alternators, Delta stator and the Wye stator.
Delta stators use a 3 wire stator design, the windings are in parallel, and deliver high current at low RPM’s, while the Wye stators use a 4 wire design, the windings are in series, and delivers high voltage at low RPM’s. The GL1500 OEM alternator uses the Delta design stators and the GL1800 OEM alternator uses the Wye design stators.

GL1000, GL1100 and GL1200
These bikes make use of permanent magnets mounted within the stator assembly, there is no field voltage. As you start the bike the magnets rotate within the stator and induce the voltage, these system run an external regulator.
The same principal applies to these types of systems with the exceptions as noted “permanent magnets” and “external regulator”.


Rectifier/Regulator although is part of the alternator (GL1500’s and up) it is a separate component in the charging system. The rectifier portion of the assembly takes the AC 3 phase voltage and converts it to a smooth DC voltage. The reason they use 3 phase is to produce a smooth DC voltage. The regulator assembly is the brains of the alternator; you might call it the “gate keeper”. Its function is to maintain a pre-determined charging system voltage level, typically at 14.2-14.6 V DC. You might be asking, if I have a 12 V system, why the charging is set at 14+ volts. Remember the battery has a surface voltage of 12.6 volts, in order to create current flow into the battery (charging condition) the voltage has to exceed the surface voltage. The regulator monitors the battery voltage level, when the battery voltage drops below a set point the regulator will increase the field current allowing the stator to increase the current flow to the battery. When the battery voltage reaches a set point, at full charge, the regulator will decrease the field current thereby decreasing the current flow to the battery.

So how does this all work together, you put your key into the ignition switch, turn on the bike, at this point the bike is operating solely on the battery, the ignition sense wire from the switch turns on the regulator in the alternator. You push the start button and the starter engages and a huge amount of current is being supplied by the battery to the starter, remember CCA. Once the bike starts the regulator sees the voltage drop at the battery it then increases the field current which in turn increases the stator current and supplies this to the battery. The amount of current supplied to the battery is also dependent on the RPM at which the bike is running. Once the battery is at its charged state the field current is decreased and the stator current follows suit, when load demand increases as with lights, radio and accessories the regulator will increase the field current to compensate for the increased load, however, it will only increase to the extent of the added load. This is done to protect the battery from over charging and damaging the battery. An alternator is not designed to run at full charge all the time, doing so can damage both the alternator and the regulator.


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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Fatwing Chris » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:45 pm

Excellent write up!!!!!!!!!
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:27 pm

Wingrider,
Now understanding how the voltage regulator works, let me ask you this question. I bought 2 100 W halogen running lights for my bike (got caught up in darn Black Friday and had to buy something... :D ) Anyway, if i'm riding through town sitting at alot of red lights and low idle, can they drain more power and run my battery down too low. Or if i'm on the freeway moving 70mph and turn the lights on will it keep the battery charged. AKA, will the alternator demands be met at higher speeds where the lights would not be logical for long low idle?
I really suck at electrical and have just startedtrying to figure this stuff out since Scott posted Electrical 101. I never even knew how a relay worked....Thanks to you tube i'll be ready to short out everything by spring...
Also, since i'm asking. how do I know what lights (or anything) is ok to add when I don't know what the draw is from things I already have on the bike. To me hteoretically what you're saying is with just my regular lights/radio/gps/ipod on and i'm idleing too much the alternator won't every charge the battery mack up. If this doesn't make any sense, just ignore it cause I don't even know if I said was worded correctly towards your regulator explanation.......back to you tube............
Just hooking up lights I can't find a source to tell me what fuse size I need, relay size and wire gauge and how to rate a toggle switch....
My past wiring consists of, pretty heavy wire, a 15 amp fuse and if it blows I go to 20 and a heavy duty toggle switch.
Good article on the alternator though.
Al
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:32 pm

If you are running the stock OEM alternator, hanging 200 extra watts of lighting on your bike will very likely overwhelm the charging system and draw down your battery even at highway speeds.

