Goldwing CNG conversion?


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
  • Sponsored Links
ratherdashing59
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:28 am
Location: Oklahoma
Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 Aspencade

Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby ratherdashing59 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:55 pm



Has anybody tried to do this yet? I haven't seen much in the web about bikes with CNG but I would think that if there was a good candidate it would be a goldwing. I have an old GL1100 and I am looking into the option of a conversion as an alternative to rebuilding the carbs



User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17689
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:07 pm

ratherdashing59 wrote:Has anybody tried to do this yet? I haven't seen much in the web about bikes with CNG but I would think that if there was a good candidate it would be a goldwing. I have an old GL1100 and I am looking into the option of a conversion as an alternative to rebuilding the carbs


How much would the tank weigh, and what kind of range would you get? Unless you're going to go with a carbon fiber tank, you're left with steel, and that's pretty heavy...

User avatar
bdukes
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:23 pm
Location: Kingman, Indiana
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100A Aspencade
1994 GL1500A Aspencade

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby bdukes » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:34 pm

It's been a couple of years ago . A guy on NGW site converted his 1100 to run on propane.He set a forklift cylinder where the false tank was.

User avatar
MikeB
Posts: 1609
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Tacoma, WA
Motorcycle: 1998 - GL1500 Aspencade.
2003 - GL1800A

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby MikeB » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:37 pm

bdukes wrote:It's been a couple of years ago . A guy on NGW site converted his 1100 to run on propane.He set a forklift cylinder where the false tank was.

I bet that did a lot to add to the aesthetic value of the bike. Kind of like having an old one pound coffee can tie wrapped to your handlebar for a cup holder. :lol:
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

User avatar
RoadRogue
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: Castlegar BC, Canada
Motorcycle: 1997 1500SE

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby RoadRogue » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:29 am

Converting instead of rebuilding a set of carbs? Seriously? How big would the cylinder have to be to give you the same range? Where would you mount it?What's the cost of the conversion? Enquiring minds want to know 8-)
Ride safe, Todd
Over night campers welcome

User avatar
redbug
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:22 am
Location: Broken Arrow,Ok
Motorcycle: 1983 Gl1100I
1986 Harley FLHT

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby redbug » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:33 am

Just happen to know this, well a little. Propane weighs 4.2 lbs per gallon. Your standard 5 gallon tank will weigh 37lbs and that is 4.7 gallons leaving room for expansion of the fuel. Your walgreens propane rack sales will be between 31-32 lbs ttl weight ,they leave 15% for expansion. A empty bottle weighs aprox 16.6 lbs. avg. To stay in code, testing of the bottle every five years or replacement.
Propane is like a 100 octane (hmm) Code dates and weights are stamped on the top of the bottle for insp and to tell the fill up guy to fill by weight.
The biggest problem is ignition believe it or not. Simply put if your ingition system is not at 100% total blue spark or hotter you will have problems. Mileage is well, only thing I know on that is when I flip the burgers and dogs over and the ribs and the corn, I always run out of fuel.
" Ridin on Tulsa Time "

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17689
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:27 pm

Keep in mind we're talking about CNG (compressed natural gas), not propane.

Running at the same compression ratio, a gasoline engine will make the most power running on gasoline, less power on propane, and even less on CNG. It's a combination of energy density and ideal compression ratio. An engine designed for gasoline will make about 90% the horsepower when running on CNG. So your 81 hp GL1100 will actually be making 74 hp on CNG.

Liquefied CNG actually has a higher energy density than gasoline - one gallon of CNG has the same energy as 1.54 gallons of gasoline. On a high-compression engine designed to run on CNG, you will find that you get far more power and MPG out of CNG than you do gasoline.

However we're not dealing with an engine designed for CNG, it's designed for gasoline.

The compression ratio of the GL1100 engine is 9.2:1. You can get get away with using 87 octane in a 9:1 engine, although you may end up with some pinging (detonation) under high load. Ideally for a 9:1 engine, the lowest octane that will run without pinging at all temperatures and altitudes is 96. This is why sometimes you find the need to run premium in your bike when it is hot out or at high altitudes to prevent detonation when under load (i.e. going up mountains).

The ideal compression ratio for CNG is 13:1. CNG has an octane equivalent of about 130. If you had an engine that delivered a 13:1 ratio, you could run straight CNG in it and realize considerable power and range benefits.

Another problem with running CNG in a gasoline (9:1) engine is ignition - with the very low compression, you need a REALLY hot spark to light off the cylinder. If your ignition system is not up to snuff, you're going to have issues running CNG.

Lastly, there is one other issue: gasoline has some lubricating properties. When the fuel/air mixture is drawn into the cylinder and compressed, a very minor amount of it helps lubricate the cylinder walls and piston rings. CNG is a gas, and is injected as a gas. Running CNG denies your engine this extra lubrication. When my father worked for a government agency, the politicians of the time decided it would be a great idea to convert all the government cars to CNG, to satisfy some special interest or another.

Within 2-3 years, almost all of the converted cars started having compression issues, from ring and cylinder wear. Now these were crappy cars to begin with (mid 1980's Chryslers), but the cylinder wear was unique to the CNG converted cars.

Ted Cooper
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:13 am
Location: Gillingham,Dorset,England
Motorcycle: 1981 GL1100 Sidecar outfit

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby Ted Cooper » Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:14 pm

This runs on gas,and has done for many years. Its from The Netherlands.

