Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim


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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by OldZX11Rider » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:39 pm



They are cheaper. They last longer too, and I don't have an unlimited budget to buy MC tires that cost more and more each year.
When I read about others riding "the darkside" for years without problems, just being cheaper does make it attractive.


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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:46 pm

FM-USA wrote:
flogger wrote:The thing is, we get smarter... The bottom line seems to be that they are cheaper... Wow...
Would you clarify this please. Mainly who is 'they'.
Thanks
Very sorry, not they as in who does it... They means they the tires/or non use of helmets are cheaper (than buying the alternative)

Again, not referring to anyone... Sorry and Thanks!
Last edited by flogger on Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:56 pm

OldZX11Rider wrote:They are cheaper. They last longer too, and I don't have an unlimited budget to buy MC tires that cost more and more each year.
When I read about others riding "the darkside" for years without problems, just being cheaper does make it attractive.
All of your points are very true and as I told the other poster, I was in no way using they to refer to the people... I hope I did not offend and apologize if I did...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri Feb 05, 2016 3:09 pm

OH, no offense, just didn't know who or what.
It was kinda like Yoda speak. (j/k)
___________________________________________

If it's ('x' parts) cheaper, sure most peeps will buy it.
If it's unsafe less will buy it because some will take that percentage risk.
If it causes death, no one will buy it.

If it's more expensive, most peeps will buy it.
If it's unsafe, more will buy it because most will take that percentage risk.
If it causes death, everyone will buy it.

JUST weighting the options. :roll:

Then, I wonder.
Because of SOME politicians choices, is that how they think?


.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:28 pm

I don't agree with cheaper, have paid as much for car tire as have for motorcycle tire. Will say car tire rides better, brakes better, last longer and when the GL1500 takes 4 hours to replace makes car tire a real winner.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by dennislp » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:43 pm

when it comes to my bike I use what I like best a austone I did find a few low end mc tires fore less but when I work on my personal bike I don't care about price its my baby and never left me stuck.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatwing Chris » Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:34 am

The thing that bothers me most about these CT posts is that the naysayers seem to focus on 2 things.One being that some engineer decided that the CT can't possibly stay on a MC rim and two that we only use CT's because they are cheaper.As far as one goes that part has been thoroughly disproved over a 15 year period(at least as long as the 1800 has been out) and millions of miles.As far as price goes yes there are cheap car tires as well as really expensive CT's being used.Some would go with the cheapest tire available whether they were running MT's or Ct's.If you're cheap your're cheap,period!To me price is a benefit,but it's so far down the list of benefits it's all but forgotten to me.

BTW Do you know why there are mechanics?Engineers need hero's too.We make the crap they design work.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:29 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:As far as price goes yes there are cheap car tires as well as really expensive CT's being used.Some would go with the cheapest tire available whether they were running MT's or Ct's.If you're cheap your're cheap,period!To me price is a benefit,but it's so far down the list of benefits it's all but forgotten to me.

BTW Do you know why there are mechanics? Engineers need hero's too.We make the crap they design work.
As for me, I'm not cheap, I AM FRUGAL.
I will spend if it is necessary. I ponder & weigh my options.

But many times cheap can be unsafe.
More times than not cheap is more expensive.

"If you must do it twice, do it wrong the first time." - FM
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:20 am

Fatwing Chris wrote:The thing that bothers me most about these CT posts is that the naysayers seem to focus on 2 things.One being that some engineer decided that the CT can't possibly stay on a MC rim and two that we only use CT's because they are cheaper.
Not really... I just believe that they are unsafe... After reading all the information and mulling over all the discussions it's just my opinion that I have come to... Goes with the Pro or Nay helmet thing... Some believe in wearing them and some don't...

Both are personal choices we are all free to make and we all, must live with our choices... and if you were a friend of mine that rode up in my driveway on a car tire without a helmet, I'd still consider you my friend and have a beer with you...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:36 am

Generally speaking...

"It's amazing how forward
some backward thinking people are."


THEN there's . . . .


;)
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:18 am

Battles that never end. . .

AC or DC
AM or FM
Sideband or Shortwave
Aliens
Motor Oil
Deer Whistles
DarkSide

Interesting list, please add more.
:)
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:55 am

FM-USA wrote:Battles that never end. . .

AC or DC
AM or FM
Sideband or Shortwave
Aliens
Motor Oil
Deer Whistles
DarkSide

Interesting list, please add more.
:)
Goldwing vs Harley
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatwing Chris » Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:58 am

FM-USA wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:As far as price goes yes there are cheap car tires as well as really expensive CT's being used.Some would go with the cheapest tire available whether they were running MT's or Ct's.If you're cheap your're cheap,period!To me price is a benefit,but it's so far down the list of benefits it's all but forgotten to me.

