2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel


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2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by WingAdmin » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:14 pm



This is an interesting video - showing what could be a serious shortcoming with the new Goldwing's front suspension:






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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by Red Ron » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:50 pm

Wow! Reinforces my decision to wait a couple of years. I never buy a new vehicle (or bike) the first year when radical changes are made.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by Big Blue UK » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:18 pm

Not surprised in the slightest. = to $42,000 in the UK :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by WingAdmin » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:31 am

It will be interesting to see if this becomes an issue once people start putting some more miles on their bikes - watch the condition of the bumper and see if it deteriorates.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mterraci » Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:16 pm

I agree with Red Ron, I always wait several years before purchasing something that is a completely new design so any bugs can get worked out.

I think it's reasonable to expect that a completely new design will reveal some flaws as new owners start to put some miles on the machines (I work in Quality; no brand new process or design ever goes off without a hitch). No amount of research and testing can replicate the conditions that thousands of new owners will encounter.

That being said, I saw the video and have to wonder why nobody on the design team was concerned that simply standing up the bike and placing a rider on it would take up all of the travel within the shock (before you so much as hit a bump in the road). I also saw a similar video talking about an excessive amount of play in the steering arms that looks like it may need to be addressed.

Down the road I believe these newly designed machines will turn out to be good bikes and will ultimately live up to the Goldwing name. We'll know in 5 or 6 years.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by kb9lww » Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:44 pm

There is, perhaps, a variable here we're not seeing. As I recall, the different ride settings - both the sport/tour/rain/econ and the rider/luggage/passenger - change the suspension. One would think that a suspension capable of changing on command would need some power and input from the computer. It does not appear the bike is switched on in this video. I wonder if that would change the ride height and make this not such an issue?
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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mterraci » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:52 pm

One of the videos I saw made it a point to say they were looking at the shock travel with the engine running. They went through all of the different ride settings and still the bike was hitting the shock bumper when they simply pushed it down.

I suspect Honda is going to need to address this issue and upgrade the shock and spring.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by Ralf_CT » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 am

kb9lww wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:44 pm
There is, perhaps, a variable here we're not seeing. As I recall, the different ride settings - both the sport/tour/rain/econ and the rider/luggage/passenger - change the suspension. One would think that a suspension capable of changing on command would need some power and input from the computer. It does not appear the bike is switched on in this video. I wonder if that would change the ride height and make this not such an issue?
You raise a valid point, probably one we've all overlooked. I cannot imagine Honda designing a front suspension system that rides on its rebound stop - I think we'll inevitably be red-faced when Honda explains how the suspension really works.
Ex GL1100 Interstate rider. Aspiring GL1500/1800 rider.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by thrasherg » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:49 am

Ralf_CT wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 am
kb9lww wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:44 pm
There is, perhaps, a variable here we're not seeing. As I recall, the different ride settings - both the sport/tour/rain/econ and the rider/luggage/passenger - change the suspension. One would think that a suspension capable of changing on command would need some power and input from the computer. It does not appear the bike is switched on in this video. I wonder if that would change the ride height and make this not such an issue?
You raise a valid point, probably one we've all overlooked. I cannot imagine Honda designing a front suspension system that rides on its rebound stop - I think we'll inevitably be red-faced when Honda explains how the suspension really works.
I hope you are right, but seeing as how under sprung my 2004 wing was, I could easily believe the new wing runs that close to the bumper stop!! Will just make for a rougher ride than Honda might have intended, but probably wont have a terrible effect on handling, but I would certainly want to address it if I owned one of those (as I did with my 2004!).

Gary

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by Ralf_CT » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:15 am

thrasherg wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:49 am
Ralf_CT wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 am
kb9lww wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:44 pm
There is, perhaps, a variable here we're not seeing. As I recall, the different ride settings - both the sport/tour/rain/econ and the rider/luggage/passenger - change the suspension. One would think that a suspension capable of changing on command would need some power and input from the computer. It does not appear the bike is switched on in this video. I wonder if that would change the ride height and make this not such an issue?
You raise a valid point, probably one we've all overlooked. I cannot imagine Honda designing a front suspension system that rides on its rebound stop - I think we'll inevitably be red-faced when Honda explains how the suspension really works.
I hope you are right, but seeing as how under sprung my 2004 wing was, I could easily believe the new wing runs that close to the bumper stop!! Will just make for a rougher ride than Honda might have intended, but probably wont have a terrible effect on handling, but I would certainly want to address it if I owned one of those (as I did with my 2004!).

