What are your views on this?


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Mercness
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What are your views on this?

Postby Mercness » Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:46 pm



This was one of the topics for my final paper in my criminal justice ethics class for the semester. Thought it was an interesting subject, wanted to see what you all had as opinions on this.

PROMPT:
Is it ever ethically acceptable to torture a person in the War on Terrorism? Explain.


For the record: YES, my paper is already done and turned in. So, I will not be using this forum as a short-cut to writing my paper.



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themainviking
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby themainviking » Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:42 pm

This has many answers. I will give one, from the perspective of a lower ranking individual in a military force.

When ordered by more senior military personnel to gain answers that will save many lives, yes, it is ethically acceptable. (the ethics question then reverts upward) Also I said ethically acceptable, which is not the same as morally acceptable. A junior ranking military person does not have the right to refuse a direct order in a combat theater.

However, as I was a more senior military person, my personal answer is no. The Geneva convention, which is binding on "our" nation, supports and even mandates my personal answer. Torture is not permissible. We have tried our own for contravention of this same Geneva convention. They were found guilty, stripped of rank, released from service and incarcerated.

As I never took a criminal justice ethics class, I could be way out to lunch on this, :lol: but as a former member of our military, I ain't so sure. Kill em all and let God sort em out.
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby HALBUDD » Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:53 pm

WAR. Im also ex military and if I had a prisoner that info about an ambush against my troops to bad for him!! Its War not a game and I would be hard press to follow any rules about torture,as im sure saving my brothers in arms would be my goal. I want all our troops to be able to come home to there family's and live to be old men and women. I know this opinion may not set well with some folks but its mine and thats just how i feel about it... Hal P.S let us know what your grade was on the paper
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:36 am

No, it's not ethical to torture a terrorist because in this Nation there are laws against it..I don't always agree with them but you must or you may find yourself behind bars yourself......Now just because there are laws doesn't mean I wouldn't make the SOB talk to save my fellow American's if they are threatend... What I'm saying is I would break those laws and ethic rules and suffer the consequences for my fellow Americans.. But there is one thing, I would need proof the terrorist knows some information before I acted on anything harsh.. But no it's not ethical...It's also not ethical if they are threatening us on their end..

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby dingdong » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:34 am

There are certain circumstances when the decision needs to be made to extract information that may /will save thousands of lives. Neither ethics nor morals should be considered.
Case in point: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Among the crimes to which this monster has been linked are the plot to blow up a dozen airliners over the Pacific, the truck-bomb massacre at the U.S. embassies in Africa, 9-11 and slashing the throat of Daniel Pearl.
Why is it okay to kill them as with Bin Laden but not okay to water board them? I really wonder about us sometimes!
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby themainviking » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:44 am

Ethics come from core beliefs and the religious and moral beliefs that we are raised with drive these Ethics. That is why it is okay for them but not for us. Their beliefs are, in some ways, so foreign to us that they could have been founded in another dimension. Case in point - where in our beliefs is it okay to commit suicide while wiping out women and children... Our biggest problem is that our beliefs get in our way. Their belief is that we should all be wiped out - period. Not to get political, BUT, if we do not wake the frigg up, they will be running our countries and anyone who is not of their beliefs had better beware. Have a look at France. It is close there. I still say torture is ethically wrong, but I would still use it. As has been mentioned - there is a point at which each of us has to decide if we need to set our morals and ethics aside.

And I wish to know also, the original posters answer and grade on his answer, :lol:
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:15 pm

I second that, what did you write on your paper there fella..What were your views..Did you get a good grade? :D

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby torino73 » Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:57 pm

If a terrorist who has or will kill innocent American civilians is captured, there should be no problem using whatever means available to extract information. If he wishes to kill us why should we hesitate to torture him?

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:41 pm

I think this post was designed to see just how radical us Americans's really are.. :x

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby vtxcandyred » Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:56 am

I truely believe it would depend on the country we were warring with. In this time and place I say YES. LOOK at what they have done. Public beheadings is not the norm so torture would be alright. Lets say if it were England or some other CIVILIZED country I would disagree. Two pennies.

