Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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erik.94
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Motorcycle: Honda gl 1000

Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:55 am



HI ! I have som big problems on my gl 1000 1977. Runs ok at neutral, but when i driving away, its no power and the engine missfires, when i come up to 3000 rpm its better. At 5000 its almost good, very good power and no missfires. I have installed dyna ignition, with coils and wires, clean carbs good compression. I am trying and trying but never get it realy good, please help me. I am going on a europe trip in a fez weeks i realy need your help !!



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HawkeyeGL1200
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1981 GL1100 Interstate

Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:57 am

Have you balanced the carbs since working on the motorcycle? Low speed sputtering and poor operation can be caused by many things. I would check to see if the carbs are balanced before doing too much else.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:21 am

I have set the throttle the same on all 4 carbs, i will sync them later. But i think, with full trottel, it doesnt matter if the carbs isnt exactly synced. I will do it with the correkt tool later, but first i need the bike to go ok. Am i wrong?

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:34 am

Balancing helps with low(er) RPMs most, but does have an overall effect on how the engine will run at all speeds. Balancing the idle circuit(s) through rack adjustment, you are more likely to have the same amount of throttle in each of the four carbs at all speeds. At full throttle, minor differences will be less obvious. Taking off from a stop is where I notice the difference most. When you hear the primary chain rattle, experience backfiring, and can feel a bump in the handle bars, it is possible the carbs are not balanced. Of course, there are many different problems that can cause trouble as well. One or more of the carbs with blockage, water in the fuel, and many others.

I use a product from Chevron as a fuel additive. It has something in it call Techrolene (Or something like that) and it seems to keep the inside of my carbs clean as anything I've ever tried. I do not know what they put in your gasoline where you live. In the US, we have 10% ethanol added and it can make a mess of a set of carbs in a few weeks, if the engine isn't operated frequently. The Ethanol doesn't seem to bother fuel injection as much, but older engines with carbs have some difficulty with it.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:13 am

What do you mean with "rack adjustment"? Do you mean syncronisice the carburettors?

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:24 pm

erik.94 wrote:What do you mean with "rack adjustment"? Do you mean syncronisice the carburettors?


I mean you can adjust the fuel control (RACK screws) to the same "mechanical" position and still have a LOT of difference between the Vacuum on all four carbs. Some kind of vacuum gauge is going to have to be used in order to get the carbs all balanced.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:21 am

I am not very good att english language, i search for "rack screws" but dont find anything to know what it is. I guess that you mean the air/fuel screw who is one on every carb, according to the manual should they be 2.5 laps from bottom. Is it that screws you mean?

Yesterday i clean the spark plugs and go out for a drive 10 minutes, and then i checked the plugs again, and the left plugs were black, and the right sems ok. What reason can that be? I think now its clear that the problem is a 100 % carb problem?

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:49 am

erik.94 wrote:I am not very good att english language, i search for "rack screws" but dont find anything to know what it is. I guess that you mean the air/fuel screw who is one on every carb, according to the manual should they be 2.5 laps from bottom. Is it that screws you mean?

Yesterday i clean the spark plugs and go out for a drive 10 minutes, and then i checked the plugs again, and the left plugs were black, and the right sems ok. What reason can that be? I think now its clear that the problem is a 100 % carb problem?


When I wrote "rack adjustment" what I mean is, the mechanical adjustment on the carb shafts. There is no way, that I am aware of, to make sure each carb is set to the correct setting without using a vacuum gauge set. If your left side plugs are turning black, they are most likely getting too much fuel. If you have a set of vacuum gauges or if you can borrow a set of gauges, you have to balance left side, right side, then balance both sides to each other.

I'm sure the process is covered in the repair manual. If I recall correctly, the #3 carb on the GL1000 cannot be adjusted, so, you have to balance #1 to #3, then balance #2 to #4, then balance #2 / #4 to #1 / #3.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:23 am

I have vacum gauge, and trying to sync the carbs right now. With 1000 rpm, all 4 carbs have a vacum who is very bad, less then half what it should be. very Comfused

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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:38 pm

It is best to use (4) four gauges. If you can calibrate the gauges to the #3 carb and then attach one gauge to each cylinder intake elbow, you can balance #1 and #3 as a set, then #2 and #4 as a set, then adjust the left side and right side together until the gauges all read the same.

The amount of vacuum on the gauges doe not matter as long as they are all close to the same value.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby Old Fogey » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:29 pm

I think you are absolutely right that it's all in the carbs.
The GL1000 carbs need to be carefully cleaned as the idle circuits are very small. All the seals need to be in good condition too. The pistons need to move freely, and they definitely need to be synchronised.

