78 GL1000 Issues


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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raymanwaldo
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78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Tue Aug 26, 2014 11:21 am



Hello everyone. I am newish to this forum. I have done a lot of reading on this forum. This is my first post. Last weekend I bought a 78 GL1000 for 300 bucks. The previous owner said that it was ridden until June of this year. It has been sitting for a couple of months. It would not fire up. After doing some reading on here, I decided to start with the fuel pump. Come to find out they put an external electric pump on the bike. They had it grounded to the frame and the power to the ACC box inside the "wing". It was not getting power. I found a wire that only got power with the key on and ran the pump to that wire. Pump now works, but the solenoid would not engage and just click when the start button was pressed. Once again after reading some posts, I decided to go with the Ford solenoid that was mentioned more than a few times. Wired and mounted the new solenoid. Pulled to full choke, pressed the start button, twisted the throttle a little and VROOOM. So excited. Let it idle at about 3k rpm will full choke on for about 5 minutes and closed the choke. Spit sputter die. Tried to start without the choke on it would try and fire but never start. Full choke a little throttle and fired right up. So I decided to let it idle with full choke for about 20 minutes to allow the bike to complete warm up. Turned off the choke, **** sputter die. Last night a put 1/2 a bottle of sea foam in the talk with about half a tank of gas. Ran the bike with full throttle for about 45 minutes. still will not run without the choke. I left the floats with gas and sea foam mixture over night to let soak into some of the grim that I am sure is in the carbs. When I get off work today I will fire the bike up again and let run for about 45 minutes and see if it will run without the choke. Other than this, I was also thinking I may need to replace the air cut off valve kit. I do not want to have to take the carbs apart. Any advice that I may have missed?



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Placerville
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Placerville » Tue Aug 26, 2014 1:13 pm

You will receive several responses, all with varying advise. Here's mine:

I would replace the aftermarket electric fuel pump with a (still available) stock unit from Honda. They are proven performers. Electric pumps have their good points e.g., immediate fuel to carbs after a long period of non-use but, to me, the OEM look is cleaner and they are more reliable.

Regarding your carbs.... Saying, "I don't want to have to take the carbs apart" makes me want to say, "Then why did you buy a $300 vintage motorcycle?" Vintage bikes require a lot of work to bring them to the level of being reliable runners. Pouring magic liquids into their tanks and carbs in hopes that you'll avoid that work is wishful thinking at best. It's very likely that your carbs need attention (and that's only one of the reasons why the PO sold it).

Pull your carbs and decide whether you want to rebuild them yourself or, spend more money ($400) and pay someone else to do it. If you possess basic mechanical knowledge, can follow detailed instructions, are organized, patient and methodical you can rebuild them yourself. If you do, go Randakk all the way. Buy his kit and video. If you have someone else do them, the best choices are either Pistol Pete or Mike Nixon. While your carbs are out, go through your entire fuel system. Clean your tank, rebuild your petcock, replace your fuel lines and your filter. Once done, you'll be sure that your newly rebuild carbs (and investment) won't be ruined by sludge from upstream. You got that bike for a song and it's worth it to invest some money to make sure it's reliable and running properly.

Fact: All PO's lie. You're going to continue to find issues with this bike that need repair so, don't be intimidated by the prospect of mechanical challenges. You'll learn a lot. Dive in and have fun.
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SnoBrdr
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby SnoBrdr » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:51 pm

Placerville wrote:You will receive several responses, all with varying advise. Here's mine:

I would replace the aftermarket electric fuel pump with a (still available) stock unit from Honda. They are proven performers. Electric pumps have their good points e.g., immediate fuel to carbs after a long period of non-use but, to me, the OEM look is cleaner and they are more reliable.

Regarding your carbs.... Saying, "I don't want to have to take the carbs apart" makes me want to say, "Then why did you buy a $300 vintage motorcycle?" Vintage bikes require a lot of work to bring them to the level of being reliable runners. Pouring magic liquids into their tanks and carbs in hopes that you'll avoid that work is wishful thinking at best. It's very likely that your carbs need attention (and that's only one of the reasons why the PO sold it).

Pull your carbs and decide whether you want to rebuild them yourself or, spend more money ($400) and pay someone else to do it. If you possess basic mechanical knowledge, can follow detailed instructions, are organized, patient and methodical you can rebuild them yourself. If you do, go Randakk all the way. Buy his kit and video. If you have someone else do them, the best choices are either Pistol Pete or Mike Nixon. While your carbs are out, go through your entire fuel system. Clean your tank, rebuild your petcock, replace your fuel lines and your filter. Once done, you'll be sure that your newly rebuild carbs (and investment) won't be ruined by sludge from upstream. You got that bike for a song and it's worth it to invest some money to make sure it's reliable and running properly.