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:55 pm

Yeah, I read it wrong, they were 6" flood too. My daughters boyfriend is getting them for xmas He just broke one off his 4x4. Is 55watt Halogen too big? Everything I read seemed to be 35 watt was the one to use, but I saw some nice 55w lights at autozone and I got a 20.00 card to use. I need as much light as I can get
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:34 pm

Dogsled wrote:Yeah, I read it wrong, they were 6" flood too. My daughters boyfriend is getting them for xmas He just broke one off his 4x4. Is 55watt Halogen too big? Everything I read seemed to be 35 watt was the one to use, but I saw some nice 55w lights at autozone and I got a 20.00 card to use. I need as much light as I can get


Honestly, if you want a ton of light thrown out in front of your GL1500, the GoldwingHID HID headlight kit is the way to go. It will far eclipse any add-on light, and uses less power than your OEM headlights.

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:24 pm

Thanks, I think that's the way i'm gonna go. I'll have to figure that double off/on at startup.

I have a aux light bar and had lights on them a long time ago. Besides not giving out much light I never liked the way they looked on the 1500.

Thanks again, Al
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby wing rider 2012 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:23 pm

Dogsled wrote:Yeah, I read it wrong, they were 6" flood too. My daughters boyfriend is getting them for xmas He just broke one off his 4x4. Is 55watt Halogen too big? Everything I read seemed to be 35 watt was the one to use, but I saw some nice 55w lights at autozone and I got a 20.00 card to use. I need as much light as I can get


2 55 watt light will add 8 amps to your current draw when these lights are on. Now if have an OEM GL1500 alternator it is only a 40 amp alternator. One thing to remember is that 40 amps is the max current, and an alternator operating at max amps most of the time will fail, they are designed to supply max amps for a short while until the battery recovers. If you are overtaxing the amperage of the bike then the battery will never reach a full charge, the alternator will be in a constant state of high amperage and the regulator will fail.

To calculate amperage draw from wattage: wattage (P) / voltage (V) = Amperage (A)

55 watts / 13.2 V = 4.2 amps your installing 2 lamps X 2 = 8 amps, at idle the amperage will increase because the voltage will decrease with rpm.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Wed Dec 25, 2013 4:18 pm

I think i'm gonna look for them old carraige lights with candles in them.....I should be ok :lol:

Wingrider I do appreciate the numbers. This is why I don't like electrical, A= amps, V= volts and P= watts....What the ........ why doesn't W= watts? was it used for something that started with T. I just figured out what / and* meant, even though a calculator has the times and divide symbol.

I believe every word you say about the numbers but... my buddy ran all kinds of heated gear for him and his wife, a GPS, the stereo and charged his cell phone talked on the CB and pulled a pop-up camper while he was riding and never ran his battery dead....All with a stock alternator.............AND the math says 2- 55W lights are gonna strain my total output???
I asked him how much draw he was pulling with all that stuff....he said "HUH???" Guess it pays sometimes to be dumb, just get on and ride.
But without jest, thanks for figuring that out.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby wing rider 2012 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:21 pm

Dogsled wrote:I think i'm gonna look for them old carraige lights with candles in them.....I should be ok :lol:

Wingrider I do appreciate the numbers. This is why I don't like electrical, A= amps, V= volts and P= watts....What the ........ why doesn't W= watts? was it used for something that started with T. I just figured out what / and* meant, even though a calculator has the times and divide symbol.

I believe every word you say about the numbers but... my buddy ran all kinds of heated gear for him and his wife, a GPS, the stereo and charged his cell phone talked on the CB and pulled a pop-up camper while he was riding and never ran his battery dead....All with a stock alternator.............AND the math says 2- 55W lights are gonna strain my total output???
I asked him how much draw he was pulling with all that stuff....he said "HUH???" Guess it pays sometimes to be dumb, just get on and ride.
But without jest, thanks for figuring that out.


I'm not saying that two 55 watt lights will strain your load, however, it all depends on the existing power consumption of the bike. If your getting close to that 40 amp limit, then you will start noticing dimming lights upon stopping.

