Electronic question


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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mervk
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Electronic question

Postby mervk » Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:52 pm



I've bought a second hand set of Ghost Wheels, which allow support of a bike while stopped, as well as leaning through corners. This is achieved by hydraulic cylinders on each side wheel, which lock when required by flipping a switch. However, the locking mechanism will only work below a certain speed, and if locked, will automatically unlock if that speed is exceeded. I intend fitting these to my 85 1200.

The speed detection method used is by 4 magnets evenly spaced around the rear wheel rim. I have previously bought another product from the same manufacturer where the speed detection was via the electronic speedo pulses gained by tapping into the appropriate part of the wiring harness.

My question: Will the part of the circuit that detects the pulses from the magnets, also work from the electronic speedo output, or is different circuitry involved? Unfortunately the company is no longer around to answer my question, but I'm sure someone here has the expertise to give me an idea.

All replies gratefully received. Cheers

Merv from Downunder.


Merv Kroll
Downunder

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mervk
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Re: Electronic question

Postby mervk » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:00 am

Guess I may not have asked that question plainly. What I meant to ask is, do the magnets flying past the magnet sensor, give the same type of impulse as the electronic speedo output? Cheers.
Merv Kroll
Downunder

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virgilmobile
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Re: Electronic question

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:00 am

In a word..yes.
The electronic wheel sensor on the bike has a constant voltage,a ground and a pulsing signal.Your sensor may have the same.You would only use the ground and pulsing wire.
I would add a diode from the bikes pulsing wire to isolate it.
The next question...The new part would pulse 4 times per rev of the rear wheel (4 magnets)..how many pulses are created per rev of the front wheel?
Close would be good.

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BikerBuck
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Re: Electronic question

Postby BikerBuck » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:19 pm

The pulse rate on my 83 Aspencade is approximately 9400 per mile. With your 4 magnets your pulse rate will be approximately 2100. I suspect this would change the the speed at which the system activates and deactivates. On solution would be to add magnets to the rear wheel to up the pulse rate.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Electronic question

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:54 pm

I would also compare the original add on sensor to the bikes spedo sensor wiring.
The bike uses a 3 wire electronic part that converts the magnetic field change into a low voltage pulse (0 to 5 volts).
There are other sensors that are not compatable,such as a pulse coil type.It would have only 2 wires and produce a small voltage pulse as the magnet passes by it.Very similar to the 1100 ignition or a ABS sensor.
Lastly,if the pulse count determines when it goes automatic,hooked to the bike,it wouldn't activate till 1/5 the normal speed..eg if it activates at 5 mph,hooked to the bike it would go active at 1 mph.Or something like that.

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redial
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Re: Electronic question

Postby redial » Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:08 pm

Are you able to post photos of the "Ghost wheels"? Thanks.
Len in Kapunda

The world is not going to finish today, as it is already tomorrow in Australia and New Zealand, and other islands of foreign nations such as Guam and Samoa.

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mervk
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Re: Electronic question

Postby mervk » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:59 am

Thanks for the feedback guys, but I'm still unsure if anyone has actually said 'Yes the magnet pulse wire will read the speedo pulses' or 'No it will not'. I approached a large company who manufacture magnets telling them what I wanted them for, and they said they would not suggest a magnet without a multitude of tests, which surprised me. I'll try to post a pic tomorrow after taking one, however if you google 'Ghost wheels', plenty of you tube demos will pop up.

If there are 9400 pulses per mile from the speedo, against just 2100 from the magnets (which it is designed to read), and if it will recognize the speedo pulses (which is the question I have asked), then that would be good, as it would cut the MPH that would activate it to a quarter, which would suit me fine. But will it recognize the speedo pulses if designed to recognose the magnet pulses? And if I try it just to see, am I likely to blow anything in either the bike's speedo, or the electronic control box of the Ghost Wheels setup?

Cheers
Merv Kroll
Downunder

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BikerBuck
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Re: Electronic question

Postby BikerBuck » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:34 am

My guess is yes but my experience is with electronic cruise control. The cruise doesn't care whether the p/u is from a magnetic p/u or a speedo input. Since both your systems are from the same mfg I would guess either would work. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.

