Can't get fork seal out


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triketrash
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Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:24 pm



I have the fork off the bike, disassembling it for new seal and I can't get the old one out. Resorted to putting the slider in a vice and two-fisted the upper MANY times without the seal even budging a smidge. And yes... I have removed the dust seal and circlip. Any ideas? Looking at the seal, I think the PO may have installed it upside down, but that shouldn't make it any harder to unseat I wouldn't think.



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RoadRogue
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby RoadRogue » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:50 pm

They can be a "little sticky" sometimes. The last set changed out were like that too. I left the tubes clamped in the bike and used a wooden block to tap the lower legs off.
You did remove the Allen bolt from the bottom of the slider right? 8-)
Ride safe, Todd
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triketrash
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:15 pm

yep- the allen bolt's out. Well shoot- maybe I should do that Todd- put the uppers back on the bike and bang the slider (carefully.)

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby RoadRogue » Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:52 pm

I used a chunk of 2x4, not hardwood. Dont want to break anything other than the wood. 8-)
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:19 pm

OK good advice- thanks. The other thing I guess I could try is heating up the upper end of the slider with a torch to expand it a little.

A couple more questions too. Now that it's been a couple days since the fork came apart, I'm trying to remember if the bigger spring goes on top or down below. Theres like a 2 footer and a 6 incher.

Also, on seal orientation, the packaging is telling me to have the side with the maker's lettering facing up, away from the oil. Does this sound right?

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby RoadRogue » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:55 pm

Its been a couple years since I did this , but as I remember the short spring is on top. Follow the seal manufacturers instructions,oil them before installation . 8-)
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:10 pm

I've been banging on this thing for 2 days- just tried heat to no avail. What the heck. Am I missing something?

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby RoadRogue » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:24 pm

Give this thread a read. There is a diagram that shows how to remove a seal useing a lever to compress the fork that has been over filled with oil to push the seal out. There is also an exploded view of all the parts of the fork assembly. Hope this helps. 8-)
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20278
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby RoadRogue » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:31 pm

I just reread the opening post again. You said you removered the circlip, did yiu get out the steel washer too? It could be hanging up in the groove the circlip was in.Use a magnet and a pick to help remove it. Keep us posted. 8-)
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:38 pm

yes- the washer is out too! It just doesn't make sense. I've had this thing in the vise slamming it, added heat, and that seal hasn't even budged. I can still see the groove for the circlip.

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby cbx4evr » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:03 am

I've never owned an 1100 so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Just wondering if there is an air fitting on those forks. On my KLR 650 there is and I remove the seals by wrapping the fork leg at the seal with a rag and then adding air to the fork. Takes about 60 to 80 lbs. and the seal pops out. If you do this add air slowly and wait a minute for it to work before adding more. The seal slowly gets pushed out until the end of course when you get a rush of air escaping. Wear a face shield if you decide to have a look under pressure.

Just throwing this out there. Not even sure if it's possible on your forks.
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:53 pm

No- it's not a bad idea cbx- There is a fitting on top for air. I thought about doing it after you suggested it, but, instead of risking the addition of injury to insult by launching a missile across my garage, I decided to take the forks in to my mechanic friend and let him play with them. I like doing stuff myself, but there comes a point when I just want to get it done and I'm there with these forks. I did the ones on my XR650L and had no trouble but these are definitely harder.

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:08 pm

triketrash wrote:No- it's not a bad idea cbx- There is a fitting on top for air. I thought about doing it after you suggested it, but, instead of risking the addition of injury to insult by launching a missile across my garage, I decided to take the forks in to my mechanic friend and let him play with them. I like doing stuff myself, but there comes a point when I just want to get it done and I'm there with these forks. I did the ones on my XR650L and had no trouble but these are definitely harder.


You're absolutely right, there is a reasonable volume of air in there, and with the air pressure a standard compressor could put into it, if it were to release uncontrolled all of a sudden, you could very conceivably launch it through your garage wall...and through your neighbor's wall...

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:04 pm

well guys- my mechanic called me a few minutes ago and confirmed that the forks were an absolute BIATCH to get apart. Said the one I had been slamming on was the EASY one:) After 45 minutes of working on the other one he got it apart to find not one drop of oil in it! Thing has probably never been changed since '81.

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:54 am

triketrash wrote:well guys- my mechanic called me a few minutes ago and confirmed that the forks were an absolute BIATCH to get apart. Said the one I had been slamming on was the EASY one:) After 45 minutes of working on the other one he got it apart to find not one drop of oil in it! Thing has probably never been changed since '81.


Wow. Was there anything left of the slider or guide bushings at all? And I wonder how much scoring and damage has been done to the inside of the slider, from the non-lubricated bushings moving up and down inside them?