Watts = Power that's why they use (P) instead of (W)

Yes,I've know riders like your buddy, although it does help to know just how much power your bike is consuming, that way you will not be in the middle of nowhere and all of a sudden your bikes dies with a dead battery and you just replaced the battery. There are those that think of a new battery as something that is a fix all, however, the problem will never be fixed until one does at least two things. First, upgrade the alternator to handle the load or reduce the load to where the alternator can supply it.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Wed Dec 25, 2013 8:49 pm

I know i'm good right now, i'm studying trying to learn as much about my bikes electrical system this winter. I get data but don't understand it. Then I go about researching it to try and get an understanding, alot of info on the net, putting it all together is the key. Honda made a touring bike and knew power was going to be a requirement by the time they got to the 1500's. I know i'd never shell out the money for a compu-fire and the battery it requires. Mortorcycle accessories will try to sell you any thing they come out with the compufire and all of a sudden Honda engineering isn't good enough....it's all about how much people are willing to shell out. I was looking at a 2005 Yami FZ1 the other day and the kid paid a thousand bucks for a carbon fiber exhaust system....If he hadn't been broke, I had a bridge he coulda bought. He claims 'better performance????? WTF how much better can it get. People read ads and forums and follow whatever the pack does.
Wait til that compufire II comes out.
I think Honda Engineering built the bike to perform perfectly. I'm just trying to learn how to keep the balance and this is the kind of post I have to learn from and from real world people like you who can explain things so I can almost understand......like I said before, me and wiring just have issues. But I do appreciate your time in explaining what you did. BTW Merry Christmas Al
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby wing rider 2012 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:53 am

Dogsled, I understand what your saying when it comes to electronics and bike, I've been in the electronics field for 35 years and they are always coming out with something new. As to the Compufire alternator, there are those who swear by them and there are those who swear at them. There are other high amperage alternators on the market that are just as good as a Compufire at half the price, however, it seems that what one has installed on their bike is always the best product. It never ceases to amaze me that just because something is built for a Gold Wing it has to be three time times the cost.

Just keep in mind that anything that uses an alternator does have limited power, it doesn't matter if it is a 40 amp alternator or a 100 amp alternator, once you exceed the amperage rating of the alternator your going to have issues and once you hit that amperage limit then alternator failure isn't to far behind.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Thu Dec 26, 2013 12:31 pm

Ken Hemings builds a higher amp alternator, I always deal with him.

Maybe this has been explained somewhere, but how do I know where my total amp use stands right now? I have a D&M meter mounted on my bike, I look at it ALL the time, it has gear indication on it and I never know what gear i'm in so I have the habit of looking at it alot. When my alt went out the first time I was looking at the D&M and caught it in time to turn around and make it home. It goes to 13.6 as the max, I've never had it go any higher. So anyway How do I test the running bike to see where I standd and if I can afford to put , say an extra 4 or 6 amp draw on it?

My research abilities suck as bad as my electrical knowledge :lol:
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby wing rider 2012 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:33 pm

Dogsled, the fastest and safest way to see what you amperage draw is would be to use a clamp on style ammeter, just clamp the meter to the positive battery wire and then turn the ignition switch to the "on" position, do not start the bike. You then would read the amperage draw from the meter. You most likely could go to most auto parts stores and they would do this for you.

The other way would be to install an ammeter in series with the battery lead, this would mean you would have to disconnect the battery lead from the battery and then install your ammeter leads between the battery and the battery cable. The ammeter you would use for this needs to be able to handle high current, most DVM's will not be able to do this.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:31 am

wing rider 2012 wrote:Dogsled, the fastest and safest way to see what you amperage draw is would be to use a clamp on style ammeter, just clamp the meter to the positive battery wire and then turn the ignition switch to the "on" position, do not start the bike. You then would read the amperage draw from the meter. You most likely could go to most auto parts stores and they would do this for you.

The other way would be to install an ammeter in series with the battery lead, this would mean you would have to disconnect the battery lead from the battery and then install your ammeter leads between the battery and the battery cable. The ammeter you would use for this needs to be able to handle high current, most DVM's will not be able to do this.


The clamp on ammeter will work, but the most accurate (and cheapest) way is to use a shunt meter, like the one shown here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19501#p107205

You can then find out what each individual circuit on your bike is drawing. Add them together, you have your total draw.

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:14 am

Thanks, I call them multimeters. I have one of those. I never hooked one up to a fuse (I assume that's where I would hook it I assume) I've only stuck test light in there, I thought they'd just all read 12v so I never tried to use it to test draw.

