power loss


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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Bartmead
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Motorcycle: 77 GL1000 Goldwing
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power loss

Postby Bartmead » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:15 am



77 gl1000
I occasionally have a situation where I'll be riding along and out of the blue the engine will act like its lost a cylinder or something. It runs like this for a while then snaps out of it and returns to normal. It almost feels like its starving for fuel. It did this once before I replaced the points with dynas. And since the dyna replacement its ran great except yesterday it happened :?: once. Does this sound like an electrical/grounding situation?
I've put about 5000 miles on it since I got it last summer and it currently has 55000. Stock everything except dyna "points" which I installed last week. When I finally got them set perfect it started and ran the best its ever ran. Last year it did this once on my ride home and snapped out of it. At that time I checked my battery connections and misc wiring that I had easy access to. The neg terminal on the battery was a little loose so I tightened it up and didn't have the problem again until yesterday.I replaced the plugs(with the dyna "points"), and set the valves, fresh oil, and a splash of mmo in the crankcase and fuel tank. I have Randakks fancy fuel filter that I installed last fall. I rode about 35 miles at highway speed to the barber shop and it was perfect. On my ride home, after about 30 miles of trouble free riding it did this power loss/bogg thing.
This morning it started great and took off like a bat out of hell but "messed up" after about 5 miles.
I've been on vacation and just got back. Before I left I replaced the factory coils with dyna coils and built some new wires. I also put a little seafoam in the gas. It started great this morning and I went for a ride. It ran great for about 3 miles at highway speed+ and, again did the bog/drop cylinder thing. This time it sort of switched back and forth between normal and boggy before it stayed "bad". I came home and sat down at the computer. What should I check next. I am assuming the coils and wires are ok. Is it wrong to make that assumption? With the new electronic "points" and coils the condenser and that ceramic thingy have been eliminated. Plugs wires, "points", and coils are all that's left. What is left to check?



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virgilmobile
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Re: power loss

Postby virgilmobile » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:51 am

If you know it's gonna happen,just loosen the gas cap and let the tank vent.
It may be not drawing air through the cap well.

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Bartmead
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Re: power loss

Postby Bartmead » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:53 pm

Ok. So it has been suggested that I may have a plugged or restrictive fuel cap vent. I went out and started the bike(started beautifully) and took off the fuel cap since I was at about a quarter of a tank and went for a ride. Lugged or bogged the whole way. I have a significant hill to climb and almost had to downshift to maintain my speed (65+). I went home and re-checked my timing for the 4th time since I got it perfect and it hadn't changed. I gave the advance cam a twist and it moved freely and snapped back fine. I have considered that there could be a fuel issue with the tank. A couple of weeks ago when this reared its ugly head I pulled the fuel filter off to check it out. I had the petcock in the off position and took apart the filter. Clean as a whistle. Out of curiosity I opened the petcock and fuel did not pour out. I blew a little puff of air into the tank and the gas came shooting out. Do you think that there is debris restricting fuel flow in the tank? And could this be an intermittent thing? I suppose I could strap a small gas tank to the false tank and try to eliminate that as a cause. I don't know what "kream" is but the PO said the tank was good and that he had had it "kreamed". Does that stuff come apart in sheets?

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Placerville
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Re: power loss

Postby Placerville » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:03 am

I know that problems like this can get you upset but, you've got to slow down a bit and start being more methodical. Jumping all over replacing things at random is a one-way ticket to insanity. We've all been there so, we understand. ;)

First, you've got to take things in order based on your problem which, from your current description, sounds (to me) like fuel starvation. So, address this problem first. If that doesn't solve the problem, then move on to electrical. Right now, 'fuel' seems to be your best bet so start at the top and work down.

1. You've made sure that your fuel cap is not restricting your fuel flow by removing it. Fine.
2. Make sure your petcock is working properly by rebuilding or replacing it. Your comments that fuel "did not run out" are a flashing red light to me. This is a 'nickle and dime' part and should be done every few years to ensure the petcock's working properly. If you find that your petcock is clogged, it could be that the small seal inside has deteriorated or, much worse, your tank coating is coming apart. (More below.)
3. Ensure that both your main and reserve tubes from your tank are running clear. Run a piece of flexible wire in and out of them and see if anything comes out. BTW, is your tank clean and rust free?
4. Replace your fuel lines. (You said your filter is new so you can skip that).
5. Look at the weep hole under your fuel pump. Is it clean or does it look like there's oil residue around it? If it's the latter, your pump is leaking fuel (it only looks like oil when it gets dirty) and you need to replace it.