BTW Do you know why there are mechanics? Engineers need hero's too.We make the crap they design work.
As for me, I'm not cheap, I AM FRUGAL.
I will spend if it is necessary. I ponder & weigh my options.

But many times cheap can be unsafe.
More times than not cheap is more expensive.

"If you must do it twice, do it wrong the first time." - FM
Sorry!That was a bit harsh.Was just trying to make a point.There's some car tires that I wouldn't use for a wheel barrow let alone on my Wing.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:43 pm

Still, one of the most amazing things I have seen was at a Goodyear tire plant. Of the dozen or so bikes in the lot, all but 2 were on car tires. Bikes belonged to the same engineers who said it won't work, but they were still trying to evaluate the data. While it was clear that safety was not an issue there was a legal aspect that could not be overlooked at this time. The other 2 bikes could not find tire narrow enough to fit. It was clear the Eagle was a favored choice so I took two home for my Vstars. They did tell me that Goodyear car tires are run by more than 2 dozen custom bike builders rather than a motorcycle tire due to weight restraints. Sounds like somebody thinks they are safer.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:10 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote: Sorry!That was a bit harsh.Was just trying to make a point.There's some car tires that I wouldn't use for a wheel barrow let alone on my Wing.
OH GOLLIES, it wasn't at you at all. Just some STUFF put together for conversation.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:14 pm

robb wrote:Still, one of the most amazing things I have seen was at a Goodyear tire plant. Of the dozen or so bikes in the lot, all but 2 were on car tires. Bikes belonged to the same engineers who said it won't work, but they were still trying to evaluate the data. While it was clear that safety was not an issue there was a legal aspect that could not be overlooked at this time. The other 2 bikes could not find tire narrow enough to fit. It was clear the Eagle was a favored choice so I took two home for my Vstars. They did tell me that Goodyear car tires are run by more than 2 dozen custom bike builders rather than a motorcycle tire due to weight restraints. Sounds like somebody thinks they are safer.
There's a difference between tire ENGINEERS and US.
WE don't hold back what we say.
ENGINEERS have to, to keep their jobs.
;)
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by 5m0k3y » Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:20 am

Has anyone tried a 185/60 r16 ct on a 1500? its .3" taller than the 195/55 r16, and a slight bit narrower, but should still be shorter than the austone tire. Im not pulling a trailer so I don't necessarily need the shorter tire and tire rack carries a toyo proxes in the 185/60.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... mpare1=yes

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Breakdancer » Sat Mar 12, 2016 11:41 am

FM-USA wrote:Battles that never end. . .

AC or DC
AM or FM
Sideband or Shortwave
Aliens
Motor Oil
Deer Whistles
DarkSide

Interesting list, please add more.
:)
Blondes or Brunettes :lol:
Blue Skies...Scott ;
PGR

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatwing Chris » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:37 am

flogger wrote:
Fatwing Chris wrote:The thing that bothers me most about these CT posts is that the naysayers seem to focus on 2 things.One being that some engineer decided that the CT can't possibly stay on a MC rim and two that we only use CT's because they are cheaper.
Not really... I just believe that they are unsafe... After reading all the information and mulling over all the discussions it's just my opinion that I have come to... Goes with the Pro or Nay helmet thing... Some believe in wearing them and some don't...

Both are personal choices we are all free to make and we all, must live with our choices... and if you were a friend of mine that rode up in my driveway on a car tire without a helmet, I'd still consider you my friend and have a beer with you...
You should check out a thread on the GL1800Riders.com on how many safe miles that have been logged on CT's.They've been running CT's since the 1800 came out and I've never read anywhere where an accident or tire failure was due to running a CT.If someone has actual proof that they are unsafe then I would love to see it.If there was such failures then it would be all over the internet already.After all mostly what you hear on any forum is the bad stuff.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:51 am

Fatwing Chris wrote:You should check out a thread on the GL1800Riders.com on how many safe miles that have been logged on CT's.They've been running CT's since the 1800 came out and I've never read anywhere where an accident or tire failure was due to running a CT.If someone has actual proof that they are unsafe then I would love to see it.If there was such failures then it would be all over the internet already.After all mostly what you hear on any forum is the bad stuff.
Not necessarily... Really apples and oranges... This is not a well known nor a well publicized topic. I bet no studies exist or have been done and no one would have done reports like you suggest. I default to a good practice in life, use things for the way they are designed; you don't use things for ways other than that... There is sound theory why the manufacturers, shops, insurance companies, etc are mum or not assisting and don't recommend the practice. There are reasons the engineers design car tires for cars and motorcycle tires for cycles and there are reasons why they are different... Motorcycles are a touchy subject and politics abound when they are mentioned. That's why helmet laws were repealed and you can't use that to argue that going without a helmet is safer...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Mon Mar 14, 2016 8:37 am

