Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim


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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:14 pm



Every bike I've owned since 1975 has run a car tire. I started when it was acceptable and lots of times it was because a motorcycle tire was unavaliable. Maybe half a million miles without a single issue.

The length of time and amount of responses has no bearing on a topic that can change day by day. Tires today are different than 2 years ago and will continue to change. Most engineers are in the same boat with me, smothered by confidentiality contracts that limit what can be said. Nothing ever gets right without first seeing what is wrong.



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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatboy46 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:28 pm

Switch to a Trike... you get car tires on the back for traction, stopping power with larger contact patch, x 2 and run a REAR tire on the front, mounted backwards.. that's what I was told by the Trike manufacturers..

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Paulcf » Mon May 02, 2016 4:02 pm

The key / elemental question I have about using a CT on the rear rim of a Honda GL1800 (or any other motorcycle for that matter) is the following:

If this is no risk, no problem, works, etc. then WHY haven't the tire manufacturers seized upon this and advertised into this "new market" in the various motorcycling websites, periodicals, and even with, for example, the Goldwing Road Riders Association? If Khumo, for example, knows one or two of their CT's are approved for use on GL1500/GL1800 motorcycles you would think that they would have done this to open up a huge market for sales of their product?

Ergo I should expect major tire manufacturers to be in attendance at the WingDing and Aspencade rallies, for example? How about Sturgis?

So, if not at rallies touting the benefits of using a CT, then why not?

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Mon May 02, 2016 10:54 pm

They closers than you know, you just don't know who they are. I did for 2 years and it was a blast.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatboy46 » Tue May 03, 2016 4:01 pm

Paulcf-- likely due to liability issues. a car tire is for a car.. a MC tire is for a MC. The tire mfgs do not test their car tires on MC, nor do the test the MC tires for auto applications- although some of the little Smart cars might qualify- the old Isettas, etc.
CT on a MC? that is a riding style preference for the individual.
one thing I didn't consider- rubber compounds- I would think that MC tires are more sticky and thus less mileage..

so far, we haven't heard any real problems- I wouldn't use a CT in the front unless you have a HUGE MC..

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Tue May 03, 2016 5:55 pm

A motorcycle tire is designed specifically for a motorcycle and a truck tire for heavy use, but what you call a car tire is DOT for street use. People assume it to be car only, but that did not necessarily come from the makers.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Wed May 04, 2016 8:37 am

flogger wrote:
robb wrote:Studies do exist are are ongoing, I compiled data for 2 years with any bike running a car tire or rear motorcycle tire on front.
This thread has 195 posts, 22,556 views, is over 8 pages long, and is 5 years old... and not one study, not one report, not one scientific document, nor one engineering report, study, finding, or anything- nothing has ever been cited or linked supporting the claims... It is emotional and it is opinion and it remains a personal preference... I have to see something concrete to make me go against the manufacturers (Honda) or override their engineers. I need something proven before I go against the tire makers, not just one but all of them...
In respect to your thinking, our Earth is flat.
Last edited by FM-USA on Wed May 04, 2016 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Wed May 04, 2016 8:42 am

robb wrote:A motorcycle tire is designed specifically for a motorcycle and a truck tire for heavy use, but what you call a car tire is DOT for street use. People assume it to be car only, but that did not necessarily come from the makers.
I've also seen CAR TIRES used as Band Saw.


HAH! i just realized it's a Honda motor and that band saw went DARKSIDE!

.

.
Last edited by FM-USA on Wed May 04, 2016 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Wed May 04, 2016 8:43 am

FM-USA wrote:
flogger wrote: In respect to your thinking, our Earth is flat.
You have that backwards, I am scientific, quantitative and data oriented. You are the ones making claims based on emotion and desire and no facts...I would prove the earth is round and that we do orbit around the sun...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by WingAdmin » Wed May 04, 2016 8:51 am

OK, please keep the discussion to the use of car tires, not to one another's personal beliefs or emotions or anything else.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Wed May 04, 2016 9:00 am

WingAdmin wrote:OK, please keep the discussion to the use of car tires, not to one another's personal beliefs or emotions or anything else.
. . . . noted.
Last edited by FM-USA on Wed May 04, 2016 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Paulcf » Wed May 04, 2016 11:33 am

Ok, I have posted before about using a car tire (CT) on a rear rim of a Goldwing vs. a motorcycle tire (MT). I decided to get the facts. So far I have found out the following:

Khumo says CT are not tested for use on a motorcycle. They suggest speaking to Honda.
Dunlop (makers of both CT and MT) will not comment.
I contacted Honda Canada, they will not comment on this! I sensed 'lawyers' were on the call listening in.
My local authorized Honda franchised dealer service manager said they will install a CT if insisted by a client but they will do everything to dissuade the customer. He said, "I am sure that all the Honda engineers have looked at this over the years and are much smarter than we are and would have put a CT on the Goldwing if it was safe to do so. Fact is for the few we have installed, they return saying it doesn't feel right on corners and go back to a MT".
Others said (riders and 2 other dealers) if you can afford a Goldwing, surely you can afford to have the proper tires on the motorcycle?

