How to install oil orifice?


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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Rocketman
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How to install oil orifice?

Postby Rocketman » Fri May 11, 2012 6:12 pm



Getting ready to install rebuilt heads on my GL1000 and am puzzled about the oil orifice installation. The O-ring on the smaller end of the orifice fits into the hole in the engine case just fine, but the O-ring for the wider end does not fit into the hole in the head (see pics). I don't think they intended for the O-ring to sit above the head surface as it would interfere with the head sitting flush on the engine case when I torque it down. I tried pressing the O-ring down around the orifice into the hole but it didn't seem that was correct. I may have been able to force it in but I didn't want to risk damaging the O-ring. I went to the Honda dealer and confirmed these are the correct O-rings. The picture diagrams just show an exploded view which doesn't show the final location of the O-ring.

Anyone know how this is supposed to be? Would appreciate any help. Assembly on hold until I figure this out.

Mike
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thrasherg
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby thrasherg » Fri May 11, 2012 6:19 pm

I hope someone with some knowledge can reply, but you must have a head gasket that goes between the cylinder and the head, so the o-ring is not being completely squashed, it just has to compress to the same thickness as the head gasket.. If you place the head gasket on the cylinders, is the opening around the orifice large enough to accept the o-ring? If yes it probably means the o-ring does go there.. Just an idea..

Gary

Rocketman
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Rocketman » Fri May 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Hadn't thought of that. I'll check it out and post.
Mike

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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Rocketman » Sat May 12, 2012 12:10 am

Gary,

Looks like you could be right - see pics below.

Pics 1 and 2 show the head gasket on a white paper to clearly show the gasket opening. Pics 3 and 4 show the head gasket laid in position on the head. The O-ring does fit nicely into the opening in the gasket so it looks like that's how it is designed.

There is one thing I'm curious to know. If the large O-ring by itself provides the seal between the head and the case, what is the purpose of the small O-ring on the oil orifice? It seemed to me the orifice bridges the gap between the head and case in which case O-rings at both ends make sense, but an O-ring on one end ....?

If anyone knows for sure this is how the O-ring is installed please let me know.

Thanks,
Mike
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thrasherg
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby thrasherg » Sat May 12, 2012 10:36 am

It sure does look like the o-ring is meant to go there, but as you say it would be nice to have someone that has worked on their engine chip in and confirm! All the best.

Gary

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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Old Fogey » Sat May 12, 2012 6:51 pm

You have the oiler and the O rings correct. Remember that the oil is being fed at anything up to 75psi. The large O ring is to prevent oil being forced into the head gasket; the small O ring to prevent oil being forced back down the outside of the oiler.
Yes, to some extent it could be viewed as a 'belts and braces' job.
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Rocketman
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Rocketman » Sat May 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Old Fogey,
That's kind of the conclusion I came to. Its nice to find out for sure before mounting the heads.
Thanks, Mike

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Fred Camper
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Fred Camper » Sat May 12, 2012 7:23 pm

You helped us all learn Rocketman.

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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Rocketman » Mon May 14, 2012 3:25 pm

To Old Fogey and anyone else,

Not to beat this to death, but I just remembered something that makes me wonder if they were installed correctly to begin with.

When I took the heads off and removed the oil orifices there were metal pieces inside the right orifice and inside the case oil passage where the orifice came from. I think the metal had been in there for some time (decades?) because I strained the oil, examined the oil strainer, and dissected the oil filter and there was no metal any where else.

The pieces were large enough that they couldn't pass through the small holes in the small end of the orifice and were trapped inside the orifice. I had to use the smooth end of tiny drill bit in the small hole to push the metal pieces out. The only way I can see that the metal could have got inside the orifice is if the large end was facing toward the engine case. That's opposite of how the illustrations in the parts manual show. Both the illustrations for the left and right head show the large end toward the head, and the illustrations of the large and small O-rings support that as well.

Judging how worn the valve guides were I doubt the heads have been off since Honda put it together. It's hard to imagine Honda put them in backwards, so is the parts illustration wrong? I already have mounted both heads so I hope I have it right. I'm ready to continue putting the cams in, etc., but this has me wondering. :(

Any thoughts on this? If anyone has a Clymers or Haynes manual I would be interested to know what that says.
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Old Fogey
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Old Fogey » Mon May 14, 2012 4:15 pm

The illustrations are correct; the way you have them fitted is correct. If you try to fit them the other way round, the heads will not sit down on the cases.
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triketrash
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby triketrash » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:42 am

Too bad I didn't see this 24 hours ago- I'm putting the head back on my bike and only put the inner o-ring on the oiler. Outer one didn't make sense to me so I didn't use it. Is this gonna foul things up? I'd hate to have to pull everything apart again, but I will if I have to. I guess my nice new head gasket is toast if I DO have to take apart huh?

Old Fogey
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby Old Fogey » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:33 am

Well, we have successfully re-used gaskets that have not been put through a heat cycle, but you can't rely on that always being the case; we also have had failures doing that. It's your call really, but you do need to pull the heads and fit that O ring.

What would I do? I'd go for it. Make sure that you moly grease the threads and underside of the head of the head bolts and torque it down in the correct sequence to the correct figure.
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vico
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Re: How to install oil orifice?

Postby vico » Wed Jul 27, 2016 7:45 am

Hellos friends, I'm looking for a couple of "oil orifice" (12238-371-000) and I couldn't find them anywhere. Does anybody knows where can I buy them? or the part measurements to make a reproduction? Thank you.-




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