This is Ridiculous!


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triketrash
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This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:24 pm






I changed out the rear wheel/ final drive on my bike with one in better shape a few hundred miles ago. I lubed it up with Honda moly. I figured I just overdid it a little with the amount, but after many rides, I'm still getting this every ride. Is it possible that the drive/ wheel are not seated properly and there's enough gap to allow the moly to fly out? The moly is flying out of the left groove in the photo above. thanks - Vince



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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:35 pm

It's not out of the realm of possibility. If you are worried that a seal or something has gone, just put the bike on the center stand and open the rear drive fill port to check the gear oil level. If it's still all there, then you know it's the Moly.

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MikeB
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby MikeB » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:28 pm

When is the last time you replaced the "O" rings on the wheel? Bad "O" rings will allow the grease to ooze out too.
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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Wed Apr 02, 2014 3:47 am

when you say O-rings, I take it you mean the ones on the plugs for the gear oil? I'm pretty sure this is not oil, but moly. I'll do what you say though, and check the oil, just to be sure.

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby Dusty Boots » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:45 am

triketrash wrote:when you say O-rings, I take it you mean the ones on the plugs for the gear oil? I'm pretty sure this is not oil, but moly. I'll do what you say though, and check the oil, just to be sure.


No, there are 3 O-rings located on the rear wheel, drive flange and driven flange.
Check out step 39 in this thread to see where they are located and you'll see my 3 photos that Scott 'borrowed'. :lol:

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby Sagebrush » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:24 am

According to the fiche I only see one o-ring related to the rear wheel flange, part #16 in the parts diagram. Honda part # 91316-PE7-730 O-RING (62.4X3.1) Looks like its still available from Honda.
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MikeB
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby MikeB » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:18 am

There is only one on the GL1100 drive flange. Dusty Boots is referring to the Gl1500 which has three O-rings.
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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:25 am

Hey thanks guys- I've got a hunch that o-ring isn't even in there. I'll pull it apart and have a look.

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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Wed Apr 02, 2014 10:51 am

now does that o-ring keep the gear oil in or the moly?

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:45 am

triketrash wrote:now does that o-ring keep the gear oil in or the moly?


It's to keep moly grease in. If it's missing (or damaged), the end result is what you're seeing.

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Fatwing Chris
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:41 pm

You really don't need very much of the moly grease.Just a very thin coating is all.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:05 pm

Ya you're probably right Chris - I was just going by the "how to" and Scott laid it on pretty thick there. My bike's up on the centerstand with the back end coming apart again.... I'm getting pretty good at this:) I'll have a look and see if that o-ring is in there or not. If it is, well then, I'll just make sure the hub and drive are seated properly and call it a day. I'll just have to keep carrying around my roll of paper towel and bottle of Simple Green until it flings off as much as it wants to:)

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby CaptainDave » Wed Apr 02, 2014 5:59 pm

I just changed my rear tire and REPLACED 3 o-rings there ... they were cheap - abotu $3 or $4 each .. and easy to replace
nice to meet you ... all the best ...

- come ride with us up in the beautiful San Bernardino Mountains in sunny southern Calif

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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:03 pm

Cheap and Easy- works for me- although I think I only have 1 o-ring to replace on my GL1100

So Capt D- Lake Arrowhead huh? I used to hang glide at Crestline/ Marshall a fair bit when I lived down that way (OC.)

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby CaptainDave » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:34 pm

we see the gliders all the time ... looks like a blast ... good luck
nice to meet you ... all the best ...

- come ride with us up in the beautiful San Bernardino Mountains in sunny southern Calif

Captain D - retired
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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:51 pm



got it apart today and this is what I'm looking at. Here's what I think- It looks like ordinary grease has got in and dissolved all the moly grease, leaving a goopy mess that is very happy to react to the physics of centrifugal force. And where might all this ordinary grease have come from. The only thing I can think of is this:



after I got the drive back together last time, I greased up the zerk fitting shown above with ordinary grease- could this have found it's way into the innards of the final drive and created my current situation?

