Gas Ain't Gas Any More


Technical information and Q&A applicable to all years and models of Goldwings
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fastf
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Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby fastf » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:28 am



I have been reading some of the problems people are having with their bikes as far as some of the bike are running.Gas 25 to 30 years ago didn't have ethanol as much and there was leaded gas.Gas is designed today for these Flex Fueled Cars and trucks and such but ethanol brings problems.Like fuel lines.O Rings and such I have read when the thing starts skipping just pour a whole can of Seafoam in the bike it will cure what is wrong with it .Not knowing what you are doing to your fuel tank or fuel system.It shocks the whole fuel system fuel tank all the way to the carbs and fuel injection if what ever came on the bike.If it is a old bike junk like varnish and rust and water and such comes rushing to your fuel filter and sometimes the fuel filter doesn't catch it then is where you have problems. Seafoam a whole can is set up one pint treats 8-25 gallons folks you only have 6 gallon tank on Goldwings.Seafoam is good stuff no doubt stop pouring a whole can in the tank .Getting back to gas if you own a weed wacker or chain saw or two stroke those clear plastic hoses it will look macoroni it softens them up or makes them crack same as four stroke engines on a Goldwing you can pour Staybil fuel Stabilizer in the tank to keep it the fuel stabil during the winter months Seafoam does the same just don't pour a whole can in the tank.



snackpak
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby snackpak » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:27 pm

I only pour a little less than half to store away for winter. Then when the next season rolls around I run that tank out, Then I pour a bottle of Techron in. Never had a problem.

snackpak
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby snackpak » Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:32 pm

Seafoam that is, I stop using Stabil.

fastf
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby fastf » Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:07 pm

Thanks for reading my tread you know what to do but some people don't and with these forums and people telling them they wouldn't know what ethanol and seafoam is doing to their bikes fuel system .

fastf
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby fastf » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:58 am

snackpak wrote:I only pour a little less than half to store away for winter. Then when the next season rolls around I run that tank out, Then I pour a bottle of Techron in. Never had a problem.

At least you are not going all out on the Seafoam and also keep the fuel system well taken care of .But you will be surprised the ones in the forum the bike starts running rough they will come to the forum and someone would say pour a bottle of Seafoam in the tank they poured a can in the tank not reading how much that can of Seafoam treats as far as gallons .But why pour Techron you just had a cleaner all winter long in the tank that is just as good or better?One thing about it your fuel system ought to be clean as a whistle.

greatketch
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby greatketch » Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:26 pm

I found a marina that sells gas without the ethanol, most likely because it the marina is owned by Native Americans who may not be bound to federal regulations. Nevertheless, I use that in the 1200GL, and I also treat with Stabil. I used the Seafoam in the crankcase of my large lawnmower and was impressed with the cleansing rinsing attributes of the product.

I shall use Seafoam in the tank as well.

The good ol' days: gas without ethanol and at 28 cents a gallon.

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tfdeputydawg
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby tfdeputydawg » Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:43 am

Not trying to start an arguement here, an opinion only.
1. It has never been proven to my satisfaction that up to 10% ethanol in gas causes any kind of "problems" in any gasoline motor of any kind or vintage! Having said that:
2. Flex fuel cars use E-85 and unless there is at least $1.00/gal lower cost for it over reg. unleaded, you are wasting money buying it because of the drop in gas mileage! Figure was derived from testing the gas mileage on a Chev. full size pick-up truck.
3. I find a average 10% loss in gas mileage in my vehicles when using the "up to 10% ethanol" gas over "Real" gas. Based on that our government is wasting our tax money again subsidizing the production of gas spiked w/ethanol. Just imagine if every vehicle on the road suddenly gained 10% fuel mileage!
Again, not abasing anyone, just stating an opinion.
Plus:
I use Stabil in all my gas engines for winter storage, in the proper amounts and make sure I run the motors long enough to insure the mix is circulated completely through the Carb(s) or injector system.

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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby detdrbuzzard » Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:48 am

gas didn't have ethanol? then what the heck was gasohal but an early attempt to get ethanol in you gas tank
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salmon2007
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby salmon2007 » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:31 pm

deputydawg: i live up here in maine and we use all alcohol gas.i have a boat,snowmobile,ice auger,chainsaws and motorcycles so have learned the hard way about all about it.it will run alright in almost everything unless u get water-moisture in your system.the alcohol will go after the water and settle out with it.-phase seperation-if u are using 87 octane fuel without the alcohol mixed in u are left with about 84-85 octane fuel and motors don't run well or at all on it. my answer has been to use nothing but 90-91 octane fuel and have not had any problems since just my 2 cents

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tfdeputydawg
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby tfdeputydawg » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:22 pm

Ethanol vs alcohol
Do you understand the distinction? It's pretty easy, really. Ethanol or ethyl alcohol is one type of alcohol. It's the only type of alcohol that you can drink without seriously harming yourself, and then only if it has not been denatured or does not contain toxic impurities. Other types of alcohol include methanol (methyl alcohol) and isopropanol (rubbing alcohol or isopropyl alcohol). 'Alcohol' refers to any chemical having an -OH functional group. In some cases, you can substitute one alcohol for another or use a mixture of alcohols. If a specific alcohol is mentioned for a project, don't make substitutions. This is especially important if the alcohol is to be used in foods, drugs, or cosmetics..

