76 GL1000 Won't Fire


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
  • Sponsored Links
madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Sun May 18, 2014 8:58 pm



After cleaning and rebuilding the starter I now could attempt to start this bike. Well that's what I thought......
After installing the starter and fully charged battery, turned gas on and tried to fire it up. I got a little Pop from the exhaust but that was it. I twisted the throttle a bit and choked it, tried to start but no Fire.... Dumped a little gas down the air filter hole and tried to start, got another pop but that's it. Pulled plugs and they were wet, and didnt look that great, so I ran up to Autozone and bought 4 new plugs. Came home gaped and installed, also checked to see if I was getting spark from coils and I was. Still wont fire up just every once and a while get a popping like it wants to fire.

Ive got all 3 components to run but I'm Not.

I did pull the points cover and the gaps looked good. Im kinda at a loss and can't think of what else would cause it not to fire up.



User avatar
Fred Camper
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby Fred Camper » Sun May 18, 2014 9:18 pm

Going to need a bit more back ground about what was done since the last time it ran fine. Sure sounds like the timing is wrong since you have spark and fuel present.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon May 19, 2014 6:14 am

Background That I was told by the PO was the bike ran great last july, (plates expired jan 2013 so maybe it was 2012) the PO was changing the battery at a friends shop and turned away for a sec and when he turned jumped the Pos+ terminal to the frame via screw driver and blew out the main fuse. PO changed the solenoid thinking he fried it, then he didn't have the time to find the main fuse to replace it and working 2 jobs having 2 kids in college it got put on the back burner, PO said he drained the tank before he put it away.......Then I bought it, may 10 2014.

What I've done:
I located where the main fuse was suppose to be and it was cut out (near the solenoid)....I 'm not sure if it was wired direct or not, It wasn't connected when I located it. I have soldered in a waterproof blade fuse holder and put in a 30A main fuse. After wiring in the fuse I checked for power and everything lights up, brake light functions as well as turn signals. The starter
wasn't working so I pulled it and cleaned and rebuilt it. works great now.. slow charged the battery and installed after the started was in.... the rest of what I have done is in the first post.

Bike has about 81000 miles
I did think about the timing being off and located the timing belt removal and replacement over at the NGW site.
I will pull the radiator, fan and plugs to remove the cover and change the belts. If one of the belts did break is this and a non interference engine or and inference engine. I havent been able to find and answer for that.

User avatar
dingdong
Posts: 2865
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am
Location: Oklahoma City
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000
1993 gl1500
2004 NRX1800 Rune

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby dingdong » Mon May 19, 2014 6:47 am

Yes to the engine being an interference type. Belt breaks valves bend.
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon May 19, 2014 8:03 am

Thanks for that info, thats what I feared....any way to tell by pulling the valve covers off? Will it be obvious?

User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby WingAdmin » Mon May 19, 2014 8:08 am

madhouze803 wrote:Thanks for that info, thats what I feared....any way to tell by pulling the valve covers off? Will it be obvious?


Just check the compression on each of the cylinders. If you have a cylinder with zero compression, then you have your answer.

User avatar
dingdong
Posts: 2865
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am
Location: Oklahoma City
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000
1993 gl1500
2004 NRX1800 Rune

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby dingdong » Mon May 19, 2014 8:13 am

Before you worry about bent valves pull the timing covers and check the belts. The timing being off doesn't mean a broken belt. The timing is adjustable at the points plate. Check here for timing technique. http://www.randakksblog.com/ignition-qu ... technique/
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon May 19, 2014 3:36 pm

Ok I'll Check the belts timing and points gap. I'm reading the link you posted, I'll post my findings when I get them...Thanks for the help...

User avatar
Fred Camper
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby Fred Camper » Mon May 19, 2014 7:41 pm

A compression test is a great idea. It is a 10 mm plug thread but a push in tester works if you have a helper to hold it in while you spin her over with that now fast starter. Since a belt broke this is an essential evaluation.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon May 19, 2014 8:14 pm

Fred I dont know for sure that a belt broke... im going to remove the covers this week and check. I tried today but my 10mm wrench wasnt long enough to get the inside bolts with out removing the raditor. I am stopping on my way home tomorrow to buy long reach and ratching wrenches to try and get them out.