I don't know how much time you have, or whether you would be interested, but I can do a clean and rebuild on your carbs with the best soft parts available (from Randakk's Cycle Shakk), to eliminate most of the problems:

http://www.wingovations.com/carb-rebuilds/4579471064

I'm only just across the water from you, in Scotland.
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erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:30 am

I will go on a europe trip in a few weeks, so i dont have much time and have to do it myself. But i need the engine go okej, before I synk? I mean, the engine runs bad at 3000 rpm and full trottle, its nothing to do with the sync of the carbs right?

stealth
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1100 + sidecar

Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby stealth » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:48 am

Hi,

I'm following this thread with great interest since I just took apart the carbs of my 1976 GL1000 with sidecar.
It sure wasn't running well... at all. Difficult to start and not getting right amounts of fuel/air at low revs. Misfires and rattles in Engine.
Hope it's OK Erik to join the thread? Think we can have similar problems.
Continuing to deassembling all parts today trying to figure out if anything needs replacement, did you repair carbs Erik or was it enough cleaning them?

Best Regards, Jimmy

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:35 am

Hi, of course. I have a totaly new ignition system from dyna, with coils and everything. Good compression in all 4 cyl. I have cleande the carbs once, but now when I see that 2 plugs on left side are black, and now I think its clear its a carb problem after all. Now I have ordered new carb repair kit for all 4 carbs, with all new nozzles and every gasket. This time i will clean the carbs 100% perfekt in molecular. If this dont solve the problem I will be VERRY VERRY comfused...

stealth
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby stealth » Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:43 am

Nice!

Here is the youtube (3 parts) that helped me alot to get all parts out. [youtube]

[/YouTube]

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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby Old Fogey » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:27 am

Why on earth would you want to watch a video of someone who has never had one of these sets apart before in his life! :shock:
So many things wrong with that video that I stopped watching long before the end.

If you need a video, Randakk's is the one, since he probably knows more about these carbs than Honda does! And his Master Kit is also the only kit of soft parts that we will use in rebuilds, because it's the best there is. All the seals are Viton; essential to prevent them deteriorating due to the ethanol in today's fuel.

Hard parts like jets and needles very, very rarely need to be replaced. Many after-market kits have badly sized jets and some have float needles that will give you trouble in a very short time.

Yes, you could say we have a vested interest in promoting Randakk's stuff since we are his worldwide agent, but the truth is that we use and promote his stuff because his parts and attention to detail are second to none.

If you have not done so before, go here and read the articles on GL1000 carbs:
http://www.randakksblog.com/category/ho ... el-gl1000/

Also read this: http://www.wingovations.com/gl1000-main ... 4579471123
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HawkeyeGL1200
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:55 am

Being a lazy person, I tend to try to dfix things the easiest way I know. I would try balancing the carbs to one another before I removed them for ANY reason, FIRST... if that doesn't make a difference, then I'd try putting a fuel system cleaner in the fuel and the last thing I'd do is pull the carbs off to rebuild.

I have no problem believing that Randakk has forgotten more about motorcycle carbs than I ever knew. From the few things I've seen regarding his knowledge of Goldwing Carbs, he may be the smartest carb guy on the planet... again, I don't know. What I do know is, when I bought my GL1200, I was fairly well convinced I needed the carbs overhauled, but small adjustments and some good fuel with some (SeaFoam initially, followed by Chevron fuel system cleaner periodically) has made my engine run very well. Rebuilding the carbs may make it run even better... but I'm not going down that road as long as the engine runs smoothly and performs as well as it does...

So, I'll repeat what I'd check if I had a fuel problem:Air Filter, Fuel filter, Fuel pump, Fuel lines, Vacuum lines (ALL OF THEM on the engine), Spark plugs, spark plug wires (condition, end connections, boots and resistors), GROUNDS (everywhere on the entire ignition system and charging system)... Carb Synchronization, linkages on the carbs while performing the carb synchro... While engine is idling, spray some starting fluid (small amounts) at intake elbows, boots, linkages that penetrate the airbox, plenum, runners and carbs to see if there is an air inleakage issue... and if all else fails, I'd pull my carbs and either replace them with a rebuilt set, or send them to a guy who knows what he's doing (Like Randakk) and have them completely cleaned and rebuilt... If I put rebuilt carbs on, then I'd start with the Carb synchro and move forward from there... maybe cleaning out my fuel tank to be sure it is clean before installing the rebuilt set of carbs.

