79 gl1000 electrical issue


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stupidman
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79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:39 pm



Hey everyone stupidman here:
issue is when pushing start button oil pressure/neutrel light go very dim and I get almost a moaning sound from the starter relay, when start button released they go back to normal however over a period of 10-15 seconds they start to fade and go out. In addition I discovered(by accident) that negative post on the battery becomes quite warm.
so far:
Battery holds 12.2 volts and been load tested checked out o.k.
starter relay replaced with new.
3 yellow wire fix has been done.
ignition switch replaced with new.
I've checked all connectors I can locate with no suspects found in addition to checking grounding points.
I do not know what else to do !! HELP (electrical mystifies me anyway).



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virgilmobile
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:49 pm

3 Possibilities.
The starter is shot or the ground cable is corroded.Check where it bolts to the frame too.
You can unhook the wire that feeds the starter and test it again.Avoid disconnecting it at the starter motor.You need to have a 10mm wrench under the cable before you can loosen the top nut.
If the starter is shorted out,it will draw a tremendous amount of power.If its so,the battery volts will drop pretty quick.
Also,the start solenoid has a trap door when its unplugged.Inside is a dogbone fuse.Always suspect it as falling apart.Theres usually a spare in the door.Replace it.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:26 pm

Thanks for your responce:
First my error in original post, I forgot to advise that I installed an automotive 30 amp blade fuse assy to replace the original dogbone master fuse( if that is the one you are speaking of). Also both battery cables have been cleaned at each end even though they did not look suspect(not at the starter motor yet) neither cable shows any resistance when checked with an ohm meter.
Had the wing about 10yrs, always garaged when not on the road and never before experienced any kind of starter issue (ie no strange noise or dragging etc.
I've removed and cleaned the negative ground cable(even though it did not look suspect) where it bolts to the frame.
Pardon my ignorance but is the starter relay the same as the starter solenoid you mention ??? If not please advise so I can investigate further, also know that I have already replaced the starter relay with a new one if indeed it is one in the same.
I cannot express my gratitude enough to you for taking the time to offer your assistance, all I can say via this communication is a giant
"THANK YOU"
best regards,
stupidman

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virgilmobile
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:56 pm

Same part different name.unhook the starter wire and watch the volts or lights.
Any chance its hydrolocked.?
You could also kill the ignition and pull all 4 plugs and bump the starter again.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:18 pm

Hey to everybody,
Still have same issue without a resolution, my time for investigation has been limited recently due to work related issues. Anyway I was back at it again trying to figuire it out and out of frustration I jumped from positive batt terminal to starter motor terminal with no joy !!
MY QUESTION IS: Does this positively indicate a bad starter motor or could there be any other possible reason why the direct jump did not engage/spin the starter motor ?????
As always I thank you all for any comments/suggestions.
regards,
stupidman

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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby Old Fogey » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:47 am

stupidman wrote:Hey everyone stupidman here:
issue is when pushing start button oil pressure/neutrel light go very dim and I get almost a moaning sound from the starter relay, when start button released they go back to normal however over a period of 10-15 seconds they start to fade and go out. In addition I discovered(by accident) that negative post on the battery becomes quite warm.


That would seem to indicate a direct short in the system somewhere. I assume that the battery post cools off once the ignition is switch off?

stupidman wrote:Hey to everybody,
Still have same issue without a resolution, my time for investigation has been limited recently due to work related issues. Anyway I was back at it again trying to figuire it out and out of frustration I jumped from positive batt terminal to starter motor terminal with no joy !!
MY QUESTION IS: Does this positively indicate a bad starter motor or could there be any other possible reason why the direct jump did not engage/spin the starter motor ?????


