to octane or not to octane.....


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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JoeCool
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to octane or not to octane.....

Postby JoeCool » Tue May 03, 2011 12:24 am



Another question to ponder.......has anyone seen a difference in gas mileage when using 87 octane or 91 octane ?



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littlebeaver
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby littlebeaver » Tue May 03, 2011 12:34 am

No difference here...I use 87...

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lbman
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby lbman » Tue May 03, 2011 5:53 am

I have Used Premium in all of my bikes for Years. after reading posts on this site I started Using regular. I Can't Tell any difference.
None what so ever. I Can tell the difference between some gas stations gas. The premiums' tend to have more additives. Shell is the best but most expensive! I carry a bottle of Marvels Mistery Oil. and put in an once every fill up. Don't know if it helps the motor that much. but it makes ME Feel Better. :D
LB

Oldsmores
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby Oldsmores » Tue May 03, 2011 6:19 am

If they have it's likely because they've been drinking it... ;)
Seriously, there's a lot of threads on octane. It has nothing to do with mileage, power, clean burning, emissions, etc, etc. It has to do with ignition temperature and timing, and unless you have pinging and knocking with the lower octane, switching to higher octane will not help whatever ails your bike.
Now, if the lower octane gas has more ethanol than the higher octane gas, that could affect gas mileage...

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dingdong
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby dingdong » Tue May 03, 2011 7:53 am

Your bike was designed to run on the lower octane fuel. Higher octane will not burn as efficiently as the lower octane because of the compression ratio. Waste of money also.
Tom

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george1e
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby george1e » Wed May 04, 2011 4:02 pm

If you run 2/3 times a week is ethnaol treatment needed? gas in my area has tested up to 25% when it is supposed to be 10

Oldsmores
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby Oldsmores » Thu May 05, 2011 7:41 am

george1e wrote:If you run 2/3 times a week is ethnaol treatment needed? gas in my area has tested up to 25% when it is supposed to be 10

Does the bike run OK? If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

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triker mike
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby triker mike » Mon May 16, 2011 1:34 am

I use 87 in the trike unless I am going on a mountain trip pulling the Kwik Kamp. Then its 91. I gave up on the milage thing when I got the trike.
Does having a short mean that the wires doen't touch???

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themainviking
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby themainviking » Mon May 16, 2011 8:13 pm

Yeah. The other day, when fuel took that big jump, the local Shell stopped their lower grade pumps and sold V-Power for the same price as regular, so rather than find a station that could sell me regular, I said %$#@ it and bought the V-Power. My bike ran like crap. I rode it about 50 klics and went home and syphoned out what I could. I will burn the stuff in my lawnmower. I refilled from a can of regular I had, and in about two klics the bike was running great again. The V-Power was 91 on the octane label at the pump. My understanding of Octane is that it is a fuel burn retardant. Higher number, the slower the burn, so it helps with pinging, like was mentioned above. I don't understand why the bike ran so poorly on V-Power, unless it was additives, but the extra octane didn't help any. (the V-Power was probably old too)

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby WingAdmin » Mon May 16, 2011 9:19 pm

It's not so much that it burns slower. Fuel with a higher octane rating can be compressed to a higher pressure before it will self-ignite and explode (causing knocking or pinging, which is detonation) instead of being ignited by the spark plug. In high-compression engines, or forced-induction engines (i.e. turbo or supercharged), fuel with high octane ratings must be used, or detonation will occur, damaging the engine. In our relatively low-compression engines, high octane fuel is not required. High-octane fuel actually contains less potential energy by volume, so you will actually reduce your power and mileage with higher-octane fuel (while paying a premium for the privilege) - exactly the opposite of what the gasoline company marketing departments would have you believe. :)

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby Oldsmores » Tue May 17, 2011 1:17 pm

WingAdmin wrote:It's not so much that it burns slower. Fuel with a higher octane rating can be compressed to a higher pressure before it will self-ignite and explode (causing knocking or pinging, which is detonation) instead of being ignited by the spark plug. In high-compression engines, or forced-induction engines (i.e. turbo or supercharged), fuel with high octane ratings must be used, or detonation will occur, damaging the engine. In our relatively low-compression engines, high octane fuel is not required. High-octane fuel actually contains less potential energy by volume, so you will actually reduce your power and mileage with higher-octane fuel (while paying a premium for the privilege) - exactly the opposite of what the gasoline company marketing departments would have you believe. :)

:!: One of the clearest and most succinct explanations of this issue I have seen :!:

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby lbman » Tue May 17, 2011 5:08 pm

hi
after reading threads i switched to regular...I went from 35-37 mpg too....40 mpg. I synced carbs while i was still using premium. I do use MMO
lB

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby mac159218 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:19 pm

I try to avoid Shell like the Plague. i used to travel all over the country installing Eathernet systems in Hotels, Motels, Food Store Point of Sale (cash registers) etc. I found that shell made my 1 ton van run so crappy that it wouldn't get out of it's own way. Since I have my 86 GL1200 Aspy, the same applies. It don't like shell any better than I do. Also I have found that if I put about an ounce of Sta-bil in with 5 gal of "10% ethenol" regular, my bike starts easier, runs better and gives me about a mile more per gallon, no matter what other brand of gas I use (except shell). Ethenol loves to attract moisture. Just a thought.