Side note: Fred where at in metro detroit are you? Im in the white lake Waterford area.

User avatar
Fred Camper
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby Fred Camper » Mon May 19, 2014 9:20 pm

I am between Rochester and Romeo. So not too far away. A belt can jump also when old. So look for that as well. Those cover bolts are not torqued high so once you have the reach you will be good.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon May 26, 2014 3:28 pm

I Finally had a few minutes today and got the timing belt covers off, and the BELTS are good not broken. So I proceeded to check and see if the timing marks line up. Pulled the plugs, pulled the generator cover plug, and couldn't find the timing mark plug. I checked the service manual that i found on line and and it only has timing belt removal nothing about setting/adjusting timing.

this is what i'm looking for



I plan on changing the belts and tensioners but want to make sure i can get the bike to fire up first. so I'm not changing too much at once.

User avatar
Fred Camper
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby Fred Camper » Mon May 26, 2014 9:50 pm

There are Honda Service available to you. I think you can pm someone which knows the link. Static timing is all you need to set. No timing light required. Good plan on getting it running before further teardown. But do change the belts within an hour after you get it running. Hard to figure how the timing could be far off.

User avatar
aussiegold
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:02 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1975 Goldwing (No 8 to come to Oz )
1976 LTD cleverly diguised as an 81 interstate
1976 LTD.. a feller with 2 LTD's can't be all bad.....

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby aussiegold » Tue May 27, 2014 5:19 am

Fred Camper wrote:I am between Rochester and Romeo. So not too far away. A belt can jump also when old. So look for that as well. Those cover bolts are not torqued high so once you have the reach you will be good.

an old belt will not ever 'jump'. it's impossible. what nonsense. the first place to start checking is to make sure the correct plug wires go to the correct plugs,
sounds to me the wires are crossed. start at the beginning. check that and then move on to the setting and timing of the points. here are some pics to refer to.


User avatar
dingdong
Posts: 2865
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am
Location: Oklahoma City
Motorcycle: 1976 gl1000
1993 gl1500
2004 NRX1800 Rune

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby dingdong » Tue May 27, 2014 6:23 am

That plug for the timing is on the left side rear of the engine block. Look down and behind the left rear carb toward the center if the engine.
Tom

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:09 pm

I finally got a few and pulled the timing plug, and got the points gap set to 4mm(.016). I rotated the engine over several times and checked it at highest spot on both lobes and its perfect. Moved to the timing I rotated the engine to the " -F-1- mark and using a circuit test light connected to the Left side of the points the light was dim so I loosened the screws on the the sides so I could move the points base plate and it would't move either way. Is there some thing special I need to know to move the plate? i didnt want to force it and break something... I did not try to the other side.

User avatar
aussiegold
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:02 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1975 Goldwing (No 8 to come to Oz )
1976 LTD cleverly diguised as an 81 interstate
1976 LTD.. a feller with 2 LTD's can't be all bad.....

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby aussiegold » Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:06 pm

have a read of this " how to " and follow it step by step. it will all come together. :D
http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10527

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:56 am

Thats what I was following, I printed it off and was doing setp by step but it doesnt say anything about the points base plate if you have issues moving it. I got the ponits gap set but when it comes to moving the plate for timing set mine wouldnt budge... and I didnt want to force it.

User avatar
aussiegold
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:02 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1975 Goldwing (No 8 to come to Oz )
1976 LTD cleverly diguised as an 81 interstate
1976 LTD.. a feller with 2 LTD's can't be all bad.....

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby aussiegold » Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:01 am

the first picture in that how to thread, shows the entire points plate. right at the top of the base plate there are two notches. make sure the two screws that hold the base plate in, are loose. put the tip of a screwdriver in the notch and use it as a lever to move the base plate. it should move freely. the base plate just sits against the housing.

Lastwachter
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:47 pm
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Motorcycle: 1978 Honda GoldWing
2000 Buell Blast

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby Lastwachter » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:51 pm

aussiegold wrote: the first place to start checking is to make sure the correct plug wires go to the correct plugs,
sounds to me the wires are crossed. start at the beginning. check that and then move on to the setting and timing of the points. here are some pics to refer to.