Gary
Gary, those with a 2018 'Wing' should let it stand overnight, take it off the stand(s), let it rest on its wheels, take a pic of the front shock and then start the bike to check if it 'rises up'.
Ex GL1100 Interstate rider. Aspiring GL1500/1800 rider.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by ZAN » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:27 pm

No doubt it needs a stiffer spring but Honda may only add a nylon washer (or some type) to the top of the rubber stop, to keep the dust shield from cutting into it.
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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by AZgl1800 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:35 pm

I think that newer, longer rebound cushion was designed that way on purpose, and folks are just getting their drawers all in a wad because the fork is down closer to the bushing than we are used to.

Think about it for a minute, that new suspension design has a LOT less travel than before. A normal shock is NOT going to be able to compensate for the short travel distance.. but, a much longer cushion block can... notice the way it is designed. the further down it is compressed, the thicker it gets....

IMO, there is nothing wrong with the new suspension....
it is us, who don't understand how it is working.

I remember seeing a video of the two engineers talking about that new suspension, and how many versions of it they had to throw in the trash before they finally came up with the one that is on the bike now.

This time, it is Rocket Science, there is a LOT of science and engineering in that new suspension system.
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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by doxbike » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:14 pm

I went to the local dealer yesterday and crawled under the "bagger" and the Tour. The shock on the bagger was as shown on the video, but on the 2 Tours they had on hand, there was a lot more shock rod showing and the bumper was a lot thinner. I had them take the bike off the center stand and the shock rod was till exposed. Wonder if there are already changes being made?

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by Bluesbrad » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:15 pm

I'm on the verge of buying a new 2018 Goldwing DCT and it is at the dealership.

I came across this video and of course it concerned me. Those that shot it appeared to do a reasonable effort to make their point; so I contacted my local Honda motorcycle dealer and shared the video with them. They had the following to say about it.

From my local Honda Motorcycle Dealership:

"Just got a call from our Service Rep and Honda is well aware of this guy making claims that really aren't valid. He's trying to drum up business for new Wings.

Our rep said he put over 200 miles on the Wing and the bike is fantastic. He said it mesmerizing watching the suspension go up and down and the bars don't move. He's an old road racer and he said he wants to take the DCT model and put it Sport mode and take it to the track...That's how good it is.

I had Cole sit on our Wing and reef up and down on the shock and it barely moves. The linkage, wishbone, and other components are moving but the shock is barely moving. I prefer to trust a team of Honda Engineers who developed, designed (R&D) and built this bike versus a small shock shop. Not saying there could be some traction to this (no pun) but we sent the video to Honda so we will see where this goes."

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by sidvicious » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:56 am

I wondered the same thing. The guy is in business to sell shocks. I kinda trust Honda’s engineers a little more.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by Red Ron » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:31 pm

Me and another guy looked at them today at Bike Week in Daytona. We got down on our knees and looked up into the front and we couldn't see a bumper like the one in the video. We could barely see one at the bottom of the spring but it appeared a lot smaller than what is on the video. I wonder if they have already made changes as they continue to roll them off the line? It also looked like there should be a lot more travel in the shock than the video. We also got on it and held the front brake and bounced as hard as we could and there appeared to be a lot of travel and it felt a lot smother than my '14. I may go back in a couple of days and demo a dct.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by doxbike » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:10 am

So a GW DCT followed me home yesterday, and I can tell you there is a lot going on with the double wishbone front end. I hit some pretty harsh bumps and dips on the road and several speed bumps on the way home. Seems to have plenty of travel so far. Of course, with new tires and facing unknown handling characteristics, I didn't push it hard in the corners. Will keep checking its limits.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mberk01 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:54 pm

I'm not buying the notion that Honda made a mistake in designing the front end of the new Goldwing. There's nothing here that needs to be "fixed" with aftermarket parts. Study the geometry. The front axle travels in a vertical line while the front shock is mounted at an angle. In addition, the lower shock mount is behind where the front fork holder attaches to the lower control arm. This would indicate that the actual shock travel is (by design) substantially less than the axle travel. As a result of this geometry, the more the front axle is forced upward the greater the shock angle (relative to vertical) and the less the shock is compressed for a given amount of axle movement.



