K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter


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Mooseman
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K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby Mooseman » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:56 pm



I have used K&N for years. It appears that old paper filter just may do a better job.
Just a little information for thought. Intresting reading.
http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/K-and-N-filters.htm


Enjoy the ride. They are all good, just some better than others.
Mooseman

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:19 am

I've read similar studies elsewhere saying basically the same thing - K&N flow lots of air, but they also let lots of dirt and crap into your engine, accelerating engine wear.

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby cbx4evr » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:42 pm

I'm no engineer but when a filter manufacturer boasts that their filters pass more air I thought it would have to have bigger holes in the media to allow that. To me bigger holes will also pass more dirt. I just couldn't buy into the hype. Have a K&N filter that I removed from my Goldwing first time I was in there. Didn't know it had a K&N and I had a paper one in hand.
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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby thrasherg » Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:53 pm

cbx4evr wrote:I'm no engineer but when a filter manufacturer boasts that their filters pass more air I thought it would have to have bigger holes in the media to allow that. To me bigger holes will also pass more dirt. I just couldn't buy into the hype. Have a K&N filter that I removed from my Goldwing first time I was in there. Didn't know it had a K&N and I had a paper one in hand.


Just to be clear, to flow more air, the filter has to allow more air to pass, and that can only happen by a combination of 2 things, more surface area of the filter medium or larger holes in the filter medium!! K&N has always claimed it packs more material into it's filters so same size holes but more area, so greater air flow!! this means the filtering is just as good as paper, but the filters cost more due to having more filter medium (greater surface area) packed into the filter. I have no idea if K&N really do have more area in their filters, but I just wanted to clarify CBX's statement that it must have bigger holes to pass more air!! That is not a true statement, it can have bigger holes, more surface area, or a combination of both (I suspect K&N falls in this last category, but its just my assumption, no proof either way!).

Gary

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby raycw » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:01 am

I've got a different take on the K&N filter debate.

Regardless of the air flow, size of filter holes or filter material I think the biggest downfall of the K&N is the lack of
proper servicing. The filter requires regular cleaning, drying and re-oiling. Since this requires a 'cleaning kit' from K&N it's not only
expensive but very time consuming. K&N recommends air drying the filter. This can take overnight on a warm/dry day.
The spray on oil supplied by in the kit can be over applied and cause rich running.

For me… I prefer the OEM filter. I tried the K&N filter in my 1500 and ended up giving it to another forum member.

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby newtothe1996wing » Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:36 am

The K+N issue is deep and long, lol.
All I can say is that I have used the oiled gauze filters for over 30 years. Would the engines have lasted longer if not, who knows, but I have put many hundreds of miles on on and off road bikes, cars, trucks, commercial lawn mowers and not ever found "dirt" residue in the intake track of them.
One component that is not add to the "larger hole means more dirt passing" is the sticky oil. With paper pore size is all you have, with pleated gauze u have multi layers and oil.
Very thick foam off road filters with no oil will pass a lot of dirt and sand right through.
I will continue to use them.
tom........................

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby Fatwing Chris » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:09 pm

Go to any of the ATV Forums(where they actually need a good filter) and check it out.There is a guy on one of the forums that has an automotive machine shop that thanks K&N for keeping him in business.He challenges you to pull your filter out and then run your finger around the throat of your carb or throttle body.If there is anything on your finger then your filter is not doing it's job.K&N no doubt is a good filter for race applications,but for your average street use I wouldn't have one if you gave it to me.Been a licensed auto-tech for a hundred years and just never bought into the K&N hype.Any little bit of HP gains that you feel is more than likely in your head.Any possible damage to my Wing(not to mention the extra intake noise)isn't worth it to me.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:48 am

When I bought my Goldwing, the PO had installed a K&N filter. Like at least one other person here, I bought the OEM filter without knowing the MC had a K&N installed. I replaced the K&N with the OEM filter, and have tossed the K&N into the trash, not that I have anything against the filter or the company, but because my motorcycle intake was designed with a certain amount of flow restriction in the airbox, and I think Honda knows more about how their intake should work than I do.

I'm trying to keep everything as close to original as I can, which can be difficult at times due to discontinued parts. I'm sure K&N makes wonderful products. Several riders I know use their air filters and they are very satisfied with them. I went back to OEM to reduce the number of variables I have to consider when trying to keep the bike running as well as it is possible for it to run.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby Hondawingnut » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:10 pm

thrasherg wrote:
cbx4evr wrote:I'm no engineer but when a filter manufacturer boasts that their filters pass more air I thought it would have to have bigger holes in the media to allow that. To me bigger holes will also pass more dirt. I just couldn't buy into the hype. Have a K&N filter that I removed from my Goldwing first time I was in there. Didn't know it had a K&N and I had a paper one in hand.


