GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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Grasshutperformance
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Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000

GL1000, oil pump pick up screen o ring or no?

Postby Grasshutperformance » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:10 pm



OK, I have 2 GL 1000 motors, and NEITHER one had on O ring on the oil pump pick up screen, where it enters the block. The cover had an O ring (or all the oil would leak on the side of the motor!), but where the pick up screen goes into the gallery leading to the pump there was no O ring on either motor. I find this hard to believe that it could be that way. The pump screen is able to rattle around, and the pump will suck in oil from around the screen rather than all through it. Does anyone know if they had an o ring, or did Honda hire a screw up for this part of the design? The O ring would have to be fairly fat, I estimate about .125 thick. My Clymer book is of no help, does not show this. Just wondering, I mean, this CAN'T be right! And if an O ring is used, the way it would be, just butted up against the end of the screen tube, is less than ideal, the chance of it working loose is very real. It really should be secured in a groove, OR it should have a dowel inside of it to secure it like they did for the water passages in the front cover.
Tom



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virgilmobile
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:15 am

I really don't recall a "O" ring there either.
Anything small enough to get past that area would also go through the screen too.
It purpose is to stop anything large enough to damage the pump.The oil filter gets the rest.

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Re: GL1000, oil pump pick up screen o ring or no?

Postby WingAdmin » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:31 am

There doesn't appear to be - just the holder and the strainer itself. Perhaps it depends on oil pressure to hold the strainer in place?

Oil strainer
Oil strainer

Grasshutperformance
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Re: GL1000, oil pump pick up screen o ring or no?

Postby Grasshutperformance » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:43 am

WingAdmin wrote:There doesn't appear to be - just the holder and the strainer itself. Perhaps it depends on oil pressure to hold the strainer in place?

Strainer.GIF

Thank you. I had a longer answer typed, but when I hit "submit" it said topic does not exist, so "thank you" ius the reply this time! LOL!
Tom

Grasshutperformance
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby Grasshutperformance » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:48 am

virgilmobile wrote:I really don't recall a "O" ring there either.
Anything small enough to get past that area would also go through the screen too.
It purpose is to stop anything large enough to damage the pump.The oil filter gets the rest.

I understand and agree, just I am a little (little? REALLY????) OCD, and this bugs me. Also in a car, this would be a BIG problem leading in many cases to loss of OP. Of course, in a car, that joint is WAY higher, and sometimes even out of the oil, so apples and oranges comparison, but still, built 4 or 5 thousand motors and come across one that is not what you would expect, and yeah, you look into it! Just like the max bearing clearance of .0015 on a car, even with a small journal like 1.800 that would be a minimum. and the .0007 minimum, that is a car engine that would be looking to lock up. Saw those numbers in Clymer, and checked a genuine Honda book to make sure it was not one of Clymer's many mistakes. It was not, they are that tight even with steel rods.
Thanks for the replay, much appreciated!
Tom

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virgilmobile
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:55 am

Yup.this is a whole different engineering tolerances.
Similar to a car but much tighter specs.
I'm not about to re-engineer the heart of a wing.They have a proven track record for longengivity.

Now,the electrical is a different story. :D

Grasshutperformance
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby Grasshutperformance » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:20 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Yup.this is a whole different engineering tolerances.
Similar to a car but much tighter specs.
I'm not about to re-engineer the heart of a wing.They have a proven track record for longengivity.

Now,the electrical is a different story. :D

LOL! Well, I am not re-engineering, but I will be using a Teflon like coating on the bearings, the oil pumps, the piston skirts, the cams and followers, the gears, the shift forks, etc. and then using a ceramic thermal barrier on the piston domes, the chambers, and the exhaust ports. Will help keep heat down, and power and efficiency up. Fortunately I can do that in my shop, even at that it is still pricey, but still hundreds less than paying swain or someone!
Tom

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virgilmobile
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:06 pm

If your going that far,don't forget to index the plugs.
Electronic ignition,electric fuel pump,turbo charger and nitro boost. :lol:

Grasshutperformance
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby Grasshutperformance » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:10 pm

virgilmobile wrote:If your going that far,don't forget to index the plugs.
Electronic ignition,electric fuel pump,turbo charger and nitro boost. :lol:

LOL! Ah, I am changing all lights to LED, so that I can add EFI. It has electronic ignition now, but it is mechanically controlled, so not ideal. All it knows is engine RPM, and sets the timing based on that alone. When I have my EFI on it, it will take into account, manifold pressure, air temp, engine temp, RPM, and throttle position to determine timing. My hot rod has around 40 degrees of advance at idle. Of course, as soon as you touch the throttle and put ANY load on it, it goes to 8 degrees. I think a full dresser GL1000 can get close to 50mpg on the freeway at about 60 or 65 mph. Not sure how close, but I will find out. The thing that is great about EFI is that you can tune for max power AND max mpg. Those are different parts of the map. Also the EFI I will be using has individual cylinder timing and fuel control, so say one chamber is a little smaller than the others and that hole has .3 more CR than the others, I can try giving it maybe 1% more fuel, and take .5 degrees timing out of that one hole. Lots you can do with computers, which is why lots of this is illegal in many racing classes! (not that some stuff has not been snuck in mind you! LOL!)
Tom

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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:32 am

Good luck with that project - there is a gentleman who installed an aftermarket EFI system on his GL1500, and has spent years tuning it trying to get it to run right (and he has experience with EFI programming and tuning). It's not easy.

Grasshutperformance
Posts: 42
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Re: GL1000 oil pick up screen O ring or no?

Postby Grasshutperformance » Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:49 am

WingAdmin wrote:Good luck with that project - there is a gentleman who installed an aftermarket EFI system on his GL1500, and has spent years tuning it trying to get it to run right (and he has experience with EFI programming and tuning). It's not easy.

I don't think it should be any worse than putting EFI and full computer engine management on my 1962 Chevy Corvair. Aftermarket is the only way to go. Trying to adapt some factory EFI designed for a different engine and counting on "learned memory mode" is not the way to go. I know lots of guys have done that with cars with engines that were close, but still not ideal.
The biggest problem with putting EFI on a GL1000 is the very limited amount of electricity. You can't add power, so you need to reduce load. I am eliminating all lights from the bike, and replacing them with LED's. Even down to the headlight and license plate light. There will not be one light bulb on the bike when I am done. And I want to keep my radio. I will put either wifi or Bluetooth on the EFI so I can have someone in a chase car tell me by phone (Bluetooth helmet) what is going on so I can give precise instructions as to changes I want to make to the tune up. A dyno sheet on a GL1000 motor would be helpful. Helps with that old "Torque rich HP lean" thing. If you know peak torque and peak HP numbers, and the curves, you can lay in the A/F ratios you want at those points. The most tuning will be with timing. Start with the stock curve under hard load, then start tuning at points for light load and cruise, and extrapolate from there. I figure 8 hours I should be done with tuning. The big thing now is I need to decide, do I want to add on an external crank trigger, (ie Ford 36:1 wheel) or do I want to drill the GM pattern into the crank and use the timing window for the pickup. I am leaning towards drilling the GM pattern into the crank. I plan on balancing the crank anyway. I know it is probably balanced pretty well from the factory, but I am a bit OCD. My dual disc Corvair clutch was 8 gram inches off as I got it. From ANY factory that would be GREAT> I balanced it to 0.3 gram inches. That is the equivalent of 1/3 of a dollar bill one inch from the centerline. WAY closer than it needs to be but, hey, I enjoy doing the best I can, and I did want to get it closer, but 0.3 was as good as I could do!
Tom




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