gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
  • Sponsored Links
hemimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1975 gl1000 goldwing strippy

gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby hemimike » Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:43 am



My name is Mike and I like to think I'm a pretty good wrench....I recently purchased a gl1000 1975 strippy online and the bike needed some work....I replaced the timing belts, flushed the coolant, reset the points and the bike ran well....until this week. I'm riding down the street and bam! I lose cylinder three and four in one second. Since then, when the bike is cold, all four cylinders work fine, I ride for three or four minutes and lose the third and fourth cylinder.... I thought,,,,,easy fix....I'm seeing a bad coil.....so I replace the coil and no difference....CRAP!!! lol So now I'm totally confused....it's a points bike with two sets of points, but there is no separate part that I can think of that could cause this...I'm stuck....The points look normal, and there is no separate resistor to blame....What is your diagnosis???? Thanks and God bless.
Mike Fischer



User avatar
WingAdmin
Site Admin
Posts: 17050
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Location: Strongsville, OH
Motorcycle: 2000 GL1500 SE
1982 GL1100A Aspencade (sold)
1989 PC800 (wife's!)
1998 XV250 Virago (sold)
2007 Aspen Sentry Trailer

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Oct 29, 2014 12:38 pm

You've replaced the coil, the only other item common to two cylinders is one of the points. You might also have a cracked plug, which is opening up under heat and shorting the spark for those two cylinders. You could also have a leaky spark plug wire - give it a spray mist of water in the dark and see if you see fireworks.

Plugs are cheap, I'd change out the plugs next and see if you get any difference.

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7660
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:29 pm

There are also 2 condensers...one for each point set.
Cylinders 3 and 4...the 2 rear ones ,right?

User avatar
Fred Camper
Posts: 1155
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:15 pm
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
Motorcycle: 1977 GL1000, 1976 LTD GL1000

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Fred Camper » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:08 pm

And let us learn what you find out.

User avatar
Phavas
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: Maine
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000 x 2, 1977 GL1000 x 3, 1981 GL1100 Sidecar, CB750 K8 CB 550 K8, 1954 Velocette MSS, 1937 Velocette KSS, 1932 Norton 16, 1946 AJS 18, 1948 Vincent Rapide, BMW R 100 RT1, BMW GS 80, BMW R60/7, 1936 Halcyon 50, 2003 Triumph Trophy 1200, 1994 Honda CB750 twin cam and still looking...

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Phavas » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:25 pm

Test the ballast resistor between the coils
Writing roughshod over the English language

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Old Fogey » Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:39 pm

There are basically two completely independent ignition circuits, one feeds #1 and #2 cylinder, the other #3 and #4. So if you are loosing #3 and #4 you only have one set of components to check. The ballast resistor is in circuit before the coils and would affect any/all/none of the cylinders.

Condenser/capacitor. Looks like a single component, but it's double ended. Either end can go dead without affecting the other. This is the most likely problem if the bike will run on all four but stops after a while.

Points. Make sure that the points are clean, set correctly and that the connecting wire is not able to short out on the casing. It happens many times!

Coil. If you have replaced the coil, we can assume it's not that, but what about the connections? Have you checked for power to the coil when the cylinders go dead? Check the ground side as well.
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

hemimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1975 gl1000 goldwing strippy

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby hemimike » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:34 pm

This is an update for all of you terrific gl gurus that helped me with this dilemma! SHE IS RUNNING BACK AT NORMAL...!!! woohoo!!! lol
Thanks for all your input. I found a new set of condensers on ebay for nine bucks and the bike runs normally again.....but I turned off the lights in my garage and there's a light show going on around my plug wires....so that's the next step...think I'll get a set of accell wires for a four cylinder car and throw them on,,,bright yellow with red booties! woohoo!!! then I'll go smoke me some harley butt!!! lol Next challenge is a new water pump, new idler pulleys for the timing belts,,,,these whine a lot.....and four rebuild kits for the carbs, and I should be up to snuff.....btw,,,,,if I use a dwell meter to set my points better, what reading should I look for?
Thanks again and I'll see you on the road!
Keep the rubber side down!
Mike Fischer
hemimike-Scottsdale on facebook.

