Cold Start


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Ride4fun
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Concord, California
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500SE
2009 Honda Shadow

Cold Start

Postby Ride4fun » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:03 pm



I live near San Francisco so when I say cold start the term is relative. I have noticed that now that the weather is much cooler that my 1500SE is very hard to start. I made sure that tank is full. I use the choke - just cranks, twist the throttle a couple of times and then set the choke - just cranks. I am sure that the choke works because when it starts the rpms are high. If I keep at it, it will backfire and then start soon after. After it is warm, it starts every time, without the choke. It runs fine after it is started. The battery is only 6 months old and I use a batter tender.
Any suggestions?
Thanks, Bonnie


Bonnie
1995 GL 1500 SE (Green)
2009 Honda Shadow (Candy Apple Red)

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virgilmobile
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Re: Cold Start

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:17 pm

I'm just guessing here.Currently my new to me 88 gl1500 is long cranking before starting.Same story that you have.
Carbs just off and polished.I did find that the vacuum fuel shutoff was bad (leaking),so I bypassed it temporally.This may be causing the problem.I believe the carbs set higher than the fuel and without the vacuum check valve in line,the fuel gets drawn back into the tank emptying the carbs.???.
I'm going to put in a electric check valve to see if it helps.
It may be also a restricted fuel filter or the one in the tank.....Just guessing obviously.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Cold Start

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:25 pm

It's definitely not something that is normal just due to cold weather. I had my bike out in below-freezing temperatures last night, and from dead cold, I put the choke on full, didn't touch the throttle, just touched the starter, and it started up instantly. My 1100 is the same way.

My wife's little XV250 likes a couple squirts of fuel from the accelerator pump (twist the throttle twice) before starting if it's very cold out.

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virgilmobile
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Re: Cold Start

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:19 am

Just for humor,before I add the check valve,I'm gonna get to the drain plug and see if there is any gas still in the carbs.
If they are very low on fuel,that would explain why it takes 7 to 10 seconds to start it,even with a choke on.

Ride4fun
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:33 pm
Location: Concord, California
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500SE
2009 Honda Shadow

Re: Cold Start

Postby Ride4fun » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:02 pm

I agree that I don't think it is normal. In addition to the 1500 I have a 2009 750VT750c2 and it starts right up no matter the temp.. I have only used the choke 3 times since I bought it new and one of the times was to test it. This is the reason I have written in re my 1500, the difference is just not right.
Bonnie
Bonnie
1995 GL 1500 SE (Green)
2009 Honda Shadow (Candy Apple Red)

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virgilmobile
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84 GL 1200 I

Re: Cold Start

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:23 pm

It has to be a fuel delivery problem.Just no gas getting to the cylinders when it's first cranked.The carbs must be low on fuel and it takes several seconds to fill them back up.
Unlike the 1200 carb arangement(near verticle),the 1500 carbs stand horizontal,so it wouldn't take much fuel loss to empty up the supply ports.
It's unlikely its a spark problem,but that's easy to check.Compression isn't a issue either.

I wonder if the fuel pump runs with the ignition on or only when it's cranking like the 1200 fuel pump?

If it is a leak-back problem,I could pre-charge the carbs by bypassing the relay to test it to see is it will start first crank.
If it confirms that the carbs are low on fuel,the vacuum check valve may be leaking fuel back to the tank.
I also wonder if the fuel pump has a check valve in it?? Most cars do,and I do know that if the check valve is bad,it takes a bit of cranking to build enough fuel pressure to start them.
My Jeep started about the same,crank,crank.A fuel rail pressure test showed with the key off it fell to 0 psi.The check valve was there to hold 23 psi on the rail at rest.
I know that that's fuel injected,but if the carbs need the fuel to be full,then it also needs a full system to start with to get the fuel in there fast.

Sorry,I do tend to rattle,but it helps to paint a picture in my head. ooooooo pretty colors...need more coffee :?

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ka4yqi
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Re: Cold Start

Postby ka4yqi » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:01 pm

Bonnie, give this a try. Put the choke on, the hit the starter switch (get the engine spinning) then let loose of the starter switch and see it it cranks.

Ride4fun
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Location: Concord, California
Motorcycle: 1995 GL1500SE
2009 Honda Shadow

Re: Cold Start

Postby Ride4fun » Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:03 pm

I always start the bike with the choke on and pushing and releasing the starter button. But that is not starting the bike just cranking. So today I went out, rolled the throttle slowly 3 times, engaged the choke, pushed the starter button and when I released it, the bike roared to a start.
I will try it again tomorrow.
I think that the suggestions that the fuel has drained out of the carbs is correct.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to make some suggestions.
Bonnie
Bonnie
1995 GL 1500 SE (Green)
2009 Honda Shadow (Candy Apple Red)

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virgilmobile
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Re: Cold Start

Postby virgilmobile » Sat Dec 03, 2011 10:36 am

Rolling the throttle squirts a little gas into the manifold.If the spark is a little weak,when the starter load is released the spark gets better,firing it up.I'm gonna look into this.I've heard that it's common to need a really good battery to provide enough power for the ignition and cranking.I may even modify the circuit with a power relay to the coils to alleviate the voltage drop problem in the wiring?

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keithg64
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Re: Cold Start

Postby keithg64 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:33 pm

I had this problem with mine ever sence it got cold. I thought I may have had a battery problem, I pulled it out and every cell was low on electrolite, refilled the cells, charged it up and now no problem starting.
It's not what you buy, it's what you build.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Cold Start

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:30 pm

keithg64 wrote:I had this problem with mine ever sence it got cold. I thought I may have had a battery problem, I pulled it out and every cell was low on electrolite, refilled the cells, charged it up and now no problem starting.


That can be a symptom of overcharging - too high a voltage being fed to the battery, which will boil off the electrolyte.

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keithg64
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Re: Cold Start

Postby keithg64 » Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:04 pm

I have an on board volt meter and has shown no problems, also I have recently checked the volteage with my multimeter at the battery and it has shown 13.8 to 14.15 volts at above idle and I cant remmeber what I had at idle.


It's not what you buy, it's what you build.


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