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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by WingAdmin » Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:21 pm

mberk01 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:54 pm
I'm not buying the notion that Honda made a mistake in designing the front end of the new Goldwing. There's nothing here that needs to be "fixed" with aftermarket parts. Study the geometry. The front axle travels in a vertical line while the front shock is mounted at an angle. In addition, the lower shock mount is behind where the front fork holder attaches to the lower control arm. This would indicate that the actual shock travel is (by design) substantially less than the axle travel. As a result of this geometry, the more the front axle is forced upward the greater the shock angle (relative to vertical) and the less the shock is compressed for a given amount of axle movement.

Suspension.gif
Actually I see it the other way around: the farther the upward movement of the front wheel, the greater the ratio and the more the shock is compressed. It's actually a clever design: At full extension, the mechanical advantage of the control arm lever is maximal due to the angle of the shock in comparison to the angle of the control arm, which gives a supple, soft ride with minimal shock travel. Therefore the shock is compressed only a small amount for a given amount of suspension travel. As the wheel moves upward, the shock becomes more and more parallel to the control arms, the mechanical advantage decreases, and the shock is compressed more and more, providing more and more resistance against the upward motion.

Honda engineers are anything but stupid. It's a clever use of leverage, space and differential arcs between the shock and the control arms.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mberk01 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:00 pm

After pondering this I believe that my last sentence is incorrect and you are mostly correct - except that as the wheel moves upward the shock becomes more perpendicular (not parallel) to the lower control arm, which is traveling in an upward arc. As you state, this provides more resistance against the upward motion. Yes, Honda engineers are very clever.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by WingAdmin » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:18 pm

mberk01 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:00 pm
After pondering this I believe that my last sentence is incorrect and you are mostly correct - except that as the wheel moves upward the shock becomes more perpendicular (not parallel) to the lower control arm, which is traveling in an upward arc. As you state, this provides more resistance against the upward motion. Yes, Honda engineers are very clever.
You're right, I used the wrong word - I wrote parallel when I meant perpendicular. The arc described by the shock and its pivot is much larger in diameter than the one described by the lower control arm and its pivot. The shock does not rotate in its plane as fast as the control arm, so as the control arm moves upward, the shock becomes more perpendicular to it, which then decreases the mechanical advantage of the lower control arm.

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mberk01 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:13 pm

One thing that is not clear to me is whether there is any provision for electronically adjusting pre-load or damping on the front shock when the various weight/load settings are selected. I don't recall reading anything on this. Do you know?

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mberk01 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:03 pm

One thing that is not clear to me is whether there is any provision for electronically adjusting pre-load or damping on the front shock when the various weight/load settings are selected. I don't recall reading anything on this. Do you know?

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by AZgl1800 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:47 pm

mberk01 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:03 pm
One thing that is not clear to me is whether there is any provision for electronically adjusting pre-load or damping on the front shock when the various weight/load settings are selected. I don't recall reading anything on this. Do you know?

No, there is not.

I have seen pictures up close of the shock, and it is just a shock and spring, with a special cushion to absorb the last small amount of travel as it compresses....
~John

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Re: 2018 GL1800 minimal shock travel

Post by mberk01 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:42 pm

I found the following description of the 2018 Goldwing suspension at: https://hondanews.eu/eu/lv/motorcycles/ ... -gold-wing

This is the official Honda website for European Media News

Total weight saving of 48kg compared to the previous model
    Brand new aluminium beam frame moves the engine and rider forward
      Double wishbone front suspension and redesigned Pro-Arm
        Front and rear damping level adjusts to suit riding mode selected
          Rear spring preload electrically adjustable
            Dual-Combined Braking System

            Damping level is also adjusted electrically relative to the riding mode selected by the rider. Stepper motors housed within the front and rear shock absorbers move needles to control oil flow, tailoring damping force for the riding situation.


            So I'm wondering, did the European models get adjustable front shocks, and the United States models did not?



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