78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th


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wdwillis
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78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:41 am



i just noticed this issue the other day, and it is quite unpleasant.
in 4th, and 5th noticeably, when i attempt to accelerate, it will slip.
when i turn the throttle, the engine rev's up, but it doesn't immediately engage. it takes a few seconds, and then it engages, and i get acceleration.
i don't notice it happening in 1rst, or second... though i might have in 3rd as well...
if i ease into it, it doesn't seem to be as noticeable.

i just changed the oil maybe 1500 miles ago, along with the filter, so i don't think it should be oil.
I also sometimes have trouble getting it to go into 5th, this mostly cleared up after the oil change earlier in the season.

i'm afraid something is severely hosed up in the tranny, and was hoping someone had some suggestions to look into other than tearing into the tranny.

when it happens, it is almost like i am holding in the clutch, and then it slips in.
this happens both when initially entering the gear, as well as if i slow down, and then attempt to speed up again in the same gear without having shifted.


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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:17 pm

Your clutch is slipping. And it could very well be due to the type of oil you put in the bike. Did you use motorcycle oil? Or automotive oil? A large percentage of automotive oils have friction modifiers, and when you put an oil with friction modifiers in a motorcycle with a wet clutch, the end result is exactly what you are experiencing.

The other option is that your clutch is just worn out. But it seems quite the coincidence that it started happening right after you changed your oil.

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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby Placerville » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:02 pm

Agree. The first step to any clutch problem is to change your oil and then look at the clutch adjustment as WA says. Any good quality M/C oil is fine but, Rotella T 15W-40 diesel oil is excellent for early GL's and is less expensive than the other 'formal' M/C oil brands. As he mentiond above, never use regular automotive oil. Change your oil and then check your cable adjustment. Ride it for a few hundred miles and note any change in its performance. If you feel it's improved, don't hesitate to change the oil again to rid the engine of any automotive oil (if that's actually the case). If your clutch is still slipping in high gear (and if the cable is properly adjusted) do this: Get on your bike and start it. Nose it up to an immovable object e.g., the wall of your garage. Put your bike in second gear, give it a touch of throttle and then ease the clutch out. If the engine dies (stales) immediately from the clutch release, it's not your clutch. However, if the engine runs after releasing the clutch, your clutch is toast.

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wdwillis
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:37 pm

the oil we used was 10w40 for motorcycles by valvoline...
we will try out that immobile object test on the clutch
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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wdwillis
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:54 pm

just discussed this with my son, and he pointed out that i have no slipping in first, second or third really....
Gonna try this in just a bit still....
if the engine does die, as we expect it will.... what would the next thing be to do?
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:49 pm

wdwillis wrote:just discussed this with my son, and he pointed out that i have no slipping in first, second or third really....
Gonna try this in just a bit still....
if the engine does die, as we expect it will.... what would the next thing be to do?


That's because there's enough mechanical advantage in lower gears that the engine never develops enough torque to force the clutch to slip. In higher gears, the mechanical advantage of the gear reduction is gone, so the engine gets to develop much more torque to get the bike moving - and torque is what the clutch is resisting (and in your case, failing).

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wdwillis
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:41 pm

clutch test done. it died, so thats "good"
identified an issue with the sparks though, new plugs needed, and possibly new wires, looking to source that now.
as it were, i was running on less than 4 cylinders it looks like which would explain some other issues, like rough idle, not wanting to stay idle, shutting off at lights, and general rough performance.

also, an issue where at highway speeds it suddenly gets really rough, and doesn't want to go over 3-4k for a few miles, then recovers
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby Placerville » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:50 pm

If you're going to replace your wires and plugs, do the job 'all the way' and replace your caps as well. Your '78 probably has it's original 'resistor' style OEM caps. When new, these caps measure 5K ohms. As they age, the resistor in the cap (designed to suppress plug noise) breaks down and can substantially decrease your spark. Honda says that any measurement up to 10 ohms is acceptable however, when I replaced my caps (that measured around 9.5 ohms each) I experienced a very noticeable improvement in overall performance and, especially, cold starting. The difference there was significant.

For wires, I suggest this 7mm wire kit from Dyna. If you're going to stay with genuine Honda resistor caps, they are still available from Honda. Pricey, but if you prefer to keep your ride all original, at least they're still available. If you don't need to do that, you can use 'non-resistor' NGK caps which will never degrade, are very affordable and available at many outlets. A tip: Don't toss your wires existing dust boots as you may find them to be a better fit than the one's from Dyna. Also, if you need additional wire clips etc. here's a good outlet.
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wdwillis
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:21 pm

Placerville, Awesome.

I was a little concerned about sourcing some of the parts, and was going to do just a little more research before committing to any purchases.
I'm not an all original nut, and this bike would be my bane if i were. I will go with the dyna wires, and NGK caps...
The original dust covers are pretty bad, someone pretty much siliconed the left side to the head do to it being cracked and torn... the sparks themselves looked like they were used for cooking smores.

I appreciate the source links for the parts especially.
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby Placerville » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:36 pm

Welcome, and I forgot to mention the plugs.