That's all from your cub reporter out in the field. Ride safe.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Wed May 04, 2016 1:38 pm

My Austone is nearing it's last rights,.... I mean revolutions, its wear bars are ALMOST touching pavement.
When I remove this tire I'll be able to tell Y'all how much, if any, the bead conformed to the rim.
Looks like it will not make my projected 80,000 miles, be about 5K short. What MT can make that claim?
.
A tire is a tire is a tire. It goes round, contacts the ground and nary makes a sound.
[Shame Anti-DARKSIDE'rs don't do the same]
.
If a giant farm tractor tire could fit a bike, I'm sure someone would try it.
NO WAIT... one manufacture did!



.
Last edited by FM-USA on Wed May 04, 2016 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by flogger » Wed May 04, 2016 6:37 pm

FM-USA wrote:
WingAdmin wrote:OK, please keep the discussion to the use of car tires, not to one another's personal beliefs or emotions or anything else.
. . . . noted.
Same here, my apologies to you both...
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatwing Chris » Thu May 05, 2016 7:02 pm

Paulcf wrote:Ok, I have posted before about using a car tire (CT) on a rear rim of a Goldwing vs. a motorcycle tire (MT). I decided to get the facts. So far I have found out the following:

Khumo says CT are not tested for use on a motorcycle. They suggest speaking to Honda.
Dunlop (makers of both CT and MT) will not comment.
I contacted Honda Canada, they will not comment on this! I sensed 'lawyers' were on the call listening in.
My local authorized Honda franchised dealer service manager said they will install a CT if insisted by a client but they will do everything to dissuade the customer. He said, "I am sure that all the Honda engineers have looked at this over the years and are much smarter than we are and would have put a CT on the Goldwing if it was safe to do so. Fact is for the few we have installed, they return saying it doesn't feel right on corners and go back to a MT".
Others said (riders and 2 other dealers) if you can afford a Goldwing, surely you can afford to have the proper tires on the motorcycle?

That's all from your cub reporter out in the field. Ride safe.
Here we go again with the thinking that we only run CT's because they are cheaper than MT's.Some of the CT's used(run flats) are just as much or more money than a MT.And even if that were true it's so far down the list of benefits of running a CT it's all but forgotten about in most conversations.

Personally I'll never go back to a MT as long as I'm riding the 1800.Can't say for the next gen Wing because it may not work that well on it,but it sure works good on the 1800.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Paulcf » Thu May 05, 2016 7:35 pm

Most say it's due to cheaper cost of tire. Many more say longer range/miles which means lower cost.

$30K motorcycle, save $100?

I have a Tesla car. I should try MT for it, so it can corner better, yeah! I will have to get some big wide MC tires. It can be done, should it be done?

Frankly I don't care if people put tractor tires on a GL, I just find it interesting as all heck! I am MORE interested in how the human psyche works "I am smarter and figured out something that no engineers can or would dare think about" kind of attitude or "if I can do it, it must be right", and so on! That's what fascinates me. People will convince themselves of anything.

As Mr. Spock would say "Fascinating".

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Thu May 05, 2016 9:47 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:Here we go again with the thinking that we only run CT's because they are cheaper than MT's.Some of the CT's used(run flats) are just as much or more money than a MT.And even if that were true it's so far down the list of benefits of running a CT it's all but forgotten about in most conversations.

Personally I'll never go back to a MT as long as I'm riding the 1800.Can't say for the next gen Wing because it may not work that well on it,but it sure works good on the 1800.
It took me a good year of reading and asking questions before going DARKSIDE. I tried to find negatives of such an endeavor. Believe it or not, I found none. Safety was paramount in my decision, I wasn't tempting fate with my loved one[s]. But after mounting the Austone I found this tire has so much more traction.
Then 3 years ago I hit a patch of Black Ice in a sweeping turn. Well this "CAR TIRE" I truly believe saved me from disaster. I slightly rolled off the throttle and then there was more grip from the rear tire on that ice and I felt the bike softly jerk back straight. OH, I hit Black Ice in the past on normal motorcycle tires... I went down like I was thrown down. No WHAM, just BAM, down!
Like you Chris, after I found the longevity probability of this CT did I come to a new enlightenment. Lower overall cost, tho it was NOT my main intention but part of my overall question & answers search. Remember, safety was paramount? Ya just gotta remind SOME PEOPLE of that fact. Then there was a smoother ride, less 'tar snake' tracking and the ability to edge bridge over potholes.
BOY DO THE BENEFITS OF DARKSIDING ABOUND! So I bought a spare Austone and is currently triple plastic bagged and stored in the basement for future use. ;)

BTW:
It takes more than a sledgehammer to get some folks to wake up.
There's those who live their whole life with extended blinders. (called tunnel vision)
:? And you know the really-REALLY odd thing is?
We don't condemn them for their choices.
;)
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by robb » Fri May 06, 2016 7:16 am

I could not justify a cheap tire, Michelin cost more than mt. After the stroke my balance sometimes comes into question. The more flat pattern allows me to balance bike with little effort. That leaves one hand free to enjoy that popcorn while riding.

