My Persistant fork problem


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virgilmobile
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My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Tue May 24, 2011 9:31 pm



2 bikes.83 gl1100 and a 84 gl1200.Both from Louisiana(who knows what coon ass worked on them)

Problem is little movement in the forks until I run over rocks or such.The forks will move up and down,even when accelerating or braking.

Driving down the road they are essentially stuck in one spot.It takes a good bump to get them to move.

My checking found the pipes are arrow straight,no twist,and without the springs the slides move very smooth full stroke without any binding at all.

What I suspected is the teflon slides were replaced with a poor aftermarket hand fitted POJ.

I tested this theory by trying the float test.
2 of us (on level ground) pushed the front end down,let it rest up and marked the fork.
We lifted the front and let it rest.***Amazingly enough it had 2.75 inches difference.Proof that it is sticking
My second test....I ran the front end into a ditch (about 2.5' deep)with the rear on the pavement.This put the forks near vertical.We ran the same test and LO and BEHOLD the resting spot was 3/8".
This proves that the teflon slides are in fact binding when at a angle torque.
The local Honda dealer will take my money and TRY to order them(no guarantee of course).
Anybody solved this problem yet?
Where can I get the right parts?
I'd hate to go to the Harley dealer(even tho the 98 fat boy uses the same 41mm pipe and shock manufacturer)



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dingdong
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby dingdong » Wed May 25, 2011 8:11 am

Tom

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virgilmobile
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Wed May 25, 2011 3:02 pm

It seems that what I get is the "one stop no stock"shopping.After some research I located a complete kit(slides,seals retainers)from jp cycles.They are listed for 86-99 harley davidson.Not surprising,they use the same brand of front end as Honda..SHOWA.The harley also has 41mm pipes.I looked at a takeoff set of slides from a 2010 HD and the slides are machined inside identical to the Wing.

By the way..The full kit is only $25 and in stock.

If this pans out i'm going to look into a kit for the gl1200.I think it has 39mm pipes.Some harleys use them too.

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dingdong
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby dingdong » Thu May 26, 2011 7:44 am

That's interesting. Keep us informed on whether this "kit" for the Harley works out. If so, it might be a good idea to make this a "how to" article.
Tom

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virgilmobile
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 26, 2011 8:00 am

Correction on the post ..The gl1200(i think) has 41mm pipes and the gl1100 has 39mm pipes.
Harley uses the same manufacture of forks as Honda gl1200.sooooo if it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck,I'll bet the beaks are the same.

I think I'm staring at the computer too much.

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virgilmobile
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 26, 2011 8:32 am

Check this out...gl1100 39mm fork slides..and a full kit for the gl1200 41mm.

http://www.retrocycle.com/CustomChromeC ... _1132.html

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themainviking
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby themainviking » Thu May 26, 2011 9:35 am

Here is a thought. It might even be a good one, but maybe not, as I know nothing about your bikes - and just a little about front forks in general.

What about stiction? Stiction begins at the axle. If the axle pinch bolts are torqued too tight it can cause stiction, which is what you are describing as your problem.

If I am out to lunch here, ignore me, but if not, check it out. I learned about this many years ago when installing a fork brace on a Harley. I did not back off the axle pinch bolts and I got about a half inch of stiction, where the forks would not rebound the full amount they should, but stopped a half inch short. After I backed off the axle pinch bolts, and loosened and retorqued the fork brace, and then tightened the pinch bolts EXACTLY to factory torque specs, the problem was gone. It is fresh in my mind because I just bought a fork brace for my GL1800 and the instructions are very clear as to the axle pinch bolts.

Hope this is helpful - but if not, then it was worth what you paid for it, lol

Viking
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virgilmobile
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 26, 2011 10:45 am

Yes ,the problem can be refereed to as "stiction".I did follow the directions,step by step.Precision settings.Forks checked for true,straight and no twist,polished,no nicks,new seals,Slides cleaned and polished with 2000 grit wet paper.re-assembly by the book and every other article I found.

However it didn't help.The "stiction" is only with the bike on level ground.(forks at a rake)
Tilt the ass end up to get the forks vertical and the "stiction" goes away.
This proved to me that the aftermarket rebuild SOMEONE did wasn't right.

I'm trying to get new slides,mine appear that the teflon coating is mushed flat and dragging in the slides and pipe.
I believe that if it were an torque or misalignment problem it would stick regardless of the angle of the forks.