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7660
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Nov 03, 2014 9:50 pm

I couldn't find a dwell angle meter that could show both points.Its so much easier to do the "split the difference method"Glad the caps fixed it.

motorcyclemedic
Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:52 am
Location: Anchorage alaska
Motorcycle: 1975 GL1000, 1985 GL1200A Aspy

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby motorcyclemedic » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:31 am

You can also adjust your point gap a bit to get the timing perfect-- check out Randakks tech tips on his web site- also his carb kits and rebuild instructions are the best -- Dennis in Anchorage

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7660
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby virgilmobile » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:12 pm

motorcyclemedic wrote:You can also adjust your point gap a bit to get the timing perfect-- check out Randakks tech tips on his web site- also his carb kits and rebuild instructions are the best -- Dennis in Anchorage


This is true..if you change either point gap,even just a little,it changes the timing for that cylinder pair.
But doing this also changes the dwell angle ...The amount of cam rotation(angle) that the points are closed(dwell time)...
A good ignition system with dual points has a balanced dwell time and firing mark.
The idea is to have both firing at there "F" mark AND have the same end gap gap...
My first attempt at setting the points went easy...both fired exactly on their "F" marks but a re-measurment of the point gap showed one at 0.012" and the other at 0.016"....
If I adjusted the "F2" points to 0.012" the timing was off...
What I needed was to split the difference...or balance them.
I split the difference of the point gap and set the first one up to 0.014" and reset the timing for "F1" by moving the base plate...lo and behold...adjusting the "F2" points on the mark,it had the same point gap and then the equal dwell angle was the same.

This may not be for everybody to do...Sometimes close is good enough to get by....
For me any my gl1000,every little thing I could do to improve the performance..I did....what a rocket when I was done. :D

User avatar
Phavas
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: Maine
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000 x 2, 1977 GL1000 x 3, 1981 GL1100 Sidecar, CB750 K8 CB 550 K8, 1954 Velocette MSS, 1937 Velocette KSS, 1932 Norton 16, 1946 AJS 18, 1948 Vincent Rapide, BMW R 100 RT1, BMW GS 80, BMW R60/7, 1936 Halcyon 50, 2003 Triumph Trophy 1200, 1994 Honda CB750 twin cam and still looking...

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Phavas » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:58 pm

The following is a description of split the difference timing I found somewhere. I read and re read it, finally applying the lesson too the bike. It works very well. Essentially the trick is to set the first set of points at 016 at about 3 degrees btdc, then adjust the second set of point to make the unit fire at the same time on the second set.
The second set of points will not have the same gap but this doesn't matter as long as the engine fires in a balanced fashion. I claim no responsibility for this text but can attest that if you follow it you're bike will run nearly perfecty.

Cheers,
Zaphod



When you set the static timing for cylinder #1 and #2 relative to the F mark for "1" on the flywheel by adjusting the main breaker point base plate, you need to be aware that Cylinder #1 (compression stroke) will fire (just as the 1-2 points open) about 2 - 5 degrees BEFORE Cylinder #2 will fire when the same set of points open the very next time (180 degrees of camshaft rotation and 360 degrees of crankshaft rotation). By carefully observing your test light, ohmmeter or buzz box while rotating the engine through several revolutions you will be able to determine the degree of variation you have on cylinder #1 and #2 timing. Here's how to judge: 5 degrees of timing equals about ½ inch on the flywheel...5 degrees is also the distance between the "F" and "T" marks. Move the base plate so that you "split the difference"…one cylinder will be a little early and one will be a little late. You don't really need to keep track of which cylinder is early or late, just make certain that the "early" cylinder never fires more than 2 degrees before the F mark. If you just go "by the book" and don't follow the procedure described above, you can end up with 1 cylinder up to 5 degrees earlier than the F mark. This causes the low speed knock off the front of the engine many GL1000's exhibit. It's hard to recognize because it's actually a "spark knock" of an engine under no load, but only affecting 1 out of 4 cylinders. "Splitting the difference" is not a perfect solution, but it gives you an acceptable compromise with much smoother idle manners.