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri May 06, 2016 9:20 am

I can buy Elite 3's tires cheaper than the Austone, does that make the E-3 a cheap tire?
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri May 06, 2016 10:04 am

Way back the caveman had problems with the wheel...
it kept falling over.

His solutions...


But it kept falling over.


Not only did he improve his idea...
a new business began.


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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Fatwing Chris » Fri May 06, 2016 5:26 pm

Paulcf wrote:Most say it's due to cheaper cost of tire. Many more say longer range/miles which means lower cost.

$30K motorcycle, save $100?

I have a Tesla car. I should try MT for it, so it can corner better, yeah! I will have to get some big wide MC tires. It can be done, should it be done?

Frankly I don't care if people put tractor tires on a GL, I just find it interesting as all heck! I am MORE interested in how the human psyche works "I am smarter and figured out something that no engineers can or would dare think about" kind of attitude or "if I can do it, it must be right", and so on! That's what fascinates me. People will convince themselves of anything.

As Mr. Spock would say "Fascinating".
Your biggest problem is that you have way too much faith in engineers.Licensed auto-techs like myself usually make **** work that the engineers come up with so I have little to no faith in them.I'll believe real world testing over some over paid engineers guess as to what is going to happen.Guys have been running CT's since the 1800 came out for millions of miles and I've never read anywhere that an accident could be attributed to a CT or that a CT had come off of a motorcycle rim.

What I find fascinating is that engineers believe that what they think is the gospel.A degree doesn't come with common sense.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Fri May 06, 2016 6:12 pm

FAITH in engineers? Is there such a thing? I mean REALLY!
I've been through several different machine shops, some home businesses on up to Alis Chalmers engine div..
NO engineer I know of in those businesses has ever went out and tested what they designed. They got PEOPLE for that, expendable people. Well, Craig Vetter is one exception that I personally know of who does test what he designs & builds.
ANYways...
Here in CT on motorcycle land, we are the expendable ones BUT we have more seat of the pants knowledge those engineers will ever have.

RIDE SAFELY ON ;)

"No matter what kind of tire your rolling on, keep it round."


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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by minimac » Sat May 07, 2016 8:08 am

I tried it. I love it. Not just on my goldwing, but on my two scooters, also. As FM said, the benefits abound, but haters and unbelievers will continue to hate and unbelieve. Some put way too much faith in science and engineers, others can't or won't think outside of the box, and still others will condemn those that just don't follow the crowd, totally discarding the testimony and personal experiences of thousands who have tried it. They just can't accept the FACT that people try it and like it. They feel it is their god given duty to inform you that it can't possibly be safe, and will quote chapter and verse some engineers theory. These posts are futile and a waste of time. Neither side is going to convince the other. Usually, the non-believer tells the darksider how dangerous it is and how cheap you are. The darksiders usually state right away that's it isn't for everyone, but list some of the advantages they've discovered, including much longer tire life, higher(safer) weight capacity,better ride quality and better adhesion. None of which matters to the unbelievers. Some even make up their own "facts" such as insurance won't pay for an accident if it's discovered there's a car tire on a crashed bike, which is a bald faced LIE. And so it goes on and on and on ad nauseum.....

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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by Rednaxs60 » Sat May 07, 2016 10:36 am

Have a PVT (CT) on my 1800 and yes, I enjoy it immensely. Next tire I will be more discriminating with the tire profile, more rounded than square.

Read an interesting article in Motorcycle Consumer News about the load rating of a motorcycle and how we affect it. Yes, tires are rated for different loads, but there are other issues at hand. The PVT does give me a better load rating than an MC tire; however, I put the PVT on because of longevity (3 sets of tires in a cruising year gets expensive). Scalloping of the front tire is non-existent as well. Have 10K Kms on the front now with no scalloping and should get at least 10K Kms more.

The issue of load rating did not enter into my decision because the bike still has a Ministry of Transporation (MOT) approved load rating. This rating is based on brake design, suspension, bearing design (wheel, swing arm, steering stem) and a host of other considerations. Putting a car tire on does not and cannot change this.

Have a Dodge Dakota 1/2 ton and have discussed my options to increase the load carrying capacity. I can put extra springs on, change tires, and such; however, should I overload the truck and MOT pull me over, regardless of the upgrades, I will be fined and could possibly have the truck impounded and have to unload it. A bike is no different. We must use a modicum of common sense when we load up our bikes, and there are no tires out there that can change the design and approved load limits.

Having stated the above will I still use a PVT on my bike(s) - definitely. How we load our bikes when we tour is in my opinion more critical than putting a PVT on.

Just a few thoughts on the issue.

Cheers
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Re: Darkside Tech: Using Car Tires on a Motorcycle Rim

Post by FM-USA » Sat May 07, 2016 12:22 pm

Fine thoughts Rednaxs60.
Tho of all the parts in a wheeled vehicle with rubber tires filled with air, the tire is the weakest link of the whole suspension system.


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