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby Dogsled » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:35 am

If the allen screws at the bases were removed, all the oil would have drained out. So no oil in the lower legs shouldn't be a surprise. Especially as long as you've had them open and pushing the tubes up and down.
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby RoadRogue » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:35 pm

So, now that its apart and you can see the condition, do you need a new set of forks? 8-)
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:40 pm



So the theory is, that as we were slamming the upper and lower with the slider hammer move, the darker colored bushing was being pushed inside the copper colored one, stretching it out somewhat, the force thus expanding outwards instead of upward against the seal. Anybody buying this idea?

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby themainviking » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:51 am

It sure looks like that could have been the reason/result. So are the tubes and lower legs still useable?
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:06 am

yes, again, my mechanic said they looked fine inside. The forks are back together and going back on the bike today. I'll keep you posted.

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby Dogsled » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:52 pm

If that bottom bushing had jumped over the slider bushing there would have been no way for it to have been forced up and down without having totally destroyed the lower leg lining.
The tolerance of the bushings are a coating of brass (or something), basically inside the leg there would be no way for that bushing to jump up onto the slider. I don't know who put it on there, evidently after the thing was removed, but had you pumped it like that......well, you just plain couldn't have.
You never answered my previous post about removing the allen screws and you draining the oil and the contradiction of the mechanic saying the forks were dry......for a while while you were driving it???
I have 3 front ends in front of me now i'm working on and any problems like this are of great interest.

I have issues with one thing. New bushings and sliders... If you look at the OEM parts fische it doesn't tell you anything about what the lower leg inards consist of. If you're bushings were that bad and the tolerances on the new tube bushing are so close, how do you know no lower leg damage has been done. Is there any info on what the inner tube of the lower leg that the upper tube slides on when bushed is made of?

Maybe somebody has a better view of what the upper leg and lower leg are made of and how if possibly you run the upper fork bushings too long that they can cause unrepairable damage to the lower legs

So where do we get a breakdown of what is really in the lower leg..........This is a great post all the way around doesn't end at the seals....

Great pictures of the bushings BTW
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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triketrash
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:09 pm

Yes you're right Dogsled- that bushing wasn't piggybacked on the other when we got it apart. I just shoved it in there to demonstrate my theory as to why the things were such a pain to get apart. I thought it might have been slightly pushing in there as we were slide hammering. And yes, somehow my post didn't get through responding to you about removing the lower screws. The answer was 'yes' I DID drain both sides before I got them off the bike! No wonder they were dry :) Anyway as to the last part of your question, I know that the Clymer manual gives a measurement for the diameter of the lower and if it's too much, your slider is toast. Is that the info you're looking for?

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby Dogsled » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:28 pm

I don't know......I was just wondering what damage can be done to the lower leg before it would be useless, as I don't see any specs or parts to check or replace items. I keep seeing the same thing your pictures show of this micro coating of brass on the bushing making it in need of replacement...What if we go miles beyond that and whatever was beneath the brass wore into the guide of the lower leg.

Heck in that case no ne bushings would repair that. As far as your Clymer (don't have one) spec, I assume you're talking about the replaceable bushings on the upper tube?

It's so friggin cold here & I got three sets of legs that need torn down and rebuilt....all the parts are here but I can't work like that. No heated garage............but i'm glad because I never thought about the wear in the lower legs and how to measure it. Everyone sees and concentrates on the upper tubes and what they need................so much that I never even thought of what else might be worn.

I'd say if the lower legs were worn, they'd wear oval whereas the bushings could spin and could wear all around.
this post is full of possiblilities and what to look for........

Hey, i'm glad you got your stuff loose and are on the 'RE-BUILD' end of it......have you given any thought to tearing apart the anti-dive system.........I still can't figure out how that thing works....but i'm quite sure as many times as i've screwed with mine they DON'T work.....Seems like a little bit of never addressed bottom leg art there..... :P
"Fight until hell freezes over, then fight on the ice"

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triketrash
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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby triketrash » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:19 pm

OH man don't tell me about anything ELSE that needs tinkering with:) I'm about all tinkered out. I didn't even know I had an anti-dive system. I might have bigger fish to fry- I rode my bike to work today after getting the forks back on and I've got a miss at idle that I've never had. I'm worried about the valve that I put in a while back. Anyway, one thing at a time. Let's see if I get home OK!

About the Clymer info, I'm pretty sure they give a diameter spec for the inside of the upper aspect of the slider- I think that's what you need. I'll have a look when I get back to the hangar.

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Re: Can't get fork seal out

Postby Dogsled » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:55 pm

Brother, I hope you're not flyin that wing back to the hangar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Anti Dive: a little hickey do on the bottom back of the lower leg that nobody seems to know much about how it actually works.

Be safe


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