1976 Help


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Thu May 08, 2014 11:06 am



Good morning all,


I am a new member here, been riding forever and personally ride a 97 Valk. My son and I are working on a 1976 Gl1000 for him. The bike is in excellent condition with about 40k on the engine, 84k on the frame.


When we bought the bike it had electronic ignition that was failing and not sending any spark down the lines to the plugs. The PO was kind enough to save the parts from the original ignition and sent them with the bike, so we swapped it back into place.

Now when the bike attempts to start it will catch once in a while for a couple of seconds and then backfire. Mostly it will just turn without starting. There is spark at the plugs now so things are looking up. But I cannot chase down the other issue.

Any help is certainly welcomed. I can post a video of trying to start it if it will help anyone.


Thanks again.


Glenn
Massachusetts.



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virgilmobile
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Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
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81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
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83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 1976 Help

Postby virgilmobile » Thu May 08, 2014 11:42 am

Get to the basics.Spark..verified at the correct time and use the "split the difference" method for setting the gap.
Compression tested wide open throttle.For a good running engine,expect at least 145 psi wih no more than 5 psi difference between cylinders.Obviously tested after the valves have been adjusted.
Spark plugs.Dry and clean.No oil or soot.
After all that,then tend to the carbs if necessary.There's plenty of info about them,including the floats.They can absorb fuel and raise the level,a very rich condition.
Once in a great while,the inner thermal liner in the exhaust manifold can swell causing a exhaust restriction and a poor running cylinder.Just something to keep in mind.
The bike likes a good battery.Keep it charged up while you work on it.The spark suffers with a weak battery.
Popping in the exhaust..Fuel is passed into the exhaust unburnt from a cylinder then ignited by one that did fire.
You should also check the cam timing and replace the belts as you get it going

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Placerville
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby Placerville » Thu May 08, 2014 12:16 pm

Placerville- 1976 Yellow
Image

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Thu May 08, 2014 7:28 pm

WOW.. Thank you. I guess we have some work to do. Waiting on the Clymer manual for the bike to come in. I could not find one locally.


Does anyone have a good set of how to's on adjusting the timing? I know one of the Valkyrie riders had compiled an amazing collection of maintenance docs. Does anything like that exist for the GL1000?



Thanks again.


Glenn

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Fred Camper
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Thu May 08, 2014 8:38 pm

This thread seems to have the right links for Static Timing including the split method that is important unless you have electronic ignition.

http://goldwingdocs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11969

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Fri May 09, 2014 11:10 am

Thanks.. That looks like it will help tremendously. We will be tearing into this bike some time over the weekend.


If anyone else has any words of advise, I am all ears. :)


Thanks again for the information.

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virgilmobile
Posts: 7651
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 1976 Help

Postby virgilmobile » Fri May 09, 2014 11:23 am

Same guy here but I'll say one thing.
Verify the compression first.There no need to go into the ignition or carbs if the compression is bad.
One step at a time in this order.
valve adjustments,compression.
Then spark
and finally fuel.

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Fri May 09, 2014 4:38 pm

I don't have a compression meter at my disposal right now. I will have to look for one. Although it sounds good, but I know as well as anyone else that you cannot check compression by the seat of your pants.

We have been waiting for the manual to arrive to do the valves. Want to make sure that I have a good reference before tearing into the engine and taking parts off.

The bike was running last year when he parked it. The battery tender that he used boiled the battery to crap and since this was one of 5 motorcycles he owns he decided it was time to clean out one of the sheds.


Thanks again. I will let you know what we find.


Glenn

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Sun May 11, 2014 10:01 am

virgilmobile wrote:Same guy here but I'll say one thing.
Verify the compression first.There no need to go into the ignition or carbs if the compression is bad.
One step at a time in this order.
valve adjustments,compression.
Then spark
and finally fuel.



Not sure what the issue is, but I am having a hell of a time locating a compression guage that is correct for the bike.

gonna have to go buy one I guess. :)

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Fred Camper
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Sun May 11, 2014 3:37 pm

10 mm thread, but one with a rubber end that just pushes into the plug hole and you hold it works fine if you have a helper to hit the starter button.