"87 octane fuel without the alcohol mixed in u are left with about 84-85 octane fuel"
I woud really appreciate seeing some proof of that statement. If true, please explain why gas mileage is always approx. 10% better using 100% gas vs using 10% ethanol :?:

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salmon2007
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby salmon2007 » Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:25 am

deputydawg:gas that is refined to be ethenol is only refined to 84-85 octane then the alcohol is added when the transport truck picks up at terminal-i drive one-it is metered in as u load.we had a class on it and they said that regular unleaded without the alcohol is only about 84-85 octane.i agree with u that u get less fuel miles with ethenol so the idea that we are saving oil is stupid but it comes from the government so what else is new-if u have a outboard motor run it in a tank and while its running add a little water to the tank and real quick it will quit-believe me i have been all through it-but if u have premieum fuel in the tank it will stay running because super is refined to 88-89 octane before adding alcohol thats why it cost more

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tfdeputydawg
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby tfdeputydawg » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:42 am

Thanks, If I understand correctly now, when the ethanol is mixed in the octane then becomes 87 for regular. Is that correct?
I do enjoy learning more all the time.

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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:43 am

Fuel with a higher octane rating can be compressed to a higher pressure before it will self-ignite and explode (causing knocking or pinging, which is detonation) instead of being ignited by the spark plug. In high-compression engines, or forced-induction engines (i.e. turbo or supercharged), fuel with high octane ratings must be used, or detonation will occur, damaging the engine. In our relatively low-compression engines, high octane fuel is not required. Current high-octane fuel actually contains less potential energy by volume, so you will actually reduce your power and mileage with higher-octane fuel (while paying a premium for the privilege) - exactly the opposite of what the gasoline company marketing departments would have you believe.

There are several methods of raising octane in fuel - and none of it has to do with more or less refining. Octane in fuel is raised with additives - one of which is ethanol. Lead used to be used as an octane booster, but it's banned virtually everywhere in the world now except for use in aircraft engines (in 100 LL - low lead avgas).

Ethanol has a lower energy content than gasoline, which means it takes more of it to produce a given amount of power. This translates into lower mileage. The higher the ethanol content of your fuel, the lower mileage you will get from the fuel.

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salmon2007
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby salmon2007 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:36 pm

Wingadmin:What you are saying is true our wings do not need higher octane fuel but they also will not run on 84 octane fuel.e10 fuel will absorb water much quicker the reg unleaded without alcohol so much more so that e10 fuel has a shelf life of 90 days from the time the alcohol is put in.thats under ideal conditions if condensation or other migration of water exists you will get phase seperation which is the alcohol and water mixing and going to the bottom so if you are using 87 octane e10 fuel you are left with 84-85 octane fuel which will not run at all.so what i do is run premium fuel in all my engines and even if i don't use them for a couple of months or i get a charg3e of moisture they will still run and i don't have to drain the tank and start over which i had to do many times when first using e10 and the gas i dumped cost a lot more than the difference in price between reg and premium

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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:26 pm

Salmon, you are 100% correct. Because the ethanol will bond very readily to moisture, it will do so when moisture is introduced, and as the resultant ethanol/water mixture is heavier than the fuel, it will separate and fall to the bottom of the tank, i.e. phase separation. This causes two problems:

- Your engine can suck in pure ethanol/water mixture instead of fuel from the sump at the bottom of the tank
- The remaining fuel, now missing the ethanol, has a much lower octane rating, and can cause serious detonation

This is a much more serious problem in boats, where there is plenty of moisture, and fuel tanks can sit undisturbed for some time, encouraging phase separation.

So...don't let fuel sit, use stabilizers if possible (I use a marine stabilizer), and start with higher octane fuel, particularly if it's your "storage for the winter" tank full of fuel.

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salmon2007
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby salmon2007 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:24 pm

Wingadmin: Iwill tell you that there is a product that will put fuel back in phase and although i do not like any add to gas products it is a good emergency cure to have on hand in a boat.its called k100 and it is used by fuel companys in 55 gal amounts in underground fuel tanks if fuel goes out of phase to restore the fuel to usable state.i have used it ounce and it got my motor running again in about 30 min.

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Timma04
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Re: Gas Ain't Gas Any More

Postby Timma04 » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:33 pm

I started using a product called 'Startron' last year with very good results. It is enzyme based and not some alcohol induced formula. Has anyone else used this product?




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