"The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info


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deanbw
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"The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby deanbw » Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:42 am



I had to buy a new (used) final driven flange and final driven gear assy. I also bought a wheel to go with the flange because I bought a very nice '84 flange and my bike is a '86.
I read a lot of posts about what fit what, some were contradictory to other posts so I thought I would research myself.
Some said '84-85 pin diameter was different from '86-87, wrong - no difference in pin diameter or in pin circle diameter. the only difference is the pins in the '84-85 are about .050 longer than the '86 -87, not enough to matter.
I found some wheels online shown as say '85 were really '86-87, I don't think they are purposely misrepresenting the parts, I think someone may have changed a wheel/flange at one time and the guy parting it doesn't know the diffrence in years. Because of this I thought I would share some info that I hope will help keep people from getting wrong parts as they are needed and used is all there is.

First off, any final driven gear assy from '84 to 87 will work on any '84 to 87 bike.
The '84 - 85 flange has a longer center bore and is smaller I/D than the '86 - 87.
The wheel for '84 - 85 has the hub turned where the flange slides over, the '86 - 87 does not have the hub turned.

(Just a side note....the driven flange from the '88 - 89 1500 will work on the '86 - 87 wheel)

Below are pictures that I think will help understand what to look for when buying replacement parts.
driven flage for '84-5, note long center

driven flange for '86-7, note short center - ('88 -89 flange is same)

wheel for '84-5, note turned hub

wheel for '86-7, note hub not turned

I hope this helps some of you some day, I know I had a hard time finding any definitive info.
I'm glad I found nice parts, it payed off nicely as you can see below




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skier
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby skier » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:08 pm

Let me ask a question. Both of your flange pictures ('84-'85 and '86-'87) have five pins, and both of your wheel pictures ('84-'85 and '86-'87) have six flange pin holes. I agree that any '84-'87 final drive will fit on any gl1200 bike, but the number of flange pins needs to match the number of holes in the real wheel, and I don't believe that is the same between the '84-'85 and '86-'87. Everything works as long as the flange matches the wheel. I think it comes down to the pin count, and not the pin diameter.

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deanbw
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby deanbw » Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:47 am

The flanges have six pins, you just cant see them behind the paper. this is why the 88 - 89 1500 flange will work on the 86 - 87 wheel because they are dimensionally the same and have six pins, in 90 they went to five pins.
You can believe anything you want, I'm just giving you the facts, I have all combinations and can slide any flange in any wheel, the only thing different is the center and now people know what to look for so you can pick and choose parts to get the best of what is out there as I did. Why settle for a crappy wheel just because the flange is good? or buy parts you don't need. If your wheel is good just buy the flange, it's very simple to tell the difference and get what you need if you look at the pictures. The clean parts in the pictures are on my bike now, six pins, six holes, small o/d on wheel hub, small bore longer center on flange, doesn't get much easier.

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MikeB
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby MikeB » Thu Feb 26, 2015 12:58 pm

Nice write up Dean. The 1200 crowd will certainly appreciate it.
MikeB
Tacoma, WA, USA

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HawkeyeGL1200
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1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:52 am

I agree. I know I appreciate it every time a member takes the time to spell something so clearly.. and in this case, it appears there was some money spent to get to the truth! Thank you!!!

MikeB wrote:Nice write up Dean. The 1200 crowd will certainly appreciate it.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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deanbw
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby deanbw » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:23 am

HawkeyeGL1200 wrote:I agree. I know I appreciate it every time a member takes the time to spell something so clearly.. and in this case, it appears there was some money spent to get to the truth! Thank you!!!

MikeB wrote:Nice write up Dean. The 1200 crowd will certainly appreciate it.


HA,HA...yes there was a few dollars spent but everything is useable so I don't mind. If eating top ramen a couple nights leads to learning something we all can use...then it's worth every penny.
Thank you guys, for the nice words. We all need to help each other to keep these things going.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 9:46 am

Excellent write-up, extremely informative. Thanks for doing it. Have a few queries regarding the final drive/rear end of the 1200.

Almost finished my maintenance on my '85 LTD and I was browsing the different threads for additional information. Came across a thread regarding the final drive/u-joint for the 1500 and the conversation went to the dampers in the wheel itself. The rubber dampers in a 1200 wheel apparently cannot be renewed according to the Haynes manual, wheel replacement required.

I was also told that the final drive on the LTD is slightly different than the other 1200s.

Is there a work around for these rubber dampers found in the rear wheel? Is the '85 LTD final drive assembly slightly different than other 1200s, and finally, can a 1500 rear end be retro fitted (think I read somewhere that this is possible).

Will continue to browse this forum and others, fascinating this world of older GWs.

Cheers

Ernest
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

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deanbw
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby deanbw » Fri Feb 05, 2016 12:59 pm

well, the final drive unit is the same part number regardless of model, the only thing I have heard is for 87 they made it quieter and smoother, don't know if that is true or not because it is still the same part number as the others. If it is 84 to 87 final drive, it will fit any 84 to 87.
No work around for bad rubbers, new wheel is needed, cheap on e bay, I paid about 50 bucks with free shipping for one.
Yes you can use the 1500 drive unit but you need the whole rear end assy brakes, wheel, drive flange (or 86-87 1200 drive flange if your using 88-89 1500) wheel. You are going up an inch in tire diameter as well.
Here is a link to a 1200 running the 1500 rear.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15720

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Rednaxs60
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby Rednaxs60 » Fri Feb 05, 2016 6:08 pm

deanbw wrote:well, the final drive unit is the same part number regardless of model, the only thing I have heard is for 87 they made it quieter and smoother, don't know if that is true or not because it is still the same part number as the others. If it is 84 to 87 final drive, it will fit any 84 to 87.
No work around for bad rubbers, new wheel is needed, cheap on e bay, I paid about 50 bucks with free shipping for one.
Yes you can use the 1500 drive unit but you need the whole rear end assy brakes, wheel, drive flange (or 86-87 1200 drive flange if your using 88-89 1500) wheel. You are going up an inch in tire diameter as well.
Here is a link to a 1200 running the 1500 rear.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15720


Thanks for the info. Was also on Steve Saunders site. Same info. No issue right now, will be taking the back end off starting next week. Hopefully all will be well and then it will be time to look for the future.