I 2nd this. I had this issue, well thought I did. It turned out the timing was so off that having them backwards worked better than having them in correctly. The symptoms were popping and not starting.

I got the timing spot on and made sure the plugs were in the right order and it fixed the problem. Definitely something to check.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:21 pm

I got a few more minutes over the weekend to do some work. before all the timing work,I bought a starter from a guy over at the ngw because mine wasn't working any more, I pulled it back apart just to check things out and couldn't see anything wrong. Got the new starter and installed works 100% better than mine did after I first pulled it apart.

Now the timing:

I checked the coils and plug wires and everything looks to be correct. I loosened the 2 screws for the points base plate and played with it for a few and got it to move. Tightened them up and rotated the engine to the F1 marks, using a test light connect to the Left points spring and the negative terminal on the battery, Key is in the "ON" position, no Light period. I loosened the points base plate screws and moved it clockwise till it stopped and counter clockwise till it stopped still no light. I moved it back to where about it was, tightened the screws back down and rotated the engine around about1-1/2"- 2" on the crank the light comes on.... according to randakks blog 1/2" is about 5 degrees so I seem to be 15 - 20 degrees off. I did the same thing with the right side and its about the same 1 1/2" -2" then the light comes on. I thought maybe the points might be backwards so I traced the wires back and swapped them around and re checked everything still nothing. How has the timing gotten this far out? but BETTER question how do I fix it???

User avatar
Fred Camper
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby Fred Camper » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:42 pm

Sure would seem like the cam belt is off then as it is driven by a camshaft.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:00 pm

Cam Belt?? do u mean timing belt? I still have the timing belt covers off and I did rotate the engine from the right cam to line up the marks then checked to see if the timing marks on the crank were visible and no they weren't. Looking like I'll be doing the timing belts next, may not replace them right now just get everything lined up then set timing and try to fire it. if all goes well Then I'll replace the belts.

User avatar
aussiegold
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:02 am
Location: Australia
Motorcycle: 1975 Goldwing (No 8 to come to Oz )
1976 LTD cleverly diguised as an 81 interstate
1976 LTD.. a feller with 2 LTD's can't be all bad.....

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby aussiegold » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:52 am

madhouze803 wrote:Cam Belt?? do u mean timing belt? I still have the timing belt covers off and I did rotate the engine from the right cam to line up the marks then checked to see if the timing marks on the crank were visible and no they weren't. Looking like I'll be doing the timing belts next, may not replace them right now just get everything lined up then set timing and try to fire it. if all goes well Then I'll replace the belts.

yes, he means timing belts ( two of them ) you have the timing belt covers off, you should be turning the engine by hand using the bolt in the rear case. clockwise only.
turn it to the T1 mark.
ensure the marks on both cams line up with the marks on the cases.
if they both point inwards , turn the engine one more full revolution
you have already gapped the points, so now follow the steps to time it.
a good tip is to place a piece of cardboard between the points you are not timing.
and above all.......DONT PANIC....ha ha .... it'll all come together.
ps
almost forgot.
ensure that the timing advance mechanism ( behind the points plate ) is working correctly.
if it is sticking , pull the points plate off and lubricate it.

madhouze803
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat May 10, 2014 7:08 pm
Location: Detroit MI
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000

Re: 76 GL1000 Won't Fire

Postby madhouze803 » Wed Jun 18, 2014 4:07 pm

I've been reading through the process of changing the timing belts over @ nwg http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3544

For me right now I just need to set the timing correctly, so here is what I was thinking of the process of me as of now.

1. turn crank to the T-1 position with cam marks to the outside

2 loosen both left and right tension rollers

3 set the both cam sprockets so the marks line up exactly where they need to be.

4 Apply pressure to the left side cam sprocket and let the spring on the roller pick the slack then tighten the left roller.
4a.rotate the engine 360 degrees with marks on the inside and t1 mark on the crank then tighten the right roller.

5 roll engine over my hand a few times and check the timing marks then move on the setting the timing on points base plate.

Does this sound correct since i'm not changing the belts and my timing isn't correct.

Also how to check the timing advance mechanism and make sure its working correctly I couldn't find any threads on it.




Return to “GL1000 Information & Questions”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSNbot Media [Bot] and 1 guest