When you're done, set the timing for #3 and #4 relative to the F mark for "2" on the flywheel by moving the points sub-base (there shouldn't be any appreciable difference induced by "wobble" on this set).

Here's the second problem you can have, even when you carefully follow the workshop manual. The spec for breaker point gap is listed as 0.012" - 0.016." Without coaching, most people will aim for the middle (0.014") as a hedge against their less than expert skill with a feeler gauge. Again, I'll skip the theory, but if your point gap is on the smaller end of this range you can end up with a problem called "dwell overlap." Dwell is defined as the duration of time that the points are closed and the primary winding of the coil is energized.

Basically, you want to make sure that you never have both sets of points closed at the same time. If you do, the non-isolated nature of this design will allow a voltage drop that can dissipate the saturation of the second coil and cause a weak, unreliable spark.

Don't worry about the electrical engineering theory. Here's what you do. Aim for the "high" end and set the breaker gap at 0.016". Next set the timing per the special instructions above. Then using your test light, ohmmeter or buzz box rotate the engine through several revolutions (for each set of points). As detailed above, the points for #1 and #2 should OPEN at +/- the F mark for "1" on the flywheel. Now make an additional check to determine that they do not CLOSE until AFTER the F mark for "2." If they close early, you need more point gap which results in less dwell. Each increase of 0.001" point gap reduces dwell by about 4 degrees. Note, each time you adjust the point gap, you MUST reset the timing!

Once you're happy with #1 and #2, repeat the procedure with #3 and #4. In this case, the points for #3 and #4 should OPEN exactly at the F mark for "2" on the flywheel AND they should not CLOSE until AFTER the F mark for "1."

This all sounds complicated and I've described it in several steps and in more detail than I intended. In practice, it's quite simple. Here's all you need to do in a step-by-step summarized sequence:

1. Set the point gap for #1 and #2 at the max. end of the range (0.016")

2. Set the timing for #1 and #2 using the "split the difference" method relative to the F mark for "1"…early cylinder no more than 2 degrees before F mark for "1"

3. Check that points for #1 and #2 CLOSE after the F mark for "2"…if not increase gap, re-time and repeat this test

4. Set the point gap for #3 and #4 at the max end of the range (0.016")

5. Set the timing for #3 and #4 relative to the F mark for "2"

6. Check that points for #3 and #4 CLOSE after the F mark for "1"...if not increase gap, re-time and repeat this test

Once you get everything set correctly, minor maintenance is reduced to periodic cleaning and re-gapping of the points to the max. value. You don't have to futz with timing every time.

Point of clarification which confuses some people: The "1" and "2" marks on the flywheel do not refer to cylinder 1 and cylinder 2. Rather the "1" on the flywheel [and it's associated T (Top Dead Center), F (static ignition fire), and Full Advance marks] refer to all of these events for both cylinder 1 AND 2 and the associated set of ignition points for cylinders 1 and 2. The events are phased 360 degrees apart.

Likewise, the "2" on the flywheel [and it's associated T (Top Dead Center), F (static ignition fire), and Full Advance marks] refer to all of these events for both cylinder 3 AND 4 and the associated set of ignition points for cylinders 3 and 4.

Odd observation. I've worked on a few bikes that had the timing variation on cylinder #3 and #4 instead of the expected timing variation on cylinder #1 and #2. I have no explanation for this. The cure was the same…split the difference in timing on #3 and #4 with the early cylinder no more the 2 degrees before the "F" mark.