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WingAdmin
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby WingAdmin » Mon May 12, 2014 12:04 pm

Fred Camper wrote:10 mm thread, but one with a rubber end that just pushes into the plug hole and you hold it works fine if you have a helper to hit the starter button.


I've tried (and I think still have) both types. The threaded one is easier, obviously, but I found that the rubber one works a bit better if you smear a bit of engine oil on the end before you press it up against the spark plug hole.

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Mon May 12, 2014 7:12 pm

OK. I must be old, tired or dumber than a bucket of rocks.

I have checked the compression. Although I dont think the guage is 100% accurate, all seems good. 165-169 on the cylinders. Used the push in type had some fluctuation on the guage, but I think that was the guage. I normalized the readings.

I went to work on the timing, following the suggestions to a T on the instructions we were sent. The light now comes on when the engine hits it's rotation as it should.

I reset the points (Because I was an 'effin idiot and didnt tighten the backing plate when I tried to start it. :) those are now all good.

All of a sudden, I have no power to the bike??? The batter is fully charged (Charger indicates 95% and 12.4v So I think that is OK.


Any help is great. I do know the cyliders smell like turpentine when I vented them.


Thanks guys. If anyone happens to live near Central Mass and wants to stop over and slap me up side the head with this thing, I will make sure there are beverages in the refrigerator.



G

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Fred Camper
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Mon May 12, 2014 7:29 pm

Ignition switches go bad, as does the starter button. Time to get out the voltmeter and figure out where the power from the battery stops.

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Mon May 12, 2014 7:35 pm

Fred Camper wrote:Ignition switches go bad, as does the starter button. Time to get out the voltmeter and figure out where the power from the battery stops.



Will that stop the power from making it to the lights, etc? I have nothing.


Not sure how these are wired. Sorry for the stupid questions, but this is a learning experience. :)

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Fred Camper
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Mon May 12, 2014 7:51 pm

When you said everything was dead I think either the dog bone or ignition switch. Here is a link to the wiring diagram. A very important graphic.

http://www.gwcbg.org/~gwcbg/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&id=1&Itemid=456&lang=en#

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Tue May 13, 2014 6:17 am

Fred Camper wrote:When you said everything was dead I think either the dog bone or ignition switch. Here is a link to the wiring diagram. A very important graphic.

http://www.gwcbg.org/~gwcbg/index.php?option=com_phocadownload&view=category&id=1&Itemid=456&lang=en#



OK. So beating my head against the column in the garage last night the bike suddenly lit up. Obviously a short someplace. Just a matter of finding it now.


On a good note, she started. for about 3 seconds, but she started so we are making progress. Is this bike as finicky as I am running into? or is this an oddity?


Thanks again.

G

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Tue May 13, 2014 3:50 pm

Woo hoo. SHE RAN!!! Well at least for about 30 seconds, then the airbox combusted with some cool looking flames. So it boils down to the fact that I have no low speed jets to speak of. They are nicely clogged.


Since I have never torn into carbs on this bike I have extreme trepidation. I can find a couple of videos on doing so but they are not all that descriptive. Is there an easy way to get at the jets without taking the whole carburetor bank out of the bike?


Thanks again for putting up with my many questions.


Thanks



Glenn

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Fred Camper
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Tue May 13, 2014 9:03 pm

disconnect the battery first.
Disconnect the choke cable.
Remove the air box.
Protect the left side valve cover top with protective tape.
Disconnect the air cut off from the top of the rack.
Loosen the mid point pull cable adjuster, to allow max slack.
You can remove the throttle pull cable from the rack now, or once you have it part way out.
Disconnect the fuel hose from the fuel pump.
Loosen the 8 acorn nuts on the intake tubes very gently, 4 from each side.
Loosen the clamps on the intake tubes on the right side of the bike, very loose.
Loosen the clamps just a bit on the left side.
Rotate the intake upward on the right side, as it allows the rack to pass out of the left side over that protected valve cover.
Now the carb bank comes out the left side just fine, undo the cables unless you already did on the way out.

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

WOOHOO!!! ~Sorta~

Postby glennemay » Tue May 20, 2014 3:14 pm

OK. So we pulled the carbs. Carefully cleaned each and every piece and re-assembled. Definitely some crud built up in there. So much on one that the aluminum piston that holds the needs literally had separated at the head. So we replaced that.