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Re: Electronic question

Postby thrasherg » Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:43 am

If it wasn't clearly stated, yes you could easily put a simple diode resistor network to get your system to read the pulses from an electronic speedo instead of from a magnetic sensor on the wheel!! However (there's always a BUT), the magnetic pulses from the wheel are used to lock and unlock your support wheels, which means the control circuit expects 4 pulses for each wheel rotation and it then converts the number of pulses a minute to calculate your speed and then locks/unlocks the retracting wheels/hydralics at set speeds. I really doubt the output from the speedo sensor produces 4 pulses per wheel revolution, this means that if you do use the speedo sensor you will find the hydralic lock/unlock of the system is not occurring at the intended speeds and may either cause a dangerous situation, or the system may just not operate at all.. I think you need to get an idea of how many pulses the speedo pickup produces for each revolution of the wheel, then we can better answer if you have a real solution or not? What is wrong with using the 4 magnets on the back wheel and a pickup sensor?

Gary

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mervk
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:51 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1986 1200 SEI and Trigg Trike kit.
1993 'Black Beauty' 1500 SE and chair.
1993 GL1500 Trike.
+ about 20 bikes from 1914 to current.
Contact:

Re: Electronic question

Postby mervk » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:19 pm

Gary, this is a second hand unit I bought, and the magnets are still attached to the seller's rear wheel. When I approached a magnet manufacture to buy some magnets, they got all technical, saying I couldn't just use any old magnets, and many tests would be required to determine the correct ones. However, let's change tack here. Can anyone recommend what type of magnet would be required? The only clue from the installation manual is the phrase 'Handle magnets with care, as they are fragile when not attached to something'. The array of magnets available is mind blowing, from 'rare earth' magnets,'neodymium magnets', 'ferrite magnets', etc. etc. For someone such as I, with little electronic or electrical knowledge, this is rather daunting. I guess the stronger in terms of magnetism, the better, maybe? So which of these would be the strongest? And which would be the most 'fragile' when not glued to something?

Cheers
Merv Kroll
Downunder

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WingAdmin
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Re: Electronic question

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:10 am

Neodymium magnets are very powerful (they are also classified as rare-earth), and are relatively fragile, so I suspect this might be what you're looking for.

More important is the orientation of the magnetic field. Depending on how the magnetic field is presented, it is going to induce a positive voltage pulse, a negative voltage pulse, both positive and negative pulses (either one could be first), or more. This will also depend on how the magnet is oriented on the wheel.

The amplitude (voltage) of the pulse will depend on the strength (and type) of magnet, as well as the distance between the magnet and the pickup coil.

The best thing to do would be to measure the pulse on the pickup coil while the wheel is being rotated. That will give us a better idea.

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mervk
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:51 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1986 1200 SEI and Trigg Trike kit.
1993 'Black Beauty' 1500 SE and chair.
1993 GL1500 Trike.
+ about 20 bikes from 1914 to current.
Contact:

Re: Electronic question

Postby mervk » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:38 pm

Gee, thanks for this reply - it was just in time. I was about to order ferrite magnets, however have now ordered "Neodymium Cylinder - 9.5mm x 10mm". They are ridiculously cheap, with the postage being the main expense. Guess Mr. Google will tell me how to orient them for a positive output.

Don't know why the company who made these wheels went bust, as they made a good quality product. However I'm working in the dark on this project, adapting them to fit a bike they weren't designed for, so have mounted them on a "Simulator" first to familiarise myself on how everything works - hydraulics, electronics etc. So not rushing it. Certain they'll be the best thing since sliced bread once installed and will give updates here as I proceed. In the meantime, I'm keeping my eye open for another second hand set to replace the sidecar on my 1500 GW.

Cheers
Merv Kroll
Downunder

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WingAdmin
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Re: Electronic question

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Oct 27, 2015 8:41 am

Are you sure they're out of business? A quick search turned up this:

http://www.trikealternative.com/ghostwheels/

Also their Wing-specific product:

http://www.trikealternative.com/retractatrike/

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mervk
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:51 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1985 GL1200 LTD
1986 1200 SEI and Trigg Trike kit.
1993 'Black Beauty' 1500 SE and chair.
1993 GL1500 Trike.
+ about 20 bikes from 1914 to current.
Contact:

Re: Electronic question

Postby mervk » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:31 pm

Yes, unfortunately. New business at their premises, as well as one of their dealers, have confirmed they are no more. I guess their website will disappear when the current domain subscription expires. Which is a shame, as I bought a Retract-a-Trike kit from them a couple years ago, which I still have, and they were quality construction and the guys there were easy to get on with and most helpful.


Merv Kroll
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