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:25 pm

WingAdmin wrote:It's not so much that it burns slower. Fuel with a higher octane rating can be compressed to a higher pressure before it will self-ignite and explode (causing knocking or pinging, which is detonation) instead of being ignited by the spark plug. In high-compression engines, or forced-induction engines (i.e. turbo or supercharged), fuel with high octane ratings must be used, or detonation will occur, damaging the engine. In our relatively low-compression engines, high octane fuel is not required. High-octane fuel actually contains less potential energy by volume, so you will actually reduce your power and mileage with higher-octane fuel (while paying a premium for the privilege) - exactly the opposite of what the gasoline company marketing departments would have you believe. :)

wingman you might be younger than a lot of us but I have to admire your knowledge, I'm sure if your a father, your children think their Dad's the smartest guy in the World...Your wife I'm sure sets you straight..ha ha.... I gotta say I have learned a sh-t load from you sir , thank you...

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby DragonRider » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:19 pm

I drove tanker truck for few years and delivered gas to stations. One trip you would carry regular gas, the next might be premium or ultra. for that matter the next load might be diesel fuel. And you will note I did not say the tanks were cleaned out first! Once empty you went and reloaded with whatever the boss said to load. and when has a tank ever truly empty?

Just something to think about.

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lbman
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby lbman » Sat Jun 04, 2011 6:25 am

Ya and you were hauling what, 10,000 gallons..I do not think this would make too much of a difference. a little #2 is good for upper cylinder lube anyway.. :D
one thing I figured out is never fill up at a station while they are getting there fuel...It stirs up crap in tanks and a person stands a chance of getting gunk. at least this stands true on Oil furnaces. I told my customers not to run there furnaces for and hour after a fill. this was proven over and over on call backs shortly after changing nozzle and oil filters. I would return to Gunked up filters. years ago I would wonder WTF? but soon realized it usually related to recent fills.
we have No control of what happens at the gas stations.
something more to think about.
LB

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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby macka » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:29 am

I don't buy shell either, I get lousy gas mileage and the butt dyno says less power. I will try the Sta bil next fill up and see what happens.

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WingAdmin
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby WingAdmin » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:40 am

littlebeaver wrote:wingman you might be younger than a lot of us but I have to admire your knowledge, I'm sure if your a father, your children think their Dad's the smartest guy in the World...Your wife I'm sure sets you straight..ha ha.... I gotta say I have learned a sh-t load from you sir , thank you...


I have a son, 10, who is a miniature me, and while he will acquiesce that I know a fair bit about a lot of things, he revels in the fact that he knows things I don't. I also have a 11 year old daughter who is a miniature Mrs. Wingadmin, on the verge of teenage hormone rush, and who thinks she knows EVERYTHING and can't be told different, regardless of the facts. She would be an Olympic gold medalist if they made arguing for the sake of arguing a sport. :)

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littlebeaver
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby littlebeaver » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:31 am

I have two girls 14 and 18, they know their limits, I just give them that look and they stop it.. I think Family is the best...I never spanked them growing up, but I have yelled at them pretty good a few times, they hate that.. Day in day out we live with each other, those that can't hack it divorce or leave, those that can find that tomorrow is always better than yesterday... :lol: seems like just the other day I had my first born in a grocery basket..Man...where does time go..sometimes I put in high octane just because, no reason...

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popcraig
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby popcraig » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:24 pm

I just want to interject a few words on ethanol. It has 2 advantages to your vehicle. First, it is an octane booster. How much octane you need does really depend on your vehicle. I was raised that all bikes HAD to run on the highest octane you could get. Then I bought a 3 cylinder, 2 cycle Kawasaki. It would not run on 91. I took it to Spain with me and could only get 85 octane. It ran fantastic. In most of my cars, tests have showed that 89 gets me better mileage than 87, except in my Saturns. No difference there.
The second advantage is that it is a moisture remover. For all of you diehard 'HEAT' users, that is mostly ethanol. If you are buying gas with 10% ethanol, you don't need it.
Happy riding to all.

macka
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Re: to octane or not to octane.....

Postby macka » Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:42 am

HEAT is mostly methyl alcohol, we use it as part of a process to make methoxy in the bio diesel process. The 2 alcohols are vastly different in properties. They both are known to boost octane somewhat, but that being said, always go by what the manufacturer recomends in the owners manual. They designed the engine, so they should know what they doing when they recomend a grade of fuel.




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