Fact: All PO's lie. You're going to continue to find issues with this bike that need repair so, don't be intimidated by the prospect of mechanical challenges. You'll learn a lot. Dive in and have fun.


Hard to put it any better than that.

raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:35 pm

Ok. So I have downloaded and printed the service manual for the bike. I am going to build this bike right. I will be taking the carbs out and rebuild them. I am wondering since I am pulling the carbs out if I should go ahead and get a top end gasket kit, or should I just bite the bullet and do a complete motor gasket kit. Should I need a complete rebuild or should the top end cleaning and rebuild be sufficient?

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Placerville
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Placerville » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:03 pm

raymanwaldo wrote:Ok. So I have downloaded and printed the service manual for the bike. I am going to build this bike right. I will be taking the carbs out and rebuild them. I am wondering since I am pulling the carbs out if I should go ahead and get a top end gasket kit, or should I just bite the bullet and do a complete motor gasket kit. Should I need a complete rebuild or should the top end cleaning and rebuild be sufficient?

Good for you but, hold on a minute. Regarding your comments on gasket replacement....why do you think this is necessary? Have you done a compression test yet? If not, I suggest that you do one before you consider doing anything else. You need to know where you are with this engine before you start investing money. The numbers will be revealing and will lead you in the right direction. If your numbers look good, there's no need to start pulling heads etc., and replacing gaskets. Do this first before you do anything else. If your numbers are good, consider pulling the engine. With the engine out, you'll have unlimited access to many critical parts. Change your belts first. This is critical. No matter what the PO said about their age, change them. They have a 5 year/25K life. Anything after that and you're living on borrowed time. Check your water pump impeller for play. If your impeller is the factory original brown Bakelite version, change it whether it has play or not as it's going to go bad soon. There's many other things that should be replaced, checked and cleaned. If your compression numbers are good, pull your carbs, pull your engine and re-post. You'll get more advice.
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SnoBrdr
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby SnoBrdr » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:07 pm

Placerville wrote:
raymanwaldo wrote:Ok. So I have downloaded and printed the service manual for the bike. I am going to build this bike right. I will be taking the carbs out and rebuild them. I am wondering since I am pulling the carbs out if I should go ahead and get a top end gasket kit, or should I just bite the bullet and do a complete motor gasket kit. Should I need a complete rebuild or should the top end cleaning and rebuild be sufficient?

Good for you but, hold on a minute. Regarding your comments on gasket replacement....why do you think this is necessary? Have you done a compression test yet? If not, I suggest that you do one before you consider doing anything else. You need to know where you are with this engine before you start investing money. The numbers will be revealing and will lead you in the right direction. If your numbers look good, there's no need to start pulling heads etc., and replacing gaskets. Do this first before you do anything else. If your numbers are good, consider pulling the engine. With the engine out, you'll have unlimited access to many critical parts. Change your belts first. This is critical. No matter what the PO said about their age, change them. They have a 5 year/25K life. Anything after that and you're living on borrowed time. Check your water pump impeller for play. If your impeller is the factory original brown Bakelite version, change it whether it has play or not as it's going to go bad soon. There's many other things that should be replaced, checked and cleaned. If your compression numbers are good, pull your carbs, pull your engine and re-post. You'll get more advice.


What years did Honda use the Bakelite water pumps?

Was it in all early GLs or did they switch back and forth during production ?

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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:09 pm

SnoBrdr wrote:What years did Honda use the Bakelite water pumps?

Was it in all early GLs or did they switch back and forth during production ?


Up until the final year (1983) of GL1100. The 1984 GL1200 had the aluminum vane pumps, and this pump was then specified as a replacement for earlier bikes.

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Placerville
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Placerville » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:50 pm

Original Honda Bakelite pump and Honda genuine replacement.



If you replace your pump, buy only from Honda. There's a knock-off of the one on the right floating around (Saber Cycle), don't buy it.
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby dingdong » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:34 am

Placerville has given you some excellent advice. I suggest however, since you are going to be spending some bucks on getting this bike running, that you leave the electric fuel pump in place if it is working. Lots of these old girls have been converted to an electric pump. Not a priority at this time. Perhaps later after you get the bike running properly. Good luck to you.

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raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:09 am

Thanks guys. The electric pump does work fine. I will leave that to the last thing I worry about. I am wondering if there is anyone out there with the Randakk carb video they would be willing to let me borrow or have. I would like to save that $40 to use for parts and repair on the bike. Please let me know thanks.