Regarding your comments about "Kream." Kreem is an interior tank coating product and, if not done right, will come off and result in a myriad of problems. Go here to read more about tank coatings. I suggest that you drain your tank and look inside. If you see any issue with the coating flaking off, debris on the bottom of the tank etc., you need to pull the tank and take it to a radiator shop for cleaning. You can also buy a cleaned tank on eBay.
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Bartmead
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Re: power loss

Postby Bartmead » Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:44 am

You're right that I'm jumping around a bit. It's my only running bike and I love to ride. I've fallen in love with it and only want the best for it. I have peered down into the tank and it looks pretty clean. I have the petcock kit that came with Randakks carb kit(haven't done the carbs yet) and will fix that today. Thanks for the calming advice. I just needed to take a few deep breaths. :)

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Placerville
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Re: power loss

Postby Placerville » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:35 am

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's only your petcock. Drain your tank from the filler neck with a siphon making sure you've got the tube as far back into the lower portion of the tank as possible. Pull you petcock and set it aside. Then, focus on the 'main' and 'reserve' tubes making sure they're clean (as they might be the source of your fuel issue). If they are, that's good news. If not, you need to clean them, figure out why they were clogged and address that issue. Then, move on to the petcock. In the previous link I showed (above), Randakk has a good tutorial on rebuilding the older (with screws) and newer (without screws) style of petcock. Good luck.
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Fred Camper
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Re: power loss

Postby Fred Camper » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:03 pm

My money is on an electrical issue, but that looses steam as you seem to only loose one cylinder and electrical issues often take two at a time out. So continue to look into fuel first.

rstoops1
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Re: power loss

Postby rstoops1 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:21 am

I had an issue like you describe with a 1976 GL1000. I had installed a DynaS electronic ignition system and for a couple of years it ran perfectly, but finally developed a condition where it would drop one, or more cylinders. The puzzling thing was that it was not always the same cylinders. I sent the module back to the factory and they claimed it worked perfectly when they tested it. I re-installed it and got the same problem. I had gone through coils, new wires and checked connections, but in desperation I removed the Dyna system and re-installed the points and it ran perfectly. I later sold the bike and it's still running great with the old points system. This may not be the problem you have, but might be worth checking out.

****

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Bartmead
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Re: power loss

Postby Bartmead » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:39 pm

I replaced the air filter with honda filter. I have about 2 miles of f&%$#ing gravel before I get to the asphalt so my air filter was pretty dirty. I re-checked my timing(with a test light) and it was right on. I re-checked my tappets and found them out of adjustment. It seems that when I adjusted them before, I screwed up pretty badly. Please let me explain. I have 2 pages of adjustment instructions and the first page has the procedure for the #1 and #3 cylinders. I didn't even use page 2. So, I must have adjusted 2 from the T2 mark or something dumb like that. :IDTS: I adjusted them properly. I checked my synchronization and they were all about the same vacuum. It runs much better now. I haven't replaced the 10 ohm plug wire yet. The auto parts store in my town only had copper and the honda cycle shop didn't sell bulk carbon type wire. I've put about 120 miles on this weekend and that makes me happy. I probably still have some runability issues but it is running dramatically better. I can tolerate "not perfect" if it means i can ride.
Thanks so much for all the advice.

ps I submitted the same post at NGW so it may look familiar.

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Fred Camper
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Re: power loss

Postby Fred Camper » Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:35 pm

We must live in the same house, two miles of gravel before asphalt for me too. Glad to hear she is running better. For me, everything was electrical, needed more voltage to the Dyna S before all became perfect (as perfect gets when you are 37 year old mechanical equipment).

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Bartmead
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Re: power loss

Postby Bartmead » Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:40 am

What did you do to get more voltage to the dyna system?

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Fred Camper
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Re: power loss

Postby Fred Camper » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:19 am

I found that when you tap into the key switch that voltage was already a volt down from the battery. So I installed a relay with a direct 12 gauge battery wire to feed the Dyna and basically the remaining loads coming off the key ignition feed. So the ignition key feed now engages the relay and the Dyna gets very close to full battery voltage. I can make a wiring drawing if it would help, but is is just like the headlight relay wiring shown months back in this forum.

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virgilmobile
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Re: power loss

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:23 am

Ah.Same method to increase the avaiable voltage to headlights,air horns,regulator modules,ignition ECM's and the such.
Good work around.