Did you still have the starter connected to the solenoid when you did this.? If so, first take that feed wire off the starter and try jumping it again. I think you have a faulty solenoid, or it's wired incorrectly.
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:09 pm

I'm back at it again(too many irons in the fire" I tried removing the positive batt cable that connects to the relay and then direct jumping from positive batt terminal to starter terminal, still no joy ! I then tried jumping from my pick-up directly to the starter terminal with black cable grounded to the engine and positive cable to starter terminal still no joy !
With my very limited knowledge I am assuming the starter motor has gone south ,way south would my deduction be correct ???
Also please know that in both attempts I had my hand "grasping" the starter motor and there was nothing, no responce at all.
One more question I have is: When I replaced the starter solenoid with new one earlier if I had reversed the primary wire leads that come directly from the solenoid could that be my issue(the color coding of the new solenoid did not match original wiring harness)?
Again THANKS MEGA LOADS FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.
regards,
stupidman

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virgilmobile
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:17 pm

I still suggest removing all 4 spark plugs and trying again.
If it is hydrolocked and should spin over,it will shoot gas 10' from the bike.be careful.KILL the ignition.
With the plugs removed you can also turn the engine over by turning the rear wheel in 5th gear.
Also,have you verified the battery is OK.Load testing is usually free at most places.Have it checked.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:30 pm

Yes I did have the batt checked and was told it was ok, however in order to completely eliminate a batt issue is why I tried the jump from my pick-up. That being said I will remove the plugs and see the results, will advise.
regards,
stupidman

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:39 pm

Removed plugs and manually turned the engine over via the rear wheel, no evidence of hydrolock, in addition I tried to direct jump the starter again with the plugs removed still no joy !
regards,
stupidman

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virgilmobile
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:18 pm

Ok.Now it's confirmed,starter is dead.
Sorry about the run around.I got caught for half a day working on a starter,solenoid and battery just to find out it was hydrolocked.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:42 pm

I do not take your advice as the "run around", I do however greatly appreciate your time, effort and experience in helping me diagnose my issue. If per chance we would ever bump into each other "the beer is on me"
thanks again for your assistance,
stupidman

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virgilmobile
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:22 am

Are you gonna pull the starter and have a look inside?

Beware of cheap OEM "replacements"

Some are OK,Some are....well , let's just say...not so good.
It's the magic word ."replacement" or just like or "I got one that looks like that"

If given a choice,I always insist on "ORIGINAL" equipment.
There's too much plastic and cheap stuff in the aftermarket ones.

I have heard of one fellow who bought a "cheap Korean knockoff" then used his gear head from his old starter on the new motor assembly.
Something about the sprocket didn't fit the chain,the sprockets were not interchangeable and the ring gear in the planitairy drive was plastic.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:28 pm

Yes I'm of course going to pull it and have a look, if it seems FUBAR I'll have to look for a replacement, thanks for the heads up on the "cheapies"
regards,
stupidman

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virgilmobile
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83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:00 pm

Keep us posted with pictures.dont give up on it.even bad looking ones can sometimes be made new again.Lets look see.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:52 pm

Will do if I can get the SOB out, bike is on side stand now, unbolted starter, caught oil drain in pan, removed shift lever, dropped exhaust header however no matter how I try it seems the #3 cyclinder inside header mounting stud(the one that is screwed into the head) will not allow me to remove the starter motor !!!. Clearance is almost but no matter how I try to manipulate the starter it will not come out.
I need advice on how to remove this stud without damage to it. All ideas would be greatly appreciated.
regards,
stupidman

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virgilmobile
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78 GL1000
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82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:52 am

You have the worst luck.I don't recall any problem removing any of mine.
I suppose if it won't come out,you could remove the gear head screws and seperated the motor from it.Take it out in 2 pieces.First the motor the the gearhead.You would have to put it back in the same way.
I had to do this on a 1200 once but not on the 1000.

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stupidman
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Re: 79 gl1000 electrical issue

Postby stupidman » Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:51 pm

Got the header stud removed with minor damage, vice grips super tight with black tape protection(re-read honda shop manual,it says mandatory) starter easily removed with stud removed. Stupidman strikes again !!!!
Anyway, At first look: All looks relatively clean, no excessive carbon residue in my opinion, planitery end looks pretty dry however,brush length looks approx 10mm(good), will do continuity check next.
Upon removal did a check with 12volt source and it spins freely, no load of course. Continuity check coming when time allows !!
Hope pics come thru ok, my first attempt at everything.
regards,
stupidman
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