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virgilmobile
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 26, 2011 12:22 pm

Just got off the phone with Retrocycle.They didn't have the complete 41mm kit in stock yet(end of june)#688308.
However they had the rest available to me in about 7-10 days.
I ordered slide bushings for the Harley
Both sizes..41mm and 39mm.one for each bike ,gl1200 and gl1100.
The cost for all the teflon slides 8 total parts.will be $40 +T T and L
The part numbers for the gl1200 are 160170...160172
The part number for the gl1100 are 160173...160174

I'll try anything once.

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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby lbman » Fri May 27, 2011 5:25 am

I have had 4 Harley's. It always irked me to here these so called Bikers sneer at a foreign made bike and shout" Buy American" .
there are so many of Harley,s parts made out of the country...I think to date Polaris parts are Made In The USA. so buy a Polaris!
Harley should advertise," Assembled IN USA."
I still Like Harley's but, for me they priced themselves out of my market. Down the Road I would like a Sunday gointomeetin bike. maybe a wide glide. always liked the way they looked. but my main ride and rain ride will be a wing.
sorry for off topic (kind of) :oops:
I just redid my oil seals. looked at the bushings and they were ok as well as everything else. No problems other than fork oil lubing front of bike and brakes.
I added progressive springs. have never been happier with ride. Wing Handles like my Beemer did Now.
good luck with your retro on rebuild front suspension. Thanks for diligence in finding part's that will work.
Do the seals fit also?
one thing my buddy said when he straighten my bent upper tubes..."Wow, these things are soft and thin"
thanks again,
LB

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virgilmobile
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 27, 2011 8:31 am

Obviously many bikes use the same parts.They rely on a handful of manufactures to provide them with the parts to build them.It's not often that you find a finished product that the seller "in store" starts from scratch to finished product.It's called ''let the other guy make it and we just put it together''.A larger profit margin.Even Harley doesn't make their engines,there made by a boat motor manufacturer.

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:09 pm

End results of rebuilding the front end of my 1200.
I purchased a set of guides($5 each) .The info says the forks on the 1200 are 41mm.So I got a set of slides made for Showa forks,41mm upper and lower.Harley parts.
Can't find the micrometer anywhere so I test fitted the upper slide,It was just a little loose,same as what came out of it.Wouldn't fit in the slide(too big)it was driven in hard.
I tried it in a 41mm slide from a Harley(showa)slide,It fit.
The lower bushing seemed to be just a little sloppy.Poor size?or worn slide.Don't know.
Apparently the 1200 fork is a different size than the Harley,even though the books say they are.
I had to increase the end gap .010" and sand off a few thousands of the back side to get the upper slide to fit snug without jamming it.
Mechanic before me lied.He didn't pull the forks and check for a bent fork.
I pulled them both.One was straight as a arrow,the other had a .032"total runout.Book says limit is .0038"
WOW . I didn't have a press with me,soooo I farmer browned it.2@ 4x4 notched blocks,20' of 2" pipe and the back end of a fork lift.
Well I got it to less than .003 total runout.
Re-assembled and it floats on a cloud.
This all took me 5 hours.Lesson learned...Don't believe anything,check everything.
It turned out OK cost wise but the aggravation,I can do without.

DragonRider
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Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby DragonRider » Sat Jun 04, 2011 5:40 am

Keep this in mind, the early goldwings (1000, 1100 and early 1200) were pretty much made in USA and used many American parts. I have found alot of SAE bolts on both my "82 and "83 GL1100's.
True alot of items were sent here from Japan, but alot of items were picked up here as well. Which is why Harley parts will work.
Keep those Honda-Davidsons running

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:41 am

Well,neither Honda or Harley made their own front shocks.Both are made by SHOWA.
I did find my micrometer ,The 1200 forks are indeed 41mm and the 1100 is 39mm.
That is what I ordered and what is marked on the package.(upper guides for 41mm forks).
When I test fitted the upper slide and squeezed the end gap closed it was sloppy.I filed the end gap until I got a good pinch on the fork.When I tried to seat it into the slide,it would bind to the fork.I removed a few thousands from the outside of the slide to make it fit snug.
After 2 hours of filing,it custom fitted and worked
It was NOT plug and play.
I'm hoping the 1100 won't give me this fit problem.

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virgilmobile
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82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: My Persistant fork problem

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:55 pm

Final results are in.
4 pair bushings ordered . 2 for 39mm and 2 for 41mm.
39mm top(slide)bushing is correct.bottom is .018" too thin.
41mm for harley is not the same as 41mm honda at all
fork slides a bit sloppy.slide bushings(top)are too large and thick.

After much modifying,adjusting,1 gallon of coffee,9 hours,1 bent fork,both fork OK.
New bushings made a big difference.




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