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Bartmead
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Re: power loss

Postby Bartmead » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:47 am

I haven't had my power loss problem for about 130 miles at various ambient temps. I wired up a relay for the dynas but haven't installed it yet. I will wait until It messes up again I think. Its running like a Singer sewing machine right now. Hate to monkey with it. The only thing I have done lately is to pull all the plugs and inspect them/rechecked gaps. I rechecked resistance on the wires. Still 3 at 7.5k ohms with 1 at about 10.5k. Keeping my grubby fingers crossed. One thing I noticed an a couple of rides was that I don't hear the fan running when I stop and hit the kill switch. Normally after most rides I hear it running before I turn off the key. Either its running nice and cool or the fan isn't coming on. I there a possibility that my runability problem is fan or fan switch related? Like maybe the fan is going bad and has excessive draw? Or maybe a short to ground somewhere in the fan circuit?

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Placerville
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Re: power loss

Postby Placerville » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:27 pm

When you say, ...."Either it's running nice and cool.....", what does your temp gauge say? If the needle is mid-way into the white bar of the gauge, your fan should be running. (Mine comes on when the needle just enters the white bar.) Make sure your fan is working. First, with the bike parked, run it up to temp. If the fan doesn't kick when the needle is mid-way into the white bar, do this: After the engine cools down, turn the ignition to the 'ON' position. Pull the two wires from your thermostat switch and connect them together. If your fan comes on, your thermostat switch is bad. Replace it. If it doesn't come on, you have a wiring problem 'towards' the fan or, the fan motor is bad.

Regarding the resistance of your wires. When you say "wires" are you referring to your plug caps or, are you measuring both the wires and the plugs? Your bike came from the factory with 'resistor' plugs and stainless steel core wires. If you still have resistor plugs (either genuine Honda or aftermarket NGK's) the only thing to test is the caps. The wires (unless they are worn and arching) should not wear out and should not be included in the test of the caps. Brand new resistor caps should test no higher than 5K ohms. It's said that up to 10K of resistance on resistor caps is acceptable but, I'd disagree. I recently changed my 37-year-old factory original caps (that were all measuring about 9K) with new ones from Honda. I noticed an immediate and positive difference in starting and general performance. I would suggest that although the these caps are still serviceable at 10K, their performance degradation starts well before that.
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Easyridersteve
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Location: Fenton, Michigan
Motorcycle: 1978 GL1000 Goldwing

Re: power loss

Postby Easyridersteve » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:47 pm

Hello, I am new to this site, but can see it can be invaluable for solving problems. I had the same problem with my GL-1000 this summer. It would be running great and then would act like the fuel line was being choked off. It would keep running, but would have very low power. This would happen after about 5 miles of running. I also checked for all the possible causes including the fuel system and the ignition system. I also have a Dyna Ignition that I installed a couple of years ago. I check the ignition timing for both coils and it was spot on. I checked the resistance of the coils and of the ignition wires and the RF resistors at the spark plug end. I also did all the fuel system checks you mentioned including replacing the fuel filter the fuel lines and eventually the fuel pump. I also syphoned the tank and filled it with new fuel. None of this corrected the problem. Oh, I also opened the fuel cap which had no effect.

What finally worked for me was sucking some fine rust deposits from the bottom of the tank (through the fuel sender opening) and then used compressed air to blow back through the petcock. This resulted in a high rate of air bubbling up from the pickup tube at the tank bottom.

I did this by disconnecting the fuel line and attaching a short piece of fuel line to the petcock. I would then attach my compressor nozzle and blow back into the tank with the petcock in both of the positions, reserve (R) and normal (On).

This corrected my problem. I am not exactly sure why unless I had an accumulation of sediment under the dome shaped screens in the bottom of the tank. Anyway, I started the bike, let it warm up, then revved it up and down the Rpm Range (while stationary) and it ran very smooth. Before, it would hesitate and act like it was misfiring.
I then took my GL-1000 for a 30 mile ride without any problems.

We will see when the first warm weather appears in Michigan.

Hope this helps, Steve S.

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popotwindy
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Re: power loss

Postby popotwindy » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:23 pm

Great thread. Having the exact same "fuel starved" issues with my '77. Looks like I've been rescued by this site yet again.

Easyridersteve
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Location: Fenton, Michigan
Motorcycle: 1978 GL1000 Goldwing

Re: power loss

Postby Easyridersteve » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:20 pm

Hello again, well I'm embarrassed to say that my '78 Goldwing's rough running problem last fall was not due to fuel system issues. It turns out that my two year old Dyna-S ignition module had failed and two cylinders were not firing ! I was led to believe that these modules are very reliable, so I immediately assumed the problem was due to the fuel system. Although there was some rust contamination in the fuel tank and in the filter, this was not the primary problem. I even replaced the fuel pump just to be safe. I replaced the Dyna-S module this Spring and my old Wing now runs perfectly again !
Hope this helps someone. Steve




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