I started thinking about how much allowance power I would need to leave. Say a hot day and the cooling fans running in city traffic. Then again, if I turned the key on and had all the lights and accesories on, shouldn't the meter read what a general draw would be right off the batteriy?
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:19 am

OOPS, sorry Wingrider, I didn't see your post. I haven't been getting e-mail notifications to replies. Yo Scott, also you told me you figured out what the forum problem was, I mean't to write and say that, also, I get logged out everytime I click off the sight. I just realized I wasn't recieving notifications.

Didn't mean to dis you Wingrider, just didn't see ya there.
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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby bfetch » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:22 pm

The abbreviation RPM (revolutions per minute) comes to us already plural. It has no need for an 's' or an apostrophe 's' tacked on.

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby simplypjm » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:59 pm

Thanks wing rider for the well written article. I might be taking a giant leap here but I read about people having alternates issues with GL1500's. Could this be in part to perhaps too much electrical draw from add on toys or not running the bike long enough to recharge the battery? If a bike is sitting for a while between rides would it be a good idea to connect the battery to a "trickle charger" to maintain a full charge?
Thanks
Peter

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jan 01, 2014 8:09 pm

simplypjm wrote:Thanks wing rider for the well written article. I might be taking a giant leap here but I read about people having alternates issues with GL1500's. Could this be in part to perhaps too much electrical draw from add on toys or not running the bike long enough to recharge the battery? If a bike is sitting for a while between rides would it be a good idea to connect the battery to a "trickle charger" to maintain a full charge?
Thanks
Peter


It's possible that many short trips with lots of starts could discharge the battery without enough time to charge it back up.

I highly recommend a Battery Tender Jr. as an intelligent float charger rather than a trickle charger. A trickle charger will quickly sulfate and destroy a motorcycle battery, whereas the Battery Tender (or other intelligent float charger) can be left connected 24/7/365. In fact, all of my various batteries are connected to Battery Tenders whenever they are not out being used. Batteries will last for years when treated this way.

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby SlowTyper » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:39 am

First: Good article.
Second: Let me shed a different light on the question of "will my battery go dead if I add 'XYZ' to my bike..."

I ride a GL1200 and have everything but the kitchen sink added to the bike. On an exceptionally good day, the charging system on a GL1200 might handle 20 Amps. So I have been very creative in limiting my electrical load!

I find the easiest way to determine if I am expecting too much from my charging circuit is to connect a voltmeter directly to the battery while the bike is running and resting on the center stand in my garage. Since the nominal voltage of a 12v battery is 12.6 volts, if I read less than 12.8 volts I conclude the load is more than the charging circuit can handle and the battery will be discharged. If I read 14 volts or more, I conclude that the charging circuit is handling the load and still has enough reserve to charge the battery.

I perform the above test at an idle with the brake lights on. I also observe the voltage with the engine RPM at my average cruising speed. I also perform the test with the radiator cooling fan running, since that adds a significant load (which may exceed the tipping point of whether the charging system can keep up).

My criteria for what constitutes too much load is whether the charging system can maintain at least 14.0 volts at the lowest engine RPM I typically ride. My test may also persuade me to choose a lower gear (to achieve a higher engine RPM) while meandering through the park on a Sunday afternoon ride.

As a practical matter, my charging system does NOT keep up with the load when my engine is idling. My engine has to reach 1400 RPM or more to meet the electrical load on my bike. But since I seldom idle, that is not usually a problem. The exception is when I ride in a parade -- and for that scenario I have added a 'parade switch' that disconnects some of my electrical load.

Now, here's some suggestions for minimizing electrical load. However, your challenges will not be as severe with a 1500 or 1800 since those bikes have a more robust charging system than my GL1200 has.

1. Use LED lights. A pair of 25W LED spots will generate as much light as 55W halogens, but only consume half as much power. I also used LED replacements for my 1157 bulbs, because even though I don't prefer their light output, I was needing to shave every Amp of electrical load possible on my bike. I also converted my 3 dozen auxiliary marker lights to LED, which reduced my load by 8 Amps!