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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:57 pm

As far as the O-ring question, I was expecting to see the o-ring at the base of the flange shown here:



I don't see anything there, but there is what looks like a rubber seal (I wouldn't call it an o-ring) on the inner face of the drive- is that what you guys are referring to? If so it looks ok. Again, I think the root of this problem is all that ordinary grease.

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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:32 pm

I'm waiting for someone to chime in on this- I guess the other possibility is that the gear oil is leaking from the inside onto the splines, dissolving the moly- this seems more likely actually. I still do have gear oil in the reservoir though, but maybe down a little.

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:57 am

It sure does look like that to me as well. The gear oil isn't black like that, so assuming it's relatively fresh, I don't think that's it. I don't know if there is a connection between the space lubricated by that grease zerk and the drive where you've got a mess, but keep in mind that grease guns can impart a TREMENDOUS amount of hydraulic pressure - in the range of 10,000 PSI. If the cavity you are filling up with grease is already full of grease, that pressure will squirt the grease out wherever it can find a place to go - and guaranteed the first place it will find is a seal.

I would take a can of brake cleaner and clean that mess of grease off. Then rotate the drive a bit and see if you can figure out where the grease is coming from. Reattach the drive to the swingarm and run the engine in 5th gear for a bit (without wheel attached) to get it rotating. With a bright light see if you have grease weeping from anywhere obvious.

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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:02 am

OK Scott- I'll do it. I might also stir up a little of each combination ( grease + moly) and (gear oil + moly) and see what they look like. If it IS gear oil, and there's a seal leaking, does that mean tearing into the final drive, or is it fairly easy?

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:55 pm



Well, I think that the cause of the goopy moly is a leak in the seal that holds the gear oil in the final drive. Here's why I think so: In the photo above, I mixed a little bit of moly with both the ordinary grease that I lubed the zerk fitting with and with the gear oil. The grease and moly combination (shown on left) really just stayed the same consistency as grease- pretty stiff. But the gear oil, and not very much of it, turned the moly into a soupy consistency, like the stuff I'm seeing on the wheel. Neither turned the darker color that I'm seeing in the stuff that gets sprayed all over the wheel, so that color change must be due to the grime that's in there (although it was cleaned and flushed, etc.,) not the products themselves.

Here's the clincher: With the final drive apart, I hooked up a grease gun to the zerk and observed where the grease comes out- it's up on the splines that mate with the drive shaft, not with the ones that mate with the flange. Case closed.

My manual says dismantling the final drive( which is required to change the seal) is a job for Honda, as it requires presses and what have you. Whether that's true or not, I think I have a better solution. I had changed out my old drive with this one a couple of months back because the splines were worn. Well, having a look at it again today, it turns out the drive splines are really in pretty good shape. It is the flange splines that are toast. So I'll just swap the drive back the one that had been on the bike- I know it doesn't leak because I'd been riding around with it last summer with no prob.

Thanks for your comments guys, and at least we all know where that zerk grease goes. By the way, my manual says it requires a moly based grease in there if you're going to use it, but the thing is, you're probably going to have the drive off at both ends anyway so you may as well just apply it uniformly by hand and forget the zerk altogether, as others have said.

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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby vtxcandyred » Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:38 am

WingAdmin wrote:It sure does look like that to me as well. The gear oil isn't black like that, so assuming it's relatively fresh, I don't think that's it. I don't know if there is a connection between the space lubricated by that grease zerk and the drive where you've got a mess, but keep in mind that grease guns can impart a TREMENDOUS amount of hydraulic pressure - in the range of 10,000 PSI. If the cavity you are filling up with grease is already full of grease, that pressure will squirt the grease out wherever it can find a place to go - and guaranteed the first place it will find is a seal.

I would take a can of brake cleaner and clean that mess of grease off. Then rotate the drive a bit and see if you can figure out where the grease is coming from. Reattach the drive to the swingarm and run the engine in 5th gear for a bit (without wheel attached) to get it rotating. With a bright light see if you have grease weeping from anywhere obvious.

I don't know the year change but I remember on my 1980 900Customs that there was a zerk on the driveshaft housing that required a squirt of grease on oil changes???? HMMM?

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triketrash
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Re: This is Ridiculous!

Postby triketrash » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:02 pm

Yes- that's the one we're talking about- it shows up in the fourth photo- with the orange carpeted background




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