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby riffraff » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:59 pm

Justice or ethics? The two are polar opposites more often then not, and don't belong in the same sentence. Ethics in criminal justice is a very slippery slope. I'm against all the plea bargaining that's being called justice, when it's a cost cutting measure that is taking president over true justice and being held accountable for your actions. Crime rates go up because there's no real punishment for the crime. The consequences are nonexistant or marginal at best. I guess I would be considered an animal! I'm a believer in the death penalty, and letting the punishment fit the crime! :twisted:

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby Bouvier1 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:29 am

In England this would never be considered justifiable no matter the consequences - however as an individual I can see both sides of the arguement. If torture saved lives than yes it should be done (if it is considered OK in their country then don't cry if your side is tortured) but if it is not practiced then no as the 'defender/aggressor' you should not use torture.
Again it will boil down to what each individual calls torture- at the present time we have Habbu Hansa (hook handed who will soon come to you) - and we had him in home confinement for 22hrs a day with restricted contact by phone etc. To the modern world being without contact and restricted to the home would be torture (ask any teenager who uses a mobile). However similarly we have others who we cannot deport due to human rights 'just in case they are killed by their own side'. Even though they have been proved not only to be terrorist but murderers. It is about time these 'good' people opened their eyes and stopped looking at the world with rose tinted glasses.

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riffraff
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby riffraff » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:58 am

It's not torture. It's enhanced interogation. When you consider that terrorism is a particularly brutal and random style often involving non combatants wrather than the opposing military forces, enhanced interogation is fair play in my book :evil:

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby Davek80514 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:27 am

If it will save one American life. Hook his nuts up to the negative side of a generator and put the positive post up his backside.
If they are going to play terrorist, they have no rights.
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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby Oldsmores » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:05 pm

No.
Before people start calling me a commie hippie **** - I served in the military and currently have a son and a son-in-law on active duty. First of all, the "War on Terrorism" is a fictional conflict, but I won't get into that. Much worse things were done (by both sides) in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, etc. than were done to us on 9/11. John McCain is a true American hero who was tortured by the other side, and he has spoken quite eloquently about why we cannot condone torture. America's claim to fame is that we are a nation of laws, and we believe in individual rights. We cannot defeat an alien mindset by becoming what they are. We are better than them - at least I'd like to think so. If we're not, what are we fighting for?
Even if you don't buy the ethical argument, information extracted by torture is notoriously unreliable. There are modern interrogation techniques that yield better results without getting out the thumb screws.

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby 86GW1200 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:40 pm

As a general rule I would say no. Further, if it did occur and it was not approved at a high level, I would say the person(s) involved should be in the Brigg forever.

That being said, if the circumstances were right and the actions were approved, I would have no problem with turning some SOB inside out, literally, to protect our troops and way of life.

I have personally seen what happens when these types of actions are given free range or/and a blind eye is turned by the person(s) in charge. It needs to be a very rare event. When the enemy feels it is O.K. to send women and children into a place occupied by civilians and blow all of them to H....extreme measures can be justified.

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby cardinal » Wed May 02, 2012 1:45 pm

We need to get a better definition of "Torture".
Is keeping them awake for X hours torture?
Is leaving them in a cold dark room, not cold enough to cause hypothermia, but close.
Is playing Russian Roulette with an empty gun torture?
Slapping with an open hand, away from the ear, torture?

If things like the above are what we are talking about.....have at it and torture them until they rat out theier mother!!

If we are talking drilling through the Knee cap with a 1/4 inch drill, burning out eyes, cutting out tongues, pulling finger nails out, cutting off appendages, ect. ect. then No....we are a better people than that.

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Re: What are your views on this?

Postby terryj » Mon May 14, 2012 3:22 pm

This is an old post, but an interesting one. Being a combat veteran I would use any means needed to extract information if I knew that the person was in a position to have valued information. I think it come down to "intent", to torture a person just for the sake of torture is wrong in any case and should be delt with by the harshes means, to torture some one in hopes of saving lives, be it civilian or military, in my view is acceptable.




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