Your bike takes D8EA's and are very inexpensive at Honda at a $1.74 each as long as you're picking up some other parts to justify the $12 shipping. Otherwise, I'd get them at a local AutoZone. If your bike has points and stock coils, these will be fine. If your running electronic ignition and coils (e.g., Dyna), you can still use these but, you can open the gap a bit more (2 to 6 thousandths) as your spark is hotter and the larger gap will give you bigger spark thus better ignition. You can increase the gap until you start experiencing a 'ping' then, back it down. Some owners (who have electronic ignition and coils) like Iridium plugs and say they get better performance. In my case, after rebuilding my carbs., installing new wires, caps and doing a carb sync., I then experimented with D8EA's vs. Iridium's. I rode the bike with the D8EA's in it for a few hundred miles (it ran like a rocket) and then switched to a set of Iridium's and went for another ride. I couldn't detect a difference. I'm sure that if the bike was placed on a dynamometer, a difference could be detected but, for me, it just wasn't there.

By the way, I just re-read some of your posts above and wanted to comment on your carbs. To use a famous GL guru's expression regarding these bikes, "Everything effects everything." So, if your carbs need attention, nothing else you do to your bike will ever give you 100% satisfaction as the carbs performance will always been in the way. So, after completing the work mentioned above, I suggest that you at least do a carb sync. This will help your bike start better, idle better and come 'off idle' quicker meaning, accelerate from a stop. Try this: If your bike 'clatters' at idle (1K rpm) and if, from a stop, you're not able to slowly release the clutch lever, fully engage the clutch, and get the bike rolling without twisting the throttle, your carbs need to be sync'd.
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:38 pm

son works at autozone, and is picking up the plugs today... was hoping we could source the wires, and caps through there as well (discount), but i am not hopeful that we will.

i've never had to crimp spark plug wires before.... always been able to just purchase a set for the car, and they just pull the old ones, and plug in the new ones...

here is a shot of the worst one... nt the best camera, but you should be able to see how messed up it is
this is the worst looking one
this is the worst looking one
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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wdwillis
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:32 pm

OK, so, i am getting
the wire kit Dyna Ignition Wires 7mm copper core (black)
The NGK Caps Honda GL1100 NGK Plug Caps gl1000 spark plug caps ngk gl1100 ignition coil parts

as i understand it, i put in my new plaugs, the NGK caps go over those, then the Dyna wire connects to the ngk cap... then i cut it to length, and connect the cut end to the coils?thats where i am a little fuzzy, as i don't have the bike in front of me to look at it more.
I understand also that i am basically getting 2 wires, with the ends that plug into the caps on both sides, and they are basically going to be cut in half to give me 4 cables, where one side has an end that plugs into the ngk caps, and the other being raw cable, that gets connected to the coil...


i apologize for my ignorance on this subject, as i have only ever done spark's and wires on a car before, and those were just pretty much plug and drive.

also, would 7mm copper core automotive wires (sourced from autozone) work as well? i would still get the NGK caps, but wouldn't need to order the wires that way...
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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wdwillis
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1980 GL-1100 Interstate
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:58 am

just noticed the bit about the carbs.... if i can get away without doing anything to the clutch, after sparks and wires, the next 2 projects are some exhaust repair, and then we are going through the carbs...
i haven't worked on a carb in 15 years, but i am sure it will be worth it...
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby Placerville » Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:01 pm

Yes, you can use any good quality 7mm copper core wire and, yes, most of what you said is correct. What you haven't said is whether your coils are OEM or aftermarket. If they're original, you've got a problem. Original coils and wires came as a single piece unit, not separately and they are no longer available. So, which do you have?

There are kits available to splice ignition wires together (so you could use your OEM coils) but, I've never used them. If you have OEM coils, and do not want to replace them, you might want to research this option. If you have aftermarket coils e.g. Dyna, the wires are removable/replaceable as there are separate openings for each plug wire.

To install new wires, slide your plug cap dust boots on, then screw your new NGK caps onto that end of the wire. Next, fit the plug caps through the larger rubber seal suppressor (that sits against the head). They should be assembled like the photo below when done. For the coil end, you must strip back about 1/2" of rubber to expose the copper wire. That wire threads through a clip which is then crimped to the outside of the rubber wire. The clip then 'press fits' into the coil opening.

For your carbs, I strongly suggest that you purchase Randakks carb rebuild video before attempting this job and to use his rebuild kit. To rebuild these carbs, you must be methodical, patient, organized and detail oriented. If not, I suggest you send them to either Pistol Pete or Mike Nixon and have them professionally rebuilt.

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wdwillis
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:49 am

the bike passed the clutch test....
it is running factory coils, but on the upside the cables look pretty good... they would benefit from replacing i am sure, but at least they aren't so bad i feel the need to do it today...

probably going to get a new dyna set and do up new cables over the winter, rather than trying to messwith them right now...
it does start up, and idle much better now.

as for the slipping, i didn't get to take it out tonight, so i will be checking that out tomorrow.
Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!

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wdwillis
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1980 GL-1100 Interstate
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Re: 78 GL1000 Slipping in 4th and 5th

Postby wdwillis » Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:38 pm

so, new dyna caps are on the way... but i did take it out for some test riding the other night.
The slipping is still there, and seems more pronounced now.
it is even doing it in 3rd now, and possibly second.

an associate of my sons from work (son works commercial at autozone, friend works at a local bike shop) is going to be taking a look at rebuilding the clutch for us. I don't mind some work, but everything i find for re-doing the clutch gives me the fear when i look at it. I know i would screw this one up.


Aliit ori'shya tal'din - Gar taldin ni jaonyc; gar sa buir, ori'wadaas'la - Ke nu'jurkadir sha Mando'ade!


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