User avatar
redbug
Posts: 317
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:22 am
Location: Broken Arrow,Ok
Motorcycle: 1983 Gl1100I
1986 Harley FLHT

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby redbug » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:20 pm

WingAdmin wrote:Keep in mind we're talking about CNG (compressed natural gas), not propane.

Running at the same compression ratio, a gasoline engine will make the most power running on gasoline, less power on propane, and even less on CNG. It's a combination of energy density and ideal compression ratio. An engine designed for gasoline will make about 90% the horsepower when running on CNG. So your 81 hp GL1100 will actually be making 74 hp on CNG.

Liquefied CNG actually has a higher energy density than gasoline - one gallon of CNG has the same energy as 1.54 gallons of gasoline. On a high-compression engine designed to run on CNG, you will find that you get far more power and MPG out of CNG than you do gasoline.

However we're not dealing with an engine designed for CNG, it's designed for gasoline.

The compression ratio of the GL1100 engine is 9.2:1. You can get get away with using 87 octane in a 9:1 engine, although you may end up with some pinging (detonation) under high load. Ideally for a 9:1 engine, the lowest octane that will run without pinging at all temperatures and altitudes is 96. This is why sometimes you find the need to run premium in your bike when it is hot out or at high altitudes to prevent detonation when under load (i.e. going up mountains).

The ideal compression ratio for CNG is 13:1. CNG has an octane equivalent of about 130. If you had an engine that delivered a 13:1 ratio, you could run straight CNG in it and realize considerable power and range benefits.

Another problem with running CNG in a gasoline (9:1) engine is ignition - with the very low compression, you need a REALLY hot spark to light off the cylinder. If your ignition system is not up to snuff, you're going to have issues running CNG.

Lastly, there is one other issue: gasoline has some lubricating properties. When the fuel/air mixture is drawn into the cylinder and compressed, a very minor amount of it helps lubricate the cylinder walls and piston rings. CNG is a gas, and is injected as a gas. Running CNG denies your engine this extra lubrication. When my father worked for a government agency, the politicians of the time decided it would be a great idea to convert all the government cars to CNG, to satisfy some special interest or another.

Within 2-3 years, almost all of the converted cars started having compression issues, from ring and cylinder wear. Now these were crappy cars to begin with (mid 1980's Chryslers), but the cylinder wear was unique to the CNG converted cars.



Yes as always my speed reading only saw propane, boy oh boy again.
" Ridin on Tulsa Time "

User avatar
dingdong
Posts: 3087
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am
Location: Oklahoma City
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000
1993 gl1500
2004 NRX1800 Rune

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby dingdong » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:09 am

Ted Cooper wrote:This runs on gas,and has done for many years. Its from The Netherlands.
P1010082.JPGP1010081.JPG


More info please. When you say "gas" I assume you mean CNG as opposed to Gasoline.
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Ted Cooper
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:13 am
Location: Gillingham,Dorset,England
Motorcycle: 1981 GL1100 Sidecar outfit

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby Ted Cooper » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:45 pm

dingdong wrote:
Ted Cooper wrote:This runs on gas,and has done for many years. Its from The Netherlands.
P1010082.JPGP1010081.JPG


More info please. When you say "gas" I assume you mean CNG as opposed to Gasoline.


Runs on LPG. I see it most years at various European Sidecar rallies. This company in Germany does LPG conversions to Goldwings. http://www.iwemalpg.com/Motor_index.htm

User avatar
RoadRogue
Posts: 2042
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:51 pm
Location: Castlegar BC, Canada
Motorcycle: 1997 1500SE

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby RoadRogue » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:06 pm

This now looks like a case of just because you can doesn't mean you should convert to CNG. Rebuild the carbs and ride it like you stole it. It will be far cheaper in the end. 8-)
Ride safe, Todd
Over night campers welcome

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17689
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:15 pm

Some interesting conversion pictures:

Vaporizer
Vaporizer


Tank in sidecar
Tank in sidecar


Notes from the page:
In the boot of the side-car is an LPG tank installed.
According to the size of the side-car and the wishes of the customer we can install an LPG tank from 30 up to 70 litres.

All Honda GoldWings can be done. Starting from the older GL 1000 up to the latest 6 cylinder models.
Most other motorcycles with water cooled engines can also be converted.

Motorcycle : Honda GoldWing GL1000
Engine : 1.1 L. 4 cylinder (replaced engine)
Power : 83 bhp
Gearbox : 5 speed
Year of make : 1976
Side-car : EML GT2
LPG system : Hurricane
LPG tank : 50 litres



I wonder what the range is?

User avatar
Rayvn
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:52 pm
Location: Lang may your lum reek, Washington state
Motorcycle: 2002 GL1800, 2000 Kawasaki w650, 2010 Yamaha xt250, 1994 Yamaha TW200, 1972 Honda ct-90 dual range tranny, 1968 Honda Express 102 original miles, 1982 Honda cx500 custom, 1972 Bultaco Alpina,
1980 Honda cx500 turbo..."for sale"

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby Rayvn » Tue Apr 04, 2017 11:36 am

And just where do you think you are going to get it refilled when you are riding around in Mojave desert ? Or in bum muck Montana ?

User avatar
ekvh
Posts: 178
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:52 am
Location: Grand Forks, ND
Motorcycle: 1977 gl1000

Re: Goldwing CNG conversion?

Postby ekvh » Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:54 am

https://ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... opane+wing

Builder finished the bike then got leukemia and succumbed early. In his forties.




Return to “Tech Talk”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests