GONE TO THE DARKSIDE


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Sam I am
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2004 GL 1800 Goldwing

GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Sam I am » Tue Jun 30, 2015 7:49 pm



So, I've read every post,every thread, every article,every thing I could find.....
I've come up with my own opinion,and ordered a car tire for my 2004 gl1800 :o :shock: :roll:
now I'm not starting this thread to stir anything up, but more like a play by play for anyone interested
in my "hands on" experience. :)
so, to start with, when I bought my wing this spring it came with 2 extra rear wheels and both fnt & rear brand new E3s on the bike.
Now I've put a little over 1500 miles on them but dont want to wait till their junk to make the switch,for sake of a better
comparison.
step 1: check with my insurance company,,,ALL STATE,,,& my wife is actually my agent ;) she told me DOT approved no problem.
step 2: decide on a tire,,, the michelin alpin RF was my first choice but it is no longer available,, :( :cry:
my 2nd choice... Kumho Ecsta SPT KU31 XRP RF HP 195/55/16 87v :D :D :D now, thats a tire description :lol: :lol: :lol:
step 3: find the tire and get it ordered...of all places AMAZON $174.60 to my door......It will be here 7-2-15....
I'll keep you posted 8-) 8-) 8-)


Too many toys not enough time... :)

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Fatwing Chris
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:49 am

The Michelin will be back for winter(being that it's a snow tire) if you're still wanting one.On my 2nd year of Double Dark on my 04 and love it.Get it mounted up and enjoy.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

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Sam I am
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Sam I am » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:11 pm

being as I live in texas, snow tires dont happen here... :lol:
I went with the kumho... :D
step 4:get it mounted & balanced

I picked this up off craigs list cheap,,, guy retired(no pun intended)and hadn't used it in a couple years.
worked like a charm.
step 5: mount it on the bike.,,, I did a lot of research on this as well,,
decided to go with the "lay it down " method.

step 6: test drive,,,60 miles to work one way,hit every tar snake,crack,
uneven lanes, from 0-90mph no problem,I love this tire,didn't feel different, just smooth, quite and firm footed...
I'll keep ya'll posted
Too many toys not enough time... :)

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:20 pm

It looks as though your bike is just taking a rest and watching some TV!

TV-watching GL1800
TV-watching GL1800

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Sam I am » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:47 pm

with his shoes off :lol: :lol: :lol:
Too many toys not enough time... :)

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Sam I am
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Sam I am » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:52 pm

anyone trying the "lay down" method, remember, you need to go past the crash bars far enough to get the center stand down.
this will hold the rear tire off the ground just far enough to make the switch.....
Too many toys not enough time... :)

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Paulcf
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Paulcf » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:01 am

The question that keeps popping into my mind about using an automotive tire on a motorcycle is the following. Why did the engineers for Honda/Goldwing not design the bike for such a tire? Also, do cars lean over like motorcycles do? I believe car tires are designed to remain mostly in a vertical/upright position as compared to a motorcycle. Yes, the tire may be DOT approved but I am sure once a few accidents happen and insurance companies find out about the use of automotive cars on a motorcycle that they will be denying any accident claims, and you know it will come to that. (And No, I will NOT be telling anyone of course).

Then if an automotive tire fits easily onto a rear Goldwing motorcycle, why not use the same motorcycle tires on the automotive rim/vehicle? I think we know the answer to that one. Also we have learned that it is not good/safe to 'mix' different brands/types of tires on a car...I wonder, with half the number of tires on a motorcycle as compared to a car, if it is really safe to mix a motorcycle front tire with an automotive rear tire?

What we don't have "on record" regarding the 'dark side' (and why such a negative connotation/terminology for this use of an automotive tire on a motorcycle? It implies an improper/negative action as 'darkside' is taken obviously from the StarWars films) is a formal statement from tire manufacturers on BOTH tire sides, i.e. automotive tires being used on motorcycles AND motorcycle tire manufacturers speaking out AND from Honda itself?

So, I am going to contact Kumho and ask them. I am NOT about not trying to save money and I hate how expensive motorcycle tires are (yes, I know limited number of manufacturers, much lower volume of sales, etc.) and their extremely short lifespan but when I am riding my loaded 1,000lbs+ Goldwing into a sharp corner on a dark and rainy night, that is not when saving $100 or so is important...getting safely around the rain slicked corner is all that matters to me, my passenger and my Goldwing. And I don't believe, for one moment, that the corner/side (the area between the flat contact patch on the pavement when the tire is vertical and the sidewall of the automotive tire which is designed for much different loading forces in a vehicle vs. a motorcycle) or the contact patch of an automotive tire is fully designed to corner like a motorcycle tire is when the Goldwing is tipped over 20 or 30 degrees (or whatever).

I can understand that the use of an automotive tire on the rear of a Goldwing has merits in Texas where corners are not as prevalent as say, Colorado, and road surface temperatures can be exceedingly hot, leading to increased tire wear and shorter tire life and thus presents a need for an alternative solution but just because it fits doesn't mean it is safe. I am sure I can put diesel fuel in my Goldwing gas tank, it fits, but is it right? I intend to find out more about this (no, not the diesel fuel in my Goldwing! LOL) but using an automotive tire on a motorcycle.

Safe riding!
MOBILIS IN MOBILI

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:12 am

It's apparent that with the modern rubber formulations and construction methods used to make automotive tires, that typical auto tires can last 30,000, 40,000 miles or even more, while giving traction performance that exceeds the typical motorcycle tire. In the meantime, our motorcycle-specific tires provide comparatively inferior traction, and we stretch to get them to last 10,000 miles.

So my question is this: Why is it that they don't apply the formulations and manufacturing techniques used for auto tires to modern bike tires?

I will freely admit that I could be completely ignorant of a technical reason or reasons that prevent this from being done. I've just not seen this discussion raised before.

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:04 pm

Paulcf wrote:The question that keeps popping into my mind about using an automotive tire on a motorcycle is the following. Why did the engineers for Honda/Goldwing not design the bike for such a tire? Also, do cars lean over like motorcycles do? I believe car tires are designed to remain mostly in a vertical/upright position as compared to a motorcycle. Yes, the tire may be DOT approved but I am sure once a few accidents happen and insurance companies find out about the use of automotive cars on a motorcycle that they will be denying any accident claims, and you know it will come to that. (And No, I will NOT be telling anyone of course).

Then if an automotive tire fits easily onto a rear Goldwing motorcycle, why not use the same motorcycle tires on the automotive rim/vehicle? I think we know the answer to that one. Also we have learned that it is not good/safe to 'mix' different brands/types of tires on a car...I wonder, with half the number of tires on a motorcycle as compared to a car, if it is really safe to mix a motorcycle front tire with an automotive rear tire?

What we don't have "on record" regarding the 'dark side' (and why such a negative connotation/terminology for this use of an automotive tire on a motorcycle? It implies an improper/negative action as 'darkside' is taken obviously from the StarWars films) is a formal statement from tire manufacturers on BOTH tire sides, i.e. automotive tires being used on motorcycles AND motorcycle tire manufacturers speaking out AND from Honda itself?

So, I am going to contact Kumho and ask them. I am NOT about not trying to save money and I hate how expensive motorcycle tires are (yes, I know limited number of manufacturers, much lower volume of sales, etc.) and their extremely short lifespan but when I am riding my loaded 1,000lbs+ Goldwing into a sharp corner on a dark and rainy night, that is not when saving $100 or so is important...getting safely around the rain slicked corner is all that matters to me, my passenger and my Goldwing. And I don't believe, for one moment, that the corner/side (the area between the flat contact patch on the pavement when the tire is vertical and the sidewall of the automotive tire which is designed for much different loading forces in a vehicle vs. a motorcycle) or the contact patch of an automotive tire is fully designed to corner like a motorcycle tire is when the Goldwing is tipped over 20 or 30 degrees (or whatever).

I can understand that the use of an automotive tire on the rear of a Goldwing has merits in Texas where corners are not as prevalent as say, Colorado, and road surface temperatures can be exceedingly hot, leading to increased tire wear and shorter tire life and thus presents a need for an alternative solution but just because it fits doesn't mean it is safe. I am sure I can put diesel fuel in my Goldwing gas tank, it fits, but is it right? I intend to find out more about this (no, not the diesel fuel in my Goldwing! LOL) but using an automotive tire on a motorcycle.

Safe riding!


You have a far better chance of getting killed with a MT on the rear of your Wing than with a CT.On the 1800 site there are close to 2000 registered Darksiders(some have used a CT since the the 1800 first came out in 01).There's a thread asking Darksiders to add their miles ridden on CT's.Only approx. 130 have reported their miles using CT's and the total is already at a million miles.This is ongoing and was only started a couple of months ago.Ask any of those 2000(I'd be one of those)how well the CT works and if they'll ever go back to a MT.You might be surprised.The other huge myth about Darksiders is that they run CT's because they are cheap.This is one of the benefits,but it's so far down the list it's hardly worth mentioning.Ct's just plain work and work well on an 1800.As far as insur. there have been lost of members there that have contacted their insur and they don't care as long as it's a DOT approved highway tire.Maybe you should call your agent and see what he says.You might be surprised once again.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:16 pm

Fatwing Chris wrote:
Paulcf wrote:The question that keeps popping into my mind about using an automotive tire on a motorcycle is the following. Why did the engineers for Honda/Goldwing not design the bike for such a tire? Also, do cars lean over like motorcycles do? I believe car tires are designed to remain mostly in a vertical/upright position as compared to a motorcycle. Yes, the tire may be DOT approved but I am sure once a few accidents happen and insurance companies find out about the use of automotive cars on a motorcycle that they will be denying any accident claims, and you know it will come to that. (And No, I will NOT be telling anyone of course).

Then if an automotive tire fits easily onto a rear Goldwing motorcycle, why not use the same motorcycle tires on the automotive rim/vehicle? I think we know the answer to that one. Also we have learned that it is not good/safe to 'mix' different brands/types of tires on a car...I wonder, with half the number of tires on a motorcycle as compared to a car, if it is really safe to mix a motorcycle front tire with an automotive rear tire?

What we don't have "on record" regarding the 'dark side' (and why such a negative connotation/terminology for this use of an automotive tire on a motorcycle? It implies an improper/negative action as 'darkside' is taken obviously from the StarWars films) is a formal statement from tire manufacturers on BOTH tire sides, i.e. automotive tires being used on motorcycles AND motorcycle tire manufacturers speaking out AND from Honda itself?

So, I am going to contact Kumho and ask them. I am NOT about not trying to save money and I hate how expensive motorcycle tires are (yes, I know limited number of manufacturers, much lower volume of sales, etc.) and their extremely short lifespan but when I am riding my loaded 1,000lbs+ Goldwing into a sharp corner on a dark and rainy night, that is not when saving $100 or so is important...getting safely around the rain slicked corner is all that matters to me, my passenger and my Goldwing. And I don't believe, for one moment, that the corner/side (the area between the flat contact patch on the pavement when the tire is vertical and the sidewall of the automotive tire which is designed for much different loading forces in a vehicle vs. a motorcycle) or the contact patch of an automotive tire is fully designed to corner like a motorcycle tire is when the Goldwing is tipped over 20 or 30 degrees (or whatever).

I can understand that the use of an automotive tire on the rear of a Goldwing has merits in Texas where corners are not as prevalent as say, Colorado, and road surface temperatures can be exceedingly hot, leading to increased tire wear and shorter tire life and thus presents a need for an alternative solution but just because it fits doesn't mean it is safe. I am sure I can put diesel fuel in my Goldwing gas tank, it fits, but is it right? I intend to find out more about this (no, not the diesel fuel in my Goldwing! LOL) but using an automotive tire on a motorcycle.

Safe riding!


You have a far better chance of getting killed with a MT on the rear of your Wing than with a CT.On the 1800 site there are close to 2000 registered Darksiders(some have used a CT since the the 1800 first came out in 01).There's a thread asking Darksiders to add their miles ridden on CT's.Only approx. 130 have reported their miles using CT's and the total is already at a million miles.This is ongoing and was only started a couple of months ago.Ask any of those 2000(I'd be one of those)how well the CT works and if they'll ever go back to a MT.You might be surprised.You never run up onto the sidewall of the tire no matter how far you lean it over.You can scrape pegs as easy as you can with MT and still have a larger contact patch.The other huge myth about Darksiders is that they run CT's because they are cheap.This is one of the benefits,but it's so far down the list it's hardly worth mentioning.Ct's just plain work and work well on an 1800.As far as insur. there have been lost of members there that have contacted their insur and they don't care as long as it's a DOT approved highway tire.Maybe you should call your agent and see what he says.You might be surprised once again.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
Darkside # 1602

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Paulcf
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Paulcf » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:32 pm

Interesting response and I quote it here: "You have a far better chance of getting killed with a MT on the rear of your Wing than with a CT".

I would sure love to know the reason why I, and other motorcyclists, will have a "far better chance of getting killed" whilst using a properly designed tire on the rear of my motorcycle vs. a car tire. Can you show me your statistics? Do car tires afford me greater visibility? Road respect? Less likely to be rear-ended by a drunk? I really have my doubts that a car tire will absolve my risk to these, and other, perils.

Also, what about ALL the other motorcycles who don't have the ability to use a car tire on their motorcycle? I guess they are doomed to a premature death and should have bought a GL1800?

2,000 Goldwingers with an automotive tire isn't exactly a large majority of Goldwing riders/owners when you consider how many GL1800's are out there.

Thus my key points in my original post here have not yet been addressed on this topic and when I find out more, I shall post it.
MOBILIS IN MOBILI

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Fatwing Chris » Wed Jul 08, 2015 7:56 pm

The 2000 are only the ones registered on a particular sight.Check out the Riding on the Darkside site and you'll find that there are lots of other bikes running CT's as well.Right from sport touring to cruisers to full touring bikes.The problem with the bike tires available is that the load rating is not nearly high enough for these heavy bikes that are almost at there limit without our fat asses on them.Most bike tires fail from too much heat build up.Car tires have been proven to run much cooler.Cooler =less chance of delam.There have been far,far more Mt failures reported on the dozen or so bike sites that I belong to than CT's.In fact I've yet to see anyone report that a good CT(if you ride it past it's prime then anything can fail)has had a catastrophic failure.In fact I invite you Sir to look around and see if you can find one that is without a doubt the tires fault.Just don't make assumptions about something you're just guessing about because it sounds wrong.

PS I've done my homework on Darksiding and you should do your own instead of me looking for statistics for you.There's more reading on it than you could do in a week if you're really interested.
If I'da known it would last this long,I'da taken better care of it.
Chris
Double Dark
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Sam I am » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:11 pm

I'm with you Chris,I did my own research and made my own decision. :D
I didn't start this thread to get anyones feathers ruffled ,I just wanted anyone that was interested to know my opinion
I have over 45 years experience with bikes and have owned over 50 since I was 7 yrs old (6 registered and insured presently)

I have never thought of going dark on any of my other bikes, but on the wing it just makes sense.
Too many toys not enough time... :)

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby maintainer » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:57 pm



1982 GL 1100 Interstate SOLD
1977 GL 1000 Standard (naked can be good, who knew?)

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby minimac » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:11 am

I too agree with you Chris. I did my research, made an informed decision, and won't buy another MC rear tire for my 'wing again. I never felt the need to register anywhere as a Darksider, but regardless of the trolls, we that do it, know it works. Every darksider will tell you, it may not be for everyone. If you don't want to do it, don't. BUT the trolls feel they have an obligation to raise all sorts of stupid arguments to validate their position, without ever trying it. Rim design, insurance, it's too flat, if you lean,you're going to run off the edge of the tire and crash,...always the same old arguments, and none of them hold water. Engineers will tell you it's impossible for a bee to fly-but they do. For centuries, the world's "best" minds said that the world was flat. We all know how that turned out. The Trolls will tell you that you shouldn't run a car tire on a motorcycle. Fine-keep that to yourself. I do it and enjoy the extra traction, the better ride, the extra mileage, the extra safety due to the greater capacity rating, and the lower tire costs. And so does almost every one else that darkside their rides. My advice to Paulcf- do your own research. If you want to try it, fine. if you don't that's fine too. But raising what you consider to be issues, has been heard over and over. Some times things just work. If you can't accept that, you never will. Your beating of a dead horse doesn't accomplish a thing.

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:31 am

OK, I've deleted a few posts from the end of this thread where it had devolved to name-calling and personal insults. If you have technical data to offer, personal experiences or opinions, please feel free to share them. Please no more posts questioning one another's intelligence, lineage, quality of education, validity of opinions, etc. on this topic - they will be deleted as well.

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Sam I am » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:31 pm

so, :o at this point I'm 400 miles into the dark side with only one word on my mind "HAPPY" :D :D :D
the only time I have noticed a difference is in my driveway, which has a few large rocks in it,
when backing out of the garage and the back tire hits one of these rocks I can feel a tipping sensation...
other than that I'm loving it at 33psi,,,,
now I have decided to go dbl dark :shock: , just ordered a battlax bt-45,
going to mount it with the arrow in the proper direction and add 2.5 oz.'s of beads
Too many toys not enough time... :)

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby minimac » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:00 pm

Glad you're liking it! I went to an Austone and 48 lbs seems to work best for me. For the front, I run a Bridgestone Excedra Max radial ( @40lbs) and the handling-especially in the wet- is a huge improvement. Keep us posted on how you like the front.

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Breakdancer » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:55 pm

Sorry I have not done any research on this matter but what I hear all pertains to the 1800. Why not the 1500's or others??? :?: Any 1500 riders using ct out there? Just curious. I'm not happy with my Avon Venoms. Rear is okay, but 4000 miles and the front is starting to chop?? I'm anal about tire pressure. Maybe another hidden issue here.?..
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby Breakdancer » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:06 pm

Well shoot me. I just went fishing here and found some great threads on ct's and 1500's. My bad. :oops: Sounds like this may not be a problem.
Blue Skies...Scott ;
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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby beachbuddy0253 » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:26 pm

Sam I am wrote:I'm with you Chris,I did my own research and made my own decision. :D
I didn't start this thread to get anyones feathers ruffled ,I just wanted anyone that was interested to know my opinion
I have over 45 years experience with bikes and have owned over 50 since I was 7 yrs old (6 registered and insured presently)
Picture 030.jpg

I have never thought of going dark on any of my other bikes, but on the wing it just makes sense.
Picture 396.jpg


I have had 3 ct,s on my 2010 and really like them. The first two were run flats and I just wasn't getting good mileage so no I have a Goodyear vector and it's been amazing. I have tallied up over 60,000 miles on them and have had really good luck, no cupping, very stable. Did the dragons tail 6 times in a row with it, been through key,va,wva Ohio and pa and kept up with all the other riders I,m sold

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Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby bob-c » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:33 pm

Re: Car Tire: So far as I know, there is no exception to the fact that no-one who has tried a car tire has gone back to a bike tire, and the only people against the idea are ones who have never tried it.
This is definitely one case where the engineers got it wrong. The stiff rear tire is just not the right thing on the heavy Wing. As for mixing and matching brands of tires, that's a tire manufacturers myth. It makes no difference what-so-ever.
I have 145k miles on my 1800, the last 80k on Dunlop SP 5000. I only wish I had put the Dunlop on it before I even took it out of the Dealership the first time.

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================
"You don't buy yourself a
HD to be SATISFIED,...
you buy it to keep your
HD friends PACIFIED."
================
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ANTAGONISTS need not post.
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==================

Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby FM-USA » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:43 pm

OH there's been a couple guys who went back to MT from CT. They verbally BLASTED the CT to shreds, basically pointing to all the positives we found about going DarkSide and turning it all to negatives. WHICH makes me believe they never really tried a CT in the first place.
One (so called) motorcycle expert rode a CT on a Valkyrie for only 500 feet and hated it to no end. Instant claim it was a disaster in the making. And go figure this, this idiot is a writer for a major bike mag. I think he's buttering up to someone's behind.

.
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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Motorcycle: .
'91 GL1500-I (Dbl-Darkside)
Acquired:__51K_Jun_??/2007
MADE_IT!_200K_Oct_17/2016
iRide 24/365 99% SmileMiles
================
"You don't buy yourself a
HD to be SATISFIED,...
you buy it to keep your
HD friends PACIFIED."
================
|
ANTAGONISTS need not post.
|
==================

Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby FM-USA » Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:53 pm

SOMEONE stated scientific facts earlier.
Here's a scientific fact about CT contact patch.

Take 2 Wings, one has MT, the other CT. Set the air pressures to tire specs.
NOW.....
Ride side by side through a water puddle and check your contact patch on dry pavement.
Do the same speed while riding in a fair leaning turn, check your patch. (LEAN'M GOOD!)
ABSOLUTE PROOF CT's on a bike has more contact patch than MT's.

My ABSLUTE SCIENCE BOOK is closed. :twisted:
"OIL CHANGE?" _FM 07-2009
Know its new taste and be loyal, you'll know when to change that oil.
Taste testing as the miles flow, souring as that acid grows.
And don't flirt with dirt or darkened oil, all the faster your engine will spoil.

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minimac
Posts: 333
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:25 am
Location: Oswego, NY
Motorcycle: 1993 GL1500 Aspencade
2006 Burgman Executive
2007 Yamaha Majesty
2006 Yamaha Morphous-(2018 cannonball scoot)

Re: GONE TO THE DARKSIDE

Postby minimac » Tue Aug 18, 2015 8:27 am

I have heard of two guys that tried an Austone and had issues.They both went back to a MC. One is and has been a regular on some Goldwing boards for years. I have no reason to doubt him, but I think he had a bike and not a tire issue.It was hard for me to accept running that tire at close to 50Lbs pressure but, for me, 48# works great. I also darksided my Majesty scooter-an off brand heavy duty car tire-and experienced the same great results. Soon it will be tire time on my Burgman 650 and guess what I'm going to do..... :D




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