Back on the bike after much anticipation and anxiety and turned her over. Well, she still didnt start. Not well anyway. Ran with a little starter fluid for a couple of seconds, but then died off.

Tinked around a little more with the timing and VOILA!!!! She came to life. Jumped up like a hobbled dragon and belched a little smoke out of the right side exhaust. Tinked with the idle screw a little and a little more adjustment on the timing. She IDLED!!! Kinda. a little rough, but idled the same.

Stood there for a few seconds admiring the fact that the old lady still had life in her. My son with a grin the size of Rhode Island went over, throttled a little bit and was quite happy.

after our admiration was complete, we shut her down and checked. The right side exhaust was hot the left side is STONE COLD!!! Hmmmm.. Check for spark. no left side spark. WTF....


So is there a way to test the coil? Going back out to tink some more. Any suggestions are certainly welcome.



Thanks so much for all of your help. I know I am a newb when it comes to this and being a pain in the arse.. But hey. The kid is INCREDIBLY happy that it ran.


btw, We bought a set of engine guards that I am putting on. They are original Honda but did not come with the band that goes around the front down tube.... Is that just a ubolt? or should I use something more substantial?



Thanks again.


Glenn

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Fred Camper
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Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Tue May 20, 2014 7:19 pm

If they are real Hondaline, then a u-bolt is the attachment used. Those are nice guards and nice ones are hard to find. So two and four are cold. No diagram in front of me' but I do not think they share a coil but I seem to think they share a set of points. So you are very close for sure. And all that you have learned is worth much. Keep the gumption going as you will be riding soon.

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Thu May 22, 2014 12:19 pm

Well, we had some success and a ride on the bike last night.

Not much for power, feels like it's running rich. So upon deciding to return home and twink with the carbs some more, we shut the bike off to chat, from which it never re-awakened. Back to the no power problem. Turn the key, nothing happens. No lights, no clicks, no nothing. Battery is fully charged and connected properly. Fuses all appear good.

We had this problem before, but it resurrected itself with no effort. Thought it was a bad wire, so we taped over the bad spot. Now nothing makes any sense.


Wow, this is a steep learning curve.. :)

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WingAdmin
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Re: 1976 Help

Postby WingAdmin » Thu May 22, 2014 1:41 pm

glennemay wrote:Well, we had some success and a ride on the bike last night.

Not much for power, feels like it's running rich. So upon deciding to return home and twink with the carbs some more, we shut the bike off to chat, from which it never re-awakened. Back to the no power problem. Turn the key, nothing happens. No lights, no clicks, no nothing. Battery is fully charged and connected properly. Fuses all appear good.

We had this problem before, but it resurrected itself with no effort. Thought it was a bad wire, so we taped over the bad spot. Now nothing makes any sense.


What about wiggling the key around a bit? The switch contacts in the key switch can wear out, causing a sudden electrical death for no good reason like you're describing.

Check both sides of the master fuse, make sure you are showing +12V on both sides of it. The master fuse can crack invisibly, causing it to open up even though visually it looks fine.

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Fred Camper
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Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Thu May 22, 2014 2:01 pm

Had to replace my ignition contacts also. The key cylinder is not the problem. So I bought an Emco ignition set and just used the new contacts and mounted them to my old cylinder.

glennemay
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 10:53 am
Location: Hudson, MA
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
19997 GL1500C

Re: 1976 Help

Postby glennemay » Thu May 29, 2014 8:53 pm

OK. 1 problem solved. :) Walked away from it for a couple of days to give the old eyes a chance to re-set. Found a connector behind the left side panel that was not properly connecting. :) So we cleaned it up and we now have power. :)

HOWEVER!!! We also swapped the jets back on the right side bank because they were put in backwards and fired her back up. Unfortunately that did not change one of the main problems we are chasing.

The left side cyliders do not seem to get warm while the right side get ridiculously hot and fast.


Any thoughts on this one?


Thanks
G

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Fred Camper
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Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 1976 Help

Postby Fred Camper » Sat May 31, 2014 9:40 am

The right coil fires plugs one (right side) and two (left side).

Since one gets hot and fires well and two does not, switch the high voltage plug wires between one and two and see if now "one" is cold and "two" becomes hot? If cold does not swap places, then there may be a carb issue.




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