Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals


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triketrash
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Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby triketrash » Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:05 am



Hi guys- I ordered up a new gasket set for my GL 1100 today and am studying up to change the valve seals without removing the heads. I keep reading here that Old Fogey put together a pictoral article on doing this, but can't find a link to it. Anybody have that? I am most concerned about how to keep track of the rockers after removing that assembly. I've never done it before and am afraid I'm gonna mix something up. I was hoping to be able to compress the springs without taking the rockers off but that just seems like too much fiddling. Also, do I need to coat the lobes, journals etc with lube before putting it back together? I'm hoping I can leave the cam in place while I do the seals. I saw somewhere that you could use a bungey cord to keep the cam in place. Thanks, Vince



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Sagebrush
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby Sagebrush » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:55 am

You can find any article he may have on the subject at his website located here: http://www.wingovations.com

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ct1500
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby ct1500 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:52 am

No two ways about it valve springs must come off unless you were thinking of cutting the new seals in half and slipping them in between the spring coils which would defeat the whole purpose. :)
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triketrash
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby triketrash » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:23 pm

OK got it- the link to the article discussing valve seal replacement without removing heads is here:

http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14861

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triketrash
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby triketrash » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:34 pm

OK- dove into the valve train today. I started with the right side. First step was to remove the cam caps which went fine. What I didn't realize at first was that there is a bolt coming into the rocker assembly from the side, through what I believe is the fuel pump mechanism. After that came out, the rockers came off fairly easily. After staring at the setup for a while I figured there was no way to get the spring compressor to do its job unless the crash bar came off so off that came- I borrowed the tool from O'reilly's and it seemed to fit OK. I took all the spark plugs out, stuffed rope into the right rear cylinder and turned the engine over by hand until there was decent pressure. Because there are two springs per valve and the tool only grabs the outer one, you have to push in to compress that inner one even though the tool has fully compressed the outer one. Once you've done that you can use a magnet to grab the keepers. Well in the pushing in process, the tool shifted a little and everything went flying but I was able to find everything so no biggy. When I went to pry the valve seal off it broke in half, which gives you an idea how brittle it was. Anyway, after the seal came off, I was surprised to find a seat at the bottom (top) of the valve which I guess is the spring seat. It seemed to look ok- is this something that typically needs to be changed? Well now I'm just waiting for the seals to show up in the mail.


Question- when I am rotating the engine on each cylinder to compress the rope against the valves, the cam is obviously moving. When I go to reinstall the rocker assembly, do I have to worry about where the cam lobes are, or do I just bolt it up and let the rockers do what they will? thanks, Vince

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ct1500
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby ct1500 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:12 pm

triketrash wrote:OK- dove into the valve train today. I started with the right side. First step was to remove the cam caps which went fine. What I didn't realize at first was that there is a bolt coming into the rocker assembly from the side, through what I believe is the fuel pump mechanism. After that came out, the rockers came off fairly easily. After staring at the setup for a while I figured there was no way to get the spring compressor to do its job unless the crash bar came off so off that came- I borrowed the tool from O'reilly's and it seemed to fit OK. I took all the spark plugs out, stuffed rope into the right rear cylinder and turned the engine over by hand until there was decent pressure. Because there are two springs per valve and the tool only grabs the outer one, you have to push in to compress that inner one even though the tool has fully compressed the outer one. Once you've done that you can use a magnet to grab the keepers. Well in the pushing in process, the tool shifted a little and everything went flying but I was able to find everything so no biggy. When I went to pry the valve seal off it broke in half, which gives you an idea how brittle it was. Anyway, after the seal came off, I was surprised to find a seat at the bottom (top) of the valve which I guess is the spring seat. It seemed to look ok- is this something that typically needs to be changed? Well now I'm just waiting for the seals to show up in the mail.


Question- when I am rotating the engine on each cylinder to compress the rope against the valves, the cam is obviously moving. When I go to reinstall the rocker assembly, do I have to worry about where the cam lobes are, or do I just bolt it up and let the rockers do what they will? thanks, Vince


Very brittle as it cracked off and you should see a reduction in oil usage when done. If they are the umbrella type seals ensure that they are properly installed. And that would most likely be pushed down so the bottom portion of seal is actually over and around the valve guide until bottomed on guide. A spring around lower portion of seal is a dead give away for that type.

A spring seat pad or shim is nothing to be concerned about and is where you get your installed spring height to specs. Just install everything in reverse order with no flip flopping. Make TRIPLE SURE keepers are properly seated and installed (holding in place with your fingertips if needed) before loosening spring compressor. Looking at the pre removal and after installation gap and height of the two keepers will keep you on the right track. Loosing your keepers with engine running will suck the valve into cylinder.

Just install rocker assembly making sure rockers are lined up and where they are supposed to be. Tighten in steps checking to see everything is still where it should be with no binding/forcing.

The keepers can often get to fit tight around the upper spring retainer. You can use an old socket placed square on top of spring retainer and give it a quick light rap with a hammer to break loose prior to using the spring compressor if needed.

Congratulations. :)
Last edited by ct1500 on Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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triketrash
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby triketrash » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:38 pm

OK CT1500- thanks for those comments. I have a hunch the fun starts when I start to try getting the keepers back in, but will make sure as you suggest that they are definitely in proper position before de-tensioning the spring. I'll give an update after I get the parts and put everything back together.

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ct1500
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Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby ct1500 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:48 pm

If it seems you will need 6 pairs of hands to do you can put a little grease on inside of keepers to help hold in place on stem.
This is what I do
Local and need repair help with your 1500, Valkyrie or ST please PM

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triketrash
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:36 pm
Location: Shelton, WA
Motorcycle: 1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Searching for Old Fogey Topic- Valve Seals

Postby triketrash » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:51 am

excellent idea CT- thanks




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