Cheers

Ernest
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

steveybee
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1986 GL1200 SE-i
1991 GL1500 SE

Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby steveybee » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:35 pm

For the drive flange to fit properly it needs to fit the wheel centre correctly otherwise it's relying on the drive pins to keep it central which may cause premature wear on the drive flange & final drive splines, basically it's doing both jobs for which it isn't designed to do.

Another quick guide in identifying the drive flange visually is: the early ones 1984 to 1985 the I/D number is marked on the splined side & is sunken into the casting.

The later ones 1986 & 1987 the I/D number is still on the splined side only it's raised from the surface. The GL1500 up to 1991 uses the identical flange only changing to a 5 pin configuration in 1992.

The idea is to have both the early & late wheels then all you're options are covered as it's only the drive flange & wheel that differ, the drive unit is the same that's what i did.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby Rednaxs60 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:46 pm

deanbw wrote:well, the final drive unit is the same part number regardless of model, the only thing I have heard is for 87 they made it quieter and smoother, don't know if that is true or not because it is still the same part number as the others. If it is 84 to 87 final drive, it will fit any 84 to 87.
No work around for bad rubbers, new wheel is needed, cheap on e bay, I paid about 50 bucks with free shipping for one.
Yes you can use the 1500 drive unit but you need the whole rear end assy brakes, wheel, drive flange (or 86-87 1200 drive flange if your using 88-89 1500) wheel. You are going up an inch in tire diameter as well.
Here is a link to a 1200 running the 1500 rear.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15720


Question - you mention using an '86-'87 drive flange and '88-'89 1500 wheel. Can you use this combination with the '84 to '87 FD unit, or is the outside diameter of the 1500 wheel hub too large for the '84 to '87 FD unit?
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

steveybee
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 Aspencade
1986 GL1200 SE-i
1991 GL1500 SE

Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby steveybee » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:56 pm

The actual final drive unit itself is the same that wasn't changed the only thing Honda changed was the 6 Pin flange itself + a modified rear wheel which had a different bearing fitted more robust.
If you can find any of the final drive parts for a reasonable sum it's worthwhile, you may never need them only you never know.

steveybee
Posts: 15
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 Aspencade
1986 GL1200 SE-i
1991 GL1500 SE

Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby steveybee » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:04 pm

Please accept my apologies I didn't answer your question.
YES is the answer.

All the GL1200 Final Drives are the same irrespective of early or late the differences being as previously mentioned.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby Rednaxs60 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:29 pm

steveybee wrote:Please accept my apologies I didn't answer your question.
YES is the answer.

All the GL1200 Final Drives are the same irrespective of early or late the differences being as previously mentioned.


The reason I ask is that the cush damper system on the 1500 wheel starting at 1990 can be replaced. If the wheel and FD flange fit the '84 to '87 FD unit, then it would be a good upgrade. I am looking at the cush dampers for the '85 LTD and trying to find the dimensions of the cush damper hole. I know there are good adhesives available that, if you could find a cush damper to suit, a person could take out the old and insert a new one. Always a possibility. Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest

steveybee
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1986 GL1200 SE-i
1991 GL1500 SE

Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby steveybee » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:06 pm

If you can remove the bushings which can be done i've been told.
In the UK we would call this type of bushing a Metalastic bush, you can measure the drive flange pins with a micrometer for the size of the size of the hole in the bush the outside of the bush can be achieved when the bushes have been removed & measuring the wheel where they fit. Take a few measurements to allow for any wear.
The compound you mention is called Delcon in the UK I believe & is available in three different grades & is used for exactly this kind of application.
What you could try is a search for Metalastic bushes dimensionally close to what you need, if the o/d is slightly too big it can be turned in a lathe to achieve desired size the hole needs to be close but this can be bushed to point with the bushing retained using permanent loctite.
The automotive industry uses Metalastic bushes.
With the compound you'll have to turn steel bushes for the outside & the tube in the centre.
I've checked to see if Honda stocks these.
Does this help?

steveybee
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100 Aspencade
1986 GL1200 SE-i
1991 GL1500 SE

Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby steveybee » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:14 pm

Modern specialist adhesives are terrific if used correctly + the correct type used of course. There are certain ones with a gap filling capability.
To remove the old bushes you could try heating up the wheel in the area of the bush you need to remove as aluminium expands at a greater rate than steel for the same given heat, I do believe they do have a steel outside only I could be wrong.
Please let me know how you get on.

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Rednaxs60
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Re: "The Wheel Truth" 84-87 flange/wheel fit info

Postby Rednaxs60 » Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:29 pm

Thanks for the information. Even with all the work I've done to the bike, I still have movement resulting in a "clunk/thunk/noise" in the rear of the bike on start only. It is annoying, but there has to be a reason. I will be looking at the swing arm bearings first. Not a lot in the rear end to move. Cheers


"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

Ernest


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