Our motorcycles don't require much in order to run... Clean air, clean fuel mixed in the correct ratio and delivered to the intake.. correct spark at the right time, and decent compression about does it. We often over-think these things and look at the things we understand least as the areas that are giving us trouble, when it is often the little things we bypass that are actually the cause of the trouble in the first place... start from the simple and move toward the complex when looking for running problems... don't assume it is the most complicated thing(s) that are keeping our machines running poorly...

Putting away my soapbox now.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby Old Fogey » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:54 am

Hawkeye,
I go along with most of what you post, in making sure you have done all the obvious things first.
But he has already replaced all the ignition system, there is only one vacuum pipe on the 1000 (the others are pilot air pipes), the 1200 carbs are waaay simpler to clean or overhaul than the 1000s and give much less trouble.
One problem you highlight, air leaks around the manifold boots. These rubbers are now 30odd years old and HARD. Get the engine hot first and really tighten the clamps. This can cure a load of problems. Make sure the manifold-to-head O rings are good too.
One thing I didn't see mentioned anywhere in this thread was setting the float height. Super critical on these carbs is the 21mm set height.
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Motorcycle: 1976 GL1100 + sidecar

Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby stealth » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:29 pm

Thank you for your expert comments, this forum is really helpful :)
And thanks for the 21mm height, was just looking for that.
We'll see if assembling goes well tomorrow and sync results are good.

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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby Fred Camper » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:49 pm

I have no business interest in Randakk, but Randall Washington is the master of the GL1000 carb, makes the best kit (the only one worth buying) and an excellent video. I also like Mike Nixon's book on the GL1000 carbs, a great complement to the video. Our time is too valuable to mess around with inferior kits.

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:28 am

Thanks for answers. All ignition parts are new, and the left side cylinders have black plugs, the right plugs seems ok. Left rear and left front cylinder does not have nothing to do with each, so as I see the ignition has nothing to do with this, everything is new too.
I set the carb floats at 21 mm, no different. I test adjust the air/fuel screw on both left carbs, no different. Fuel pump sends a good amount of gas. Fuel lines are new, air cut of valve is new. Fuel filter new. I tested with starting gas, and i think the engine responds when I spray around the carbs. I am very skeptical to that a small intake leak can make a loss of almost 2 cylinders, but I will check closer to that. The orings betwen the head and manifolds are new.

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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby HawkeyeGL1200 » Thu Jul 17, 2014 5:42 pm

erik.94 wrote:Thanks for answers. All ignition parts are new, and the left side cylinders have black plugs, the right plugs seems ok. Left rear and left front cylinder does not have nothing to do with each, so as I see the ignition has nothing to do with this, everything is new too.
I set the carb floats at 21 mm, no different. I test adjust the air/fuel screw on both left carbs, no different. Fuel pump sends a good amount of gas. Fuel lines are new, air cut of valve is new. Fuel filter new. I tested with starting gas, and i think the engine responds when I spray around the carbs. I am very skeptical to that a small intake leak can make a loss of almost 2 cylinders, but I will check closer to that. The orings betwen the head and manifolds are new.


It is my opinion that you need to use a set of vacuum gauges to synchronize the left and right side carbs. There is no "mechanical" adjustment you can perform (without the use of gauges to VERIFY the vacuum is even on all cylinders) that will get the carbs all in synchronous fuel delivery. Until you balance the flow with gauges, you'll never know where to look next, if that does not resolve your two "black" and two "normal" looking plugs.
I am wrong as often as I am right concerning what is wrong with someone else' motorcycle without having seen the machine in person. Guessing with limited information, as to the source of the trouble, is sketchy at best.

erik.94
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby erik.94 » Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:30 am

Okej I trust you who probably nows more than me,I will try to sync the carbs again today.

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GL1000-1976-SCX-593P
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby GL1000-1976-SCX-593P » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:50 am

I haven't read every post on this topic but I have just had my GL1000 carbs cleaned and undated by Wingovations, balanced them after fitting and the bike runs lovely now, if you were thinking of doing that John was very quick doing it and when they came back it took me 4 hours to put them back and balance them even though id never done it before, so basically it can be a quick process.

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Fred Camper
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Re: Honda gl 1000 never get engine running well.

Postby Fred Camper » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:02 am

John at Wingovations is a master, no surprise that they came out so well. He uses the Randakk kit.




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