2. If you want to reduce the power consumption of Halogen spots, then consider hooking them up in series. This will decrease the load to 25%, and still make you visible to other drivers. Then add a 'night-time' switch that connects the lights in parallel (normal wiring) when you need the additional light output and are traveling at highway speeds when the charging circuit has more output. A DPDT Center-Off switch works well for this; Center is off, up is high (normal wiring), down is low (series wiring).

3. Although it will not reduce the electrical load, use an HID headlight. This will give you so much more light output that auxiliary spots are not needed to help you see at night. You can then use lower power spots since their only function will be to make you more visible to other drivers (due to the larger target area of light they create on the front of the bike). However, reference the postings about wiring the HID so that it does not cycle ON/OFF during starting.

4. If you have maxed out your charging system so that there is very little reserve to charge your battery when you take short in-town trips and/or ride in parades, then buy a maintenance charger (one that contains the word 'desulfator' in the description) to fully charge your battery between rides.

PS. Believe it or not... On my GL1200, my electrical load consists of a HID headlight, two 27W LED floodlights, over 3 dozen marker lights, subwoofer amp, CB, GPS, cellphone antenna booster, Bluetooth cellphone intercom interface, air horns, and all the factory stuff (lights and ignition, etc.). Previously, I had halogen spots that were connected to a home-brew solid-state dimmer that dimmed automatically as the battery voltage dropped below 14V. However, the LED spots are superior both in terms of light output and power consumption (which eliminated the need for the automatic dimmer).

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Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby miken6qzt » Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:38 pm

For a 1500 Goldwing, I recommend a "Comp-u fire" system. http://www.compufire.com/index.php?opti ... 3&Itemid=5

As a member of "MARC" the Motorcycling Amateur Radio Club; http://www.marc-hq.org/pages/homepage.htm

We run Ham radio's and a lot of extra lights while doing our charity events at low speeds. With a comp-u fire system you won't have to worry about being under powered again.
Mike Naron, N6QZT/MARC/PGR/ALARC/AL_Post_256
OC TDC "Surf 2 Summit" Coordinator

Dogsled
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: Boardman, OH
Motorcycle: 1997 Goldwing

Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:22 pm

Read the reviews here for compufire....I've read more bad reviews over the years.

http://wingstuff.com/products/1268-high ... for-gl1500

I see they've gotten into selling their own batteries now. The prices have dropped on them, people must be catching on.... :? Just a note Ken Heming sells a high output alt and I think it's less, plus he's a phone call away if you need any info or have problems. I like supporting him cause he's all American and a gold wing riders.

Mike, are you serious you run a ham radio on your bike???? That is so cool. I wanted to get into that years back but it was too complicated and I needed to much stuff. I don't remember much about it, but don't you need numbers or something to operate a radio.
Does it work like a CB on your bike?
AND why does it take up so much more power?
A guy I know had like a 30' tower in his back yard, how do you get around that on a bike?
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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miken6qzt
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 4:50 pm
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Motorcycle: 1984 GL1200A Aspencade. 1994 GL1500 SE

Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby miken6qzt » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:44 pm

Happy New Year Dogsled,

I have a kenwood tri-bander on my SE, I also have extra driving lights and front and rear amber strobes. During a normal day on the bike at a charity event, I have the strobes on, the headlight modulator turned on, the hazards on, a GPS on and at least 2 ham radio bands on. with an output of up to 50 watts, when your only going about 10-25 MPH, starting and stopping, starting the bike multiple times during the day, you really suck the life out of the battery.

Check out the photos on the MARC web site.

As for becoming a ham, it's a lot easier than it used to be. You don't have to learn morse code anymore. We at MARC are just starting to get ready for the first event of the year, and would love to have you join us.
Mike Naron, N6QZT/MARC/PGR/ALARC/AL_Post_256
OC TDC "Surf 2 Summit" Coordinator

Dogsled
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: Boardman, OH
Motorcycle: 1997 Goldwing

Re: Understanding the Charging System

Postby Dogsled » Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:22 pm

See you lost me when you said 'when you become a ham'.... :shock: Lingo like that reminds me of the 'ham' I knew before.....

Hey, I got your PM and e-mailed you before I read this post......look for it

Al 'ham' :geek:

No wonder I can't save any money, guys like you always got some neat s**t I end up buying.......


"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"


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