Studies do exist are are ongoing, I compiled data for 2 years with any bike running a car tire or rear motorcycle tire on front. Around 4 million miles and no injury or harm to bikes. Low air is more notable on car tire and some thought run flats meant they never needed to check air.
The same engineers that say it is unsafe also note that until the 70'same motorcycle tires were flat tread. As motorcycles became more popular and readily avaliable it was determined that a rounded design made it easier to lean and balance, thus any idiot who could ride a bicycle could ride with a certain amount of safety. Tread life is a trade off for safety and ride ability. Big fear is lack of maintenance when high mileage tires are used.
Car tires have proved better stopping, riding in rain control, better ride, and longer life. Like them or hate them, I think we may see a new tire in the future more suited for cruisers. It still remains a choice, do what makes you feel safe.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Rednaxs60 » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:16 am

Have a CT on my '08 1800 and have rode it for over 10,000 Kms without a problem. Have friends who ride HDs and have followed me trying to find fault in the handling of my bike, but to no avail. HD also used CTs on its bikes years back.

I have read a significant amount of information regarding this issue. The issue regarding the area that the edge of he tire seats on the inside of the rim is 0.05mm smaller than that of a CT rim. Other than this there really is no difference between a MT and CT. It has been discussed that the sidewalks are not constructed the same and that is true, but the difference is not substantial enough to cause a failure as some think. Not keeping correct air pressure in a CT is a more dangerous than putting one on a bike.

It has been mentioned that a CT on a bike will cause the sidewall to roll such that there could be a failure. I submit that a CT rolls more on a car than on a bike. CT manufacturers are not having to change the sidewall design because tires are being produced at a lower profile than in years past (the smaller the sidewall - the more rigidity within the existing design), but the flip side is the rim manufacturers are producing bigger diameter rims to suit - looks good but it's a trade off between, design, production and cost.

I think we've all seen cars with the spare donut tire on that is meant as a stop gap measure being used for weeks on end and at speeds exceeding the design. I would submit that we on bikes are probably more anal about what we do on and to our bikes, and tend to be more safety conscious.

This subject will always be controversial until the tire manufacturers provide tires that will give more longevity, and compensate for the size and weight of these touring bikes. There is a flip side to this as well. If you do not have to change the tire as often, will there be some maintenance that should be done, get done - lubing the drive line on the GW for instance.

We live in a land of choice that without we would be extremely unhappy. I'm glad that there are forums to discuss this and other issues. Allows me to go through the information, research other sites, and make an informed decision (as much as possible). There is no right or wrong, just a personal decision. Sure would be boring if we were all the same.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:29 am

robb wrote:Studies do exist are are ongoing, I compiled data for 2 years with any bike running a car tire or rear motorcycle tire on front.
This thread has 195 posts, 22,556 views, is over 8 pages long, and is 5 years old... and not one study, not one report, not one scientific document, nor one engineering report, study, finding, or anything- nothing has ever been cited or linked supporting the claims... It is emotional and it is opinion and it remains a personal preference... I have to see something concrete to make me go against the manufacturers (Honda) or override their engineers. I need something proven before I go against the tire makers, not just one but all of them...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:29 pm

It's only the motorcycle tire makers who say it's bad. From the point a car tire maker says it's unsafe there will no longer be car tires on trikes. Not all motorcycle wheels are different from car wheels, but high speed sport bikes are. The information is out there if you are willing to dig for it. Honda has never voided a warranty because of car tire use, but they will not support its use or install by them. It's a CYA world we live in.
It's like telling a blind person that the sun is shinning on a 20 degree day.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatwing Chris » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:05 pm

flogger wrote:
robb wrote:Studies do exist are are ongoing, I compiled data for 2 years with any bike running a car tire or rear motorcycle tire on front.
This thread has 195 posts, 22,556 views, is over 8 pages long, and is 5 years old... and not one study, not one report, not one scientific document, nor one engineering report, study, finding, or anything- nothing has ever been cited or linked supporting the claims... It is emotional and it is opinion and it remains a personal preference... I have to see something concrete to make me go against the manufacturers (Honda) or override their engineers. I need something proven before I go against the tire makers, not just one but all of them...
Like I said before go and check out the thread I pointed out earlier.As far as there being no documented studies to say that it's safe,there are also no documented studies to prove that it's unsafe.So if that's the case then you need to go by real life experience and there's a ton of real life experience in the thread I pointed you to.

BTW Just so you know engineers don't always get it right.Usually some mechanic makes whatever they come up with work a lot of the time.


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