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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Placerville » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:31 am

I have one I'd let you borrow. I'm going away for a couple of days. I'll contact you upon my return.
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raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:32 pm

Thanks a lot. I will be doing a compression test on my cylinders tonight. I will post my findings later today.

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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Old Fogey » Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:43 pm

dingdong wrote:Placerville has given you some excellent advice. I suggest however, since you are going to be spending some bucks on getting this bike running, that you leave the electric fuel pump in place if it is working. Lots of these old girls have been converted to an electric pump. Not a priority at this time. Perhaps later after you get the bike running properly. Good luck to you.

Tom


I agree. I have a GL1200 pump on my 76 and there is a big difference in starting and in smoothing the idle. I would never go back to the mechanical one.

On the question of engine rebuilds. Do as Placerville suggests and get the numbers first. The old adage: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
These engines are not cheap to work on (a single head gasket alone will set you back $40) and seriously, unless you KNOW that there is something wrong inside, don't even think about a major rebuild unless you are prepared to shell out a load of money!
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raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:05 am

So last night I go to autozone to rent a set of comression guages and find out my wife has wipped out my account. So I am going to make her pay for the rental tonight. Last night I started to dissasemb the bike. Can I still do the compression test without the carbs on the bike? I figured that I could since the starter circut has no connections to the carbs. But I want to make sure so that I dont mess anything up on the bike.

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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Old Fogey » Fri Aug 29, 2014 6:23 am

Yes, no problem there. In fact it makes the testing easier if anything. What you are looking for is consistency between the cylinders; don't worry too much about the actual numbers unless they are really low. A lot depends on when the engine was last run. These engines do not like sitting still for long periods and we find many cases of low initial numbers coming right up once some miles have been put on it to free the rings off.

My advice for you with an engine that has not been run for a considerable time; rebuild the carbs first with a Randakk kit ( be prepared to have them off more than once if you don't have access to an ultrasonic cleaner to get them really clean), make sure that the fuel tank, filter and fuel lines are good, (I can supply you with a complete kit of air/vacuum lines for the carbs along with a set of braided fuel lines: http://www.wingovations.com/braided-fue ... 4579471070), refit them and find and fix any other problem (like poor or non-existent spark), change the timing belts and get some miles on the bike before you start worrying about anything else.
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raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:09 am

So I have been reading up on sync the carbs. I am wondering, would out of sync carbs cause my bike to run with the choke on and stall with the choke off? Should I try to sync the carbs before I do a rebuild?

raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:16 am

I do still plan to rebuild the carbs. But would be great if I could get the bike on the road for the rest of this season and do the rebuild during the fall and or winter...

SnoBrdr
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby SnoBrdr » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:24 am

raymanwaldo wrote:I do still plan to rebuild the carbs. But would be great if I could get the bike on the road for the rest of this season and do the rebuild during the fall and or winter...


I wouldn't. If the carbs need to be redone and you got it running, it would just run like a POS.

raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:32 am

I only assume the carbs need rebuilt since it wont idle without the choke on. If out of sync carbs could cause the issue than that may be my problem. I would still rebuild the carbs just because I know the bike is old and wouldnt hurt to have them rebuilt.

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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:05 am

So, the easy part id done. I have the carbs off the bike. I hope the internals are much better than the outside. I am surprised the bike would fire up and run at all. I am going to start the cleaning process (more than once I am sure) while waiting for the rebuild kit to arrive.
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:51 pm

As I was taking apart the carb to cylinder 1, I noticed this jet. Does this jeed to be replaced since the tine (for the lack of a better word) is broken?
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Old Fogey
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Old Fogey » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:00 pm

These get broken because rebuilders see a slot when they look down on the top and assume it's for a screwdriver. It's NOT!
You need the full length of the emulsion tube as it locates the jet that sits above it. You can get away with one 'ear', but what ever you do, do NOT try to straighten it up. You WILL snap it off and the tube then is scrap. These are not available from Honda (surprise, surprise!)
More info here: http://www.wingovations.com/gl1000-main ... 4579471123
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raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 pm

I also noticed that this carb was the dirtiest of the three I have cleaned so far. Still have cylinder three to clean. Would this have been a cause for so much build up in this carb?

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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby Old Fogey » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:30 pm

#2 & #4 are usually the nasty ones because of being left on the side stand with the carbs full of fuel, or worse, full of water!
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raymanwaldo
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Re: 78 GL1000 Issues

Postby raymanwaldo » Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:38 pm

Two and four were the first two I cleaned and they were too bad at all. Number one has been the worste so far with number three still to be torn down and cleaned.




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