Just to be clear, to flow more air, the filter has to allow more air to pass, and that can only happen by a combination of 2 things, more surface area of the filter medium or larger holes in the filter medium!! K&N has always claimed it packs more material into it's filters so same size holes but more area, so greater air flow!! this means the filtering is just as good as paper, but the filters cost more due to having more filter medium (greater surface area) packed into the filter. I have no idea if K&N really do have more area in their filters, but I just wanted to clarify CBX's statement that it must have bigger holes to pass more air!! That is not a true statement, it can have bigger holes, more surface area, or a combination of both (I suspect K&N falls in this last category, but its just my assumption, no proof either way!).

Gary



Just count the number of pleats in the OEM filter verses the K & N filter. That will tell you which one has more surface area. And it is the surface of the element they plays the key roll not the thickness.

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby flogger » Sun Jan 17, 2016 1:28 am

Fatwing Chris wrote:Been a licensed auto-tech for a hundred years...

But your profile says you are only 60?
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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby newtothe1996wing » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:47 am

[i]If I am repeating previously presented information, please forgive me. [/i]

The theory of "only passing more air in two ways" is not completely accurate. You have not considered the filter media, pleated paper, treated paper, oil wetted cotton media (K&N), foam, oiled foam, as well as others.
You either trust the K&N style filter, or you dont. I have used them in Many applications, for many (over 30) years, from off road bikes to diesel trucks, to power equipment. I have NEVER had an issue with them passing any more contaminates then other options, and in Most cases less. And the $ saved by being able to clean and have a cleaner, better flowing filter media.
Just my $.02.

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby dingdong » Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:26 am

newtothe1996wing wrote:[i]If I am repeating previously presented information, please forgive me. [/i]

The theory of "only passing more air in two ways" is not completely accurate. You have not considered the filter media, pleated paper, treated paper, oil wetted cotton media (K&N), foam, oiled foam, as well as others.
You either trust the K&N style filter, or you dont. I have used them in Many applications, for many (over 30) years, from off road bikes to diesel trucks, to power equipment. I have NEVER had an issue with them passing any more contaminates then other options, and in Most cases less. And the $ saved by being able to clean and have a cleaner, better flowing filter media.
Just my $.02.



Curious to know how you determined this. ???
Tom

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby Fatwing Chris » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:07 pm

flogger wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:Been a licensed auto-tech for a hundred years...

But your profile says you are only 60?



OK you got me there.It feels like a hundred years though.
Something else that no one has mentioned is that for the most part OEM filters will flow more air(unless they're plugged) than will most likely ever be needed all by themselves,so you really don't need the added air flow of the K&N in the first place.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby flogger » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:56 am

Fatwing Chris wrote:
flogger wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:Been a licensed auto-tech for a hundred years...

But your profile says you are only 60?



OK you got me there.


Hope it made you smile like it did me!
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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby AmsTech » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:55 pm

Yup, K&N "Junk" Don't waist your money! They rely on the oil wetted gauze filter media to catch the dirt with large holes for air flow. You can use a flash light shine it through the filter and see the light from the other side.
I have seen too many Oil Analysis reports with High Silicon content "Dirt" and to check air filter. K&N> But it's cleanable and can reuse it, true, people tend to over oil the filter, oil runs into air box and clogs up the AIR MASS sensor giving you Check engine lights. I wouldn't even think about using K&N in a Racing application. Just use your OEM filter for your Gold Wing. As for racing there are way better air filters available.

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Re: K&N Air filter vs Paper Filter

Postby WingNutJC » Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:45 am

K&N air filter performance is the greatest snake-oil con-job on the planet !!!

Yes - K&N offer gazillion mile warranty, but how is an air filter ever going to wear out ???

Instead, the engines underneath these air filters will certainly wear out because they allow shirt-loads of fine, abrasive particles through their filters into the bores, and further, into the crankcase oil, where these particles will continue to abrade every moving surface into which they will come into contact.

Oh sure - coat the filter 'stuff' with K&N oil to catch/trap tiny particles - that would otherwise have flowed through the filter and onward into the engine.

OK OK ... more to come ... pls be patient ...




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