Another tip:

Contrary to some manuals, ignore the punch mark(s) on the eccentric breaker cam when setting points gap. They were not created very precisely by the factory and amount to an unnecessary distraction. Just aim for the highest point on the cam lobes and then set the points.

Final tip:

To avoid the unnecessary distraction of a test lamp that alternates between bright, dim and off - put a small piece of paper (like a section of business card) between the points on the side you are not adjusting. This will allow your test lamp to have only 2 modes: bright and off. Without this step, the activation of the "other" coil will make your test lamp dim in a distracting fashion.
Writing roughshod over the English language

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Old Fogey » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:58 pm

hemimike wrote:if I use a dwell meter to set my points better, what reading should I look for?
Thanks again and I'll see you on the road!
Mike Fischer
hemimike-Scottsdale on facebook.


I can't find the info; buried amongst the mountain of other info, but I read that the dwell should be 22.5 degrees.
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

hemimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1975 gl1000 goldwing strippy

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby hemimike » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:21 pm

OK, I'm at the end of my rope....lol
I have replaced one coil, tested both and have spark. I have replaced the condenser pack. I have regapped plugs, points. I am still running the old coil wires. I have backflushed the gas system from the pump to the tank, it was full of rust behind the fuel filter, but I have some fuel pressure and a new inline filter. When I start and run the bike after sitting, it runs like a champ. In three minutes I lose two cylinders, and now a third shortly after. I am out of ideas. The only parts still original are the points, which are working fine as far as I can see, and the ballast resistor.
I don't know what to do next. If the carbs were bad, it wouldn't run good after sitting. If the fuel system wasn't working it wouldn't run good after sitting. I am poor and can't afford to take it to a shop. It's my only transpo. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
God bless.
Mike

User avatar
virgilmobile
Posts: 7660
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:39 pm
Location: Denham Springs,La.
Motorcycle: 1988 GL1500 I
Previously owned
78 GL1000
81 GL1100
82 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 I
83 GL1100 standard
84 GL 1200 I

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:48 pm

This is a hazardous check..beware.
Get the bike where it quits...shut it down...turn off the fuel...
Open the drain screw on each carb.There should be about a shot glass drain from each one.
Use whatever means necessary to safety the gas.
Find out if its spark or fuel related.
It sounds like its running out of fuel now that you mention that a third cylinder fails.

Again raw gas...no spark...be especially careful.Fire extinguisher handy etc.etc.

hemimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1975 gl1000 goldwing strippy

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby hemimike » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:05 pm

feels that way to me as well....I'll do it in the morning and repost....Thanks for your time and trouble....
Mike Fischer

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Old Fogey » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:29 pm

hemimike wrote:OK, I'm at the end of my rope....lol
When I start and run the bike after sitting, it runs like a champ. In three minutes I lose two cylinders, and now a third shortly after. I am out of ideas. The only parts still original are the points, which are working fine as far as I can see, and the ballast resistor.
I don't know what to do next. If the carbs were bad, it wouldn't run good after sitting. If the fuel system wasn't working it wouldn't run good after sitting.
Mike


Mike, you are going to have to pull the carbs. Reading back through your posts you mention the filter being filled with rust.. Trust me, the tiny filters behind the float valve seats will be choked up too.. They will probably allow enough fuel to get the float bowls filled at first but once you get on the throttle you are emptying the bowls and running out of gas.
You might also have a float level issue going on there too.
Now, you also mention getting four carb rebuild kits. I'm not sure what you had in mind, but again I ask you to believe me.. the ONLY kit to get is the one from Randakk. Yes, it's pricey but you should only be looking to do the job once. There is no comparison between his kits with the Viton seals, and others. If you are as poor as you say, you don't want to have to do the job again when the other kits fail.
I am rebuilding carbs for customers all the time and will not use anything else. I don't get come-backs.
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

User avatar
Phavas
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: Maine
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000 x 2, 1977 GL1000 x 3, 1981 GL1100 Sidecar, CB750 K8 CB 550 K8, 1954 Velocette MSS, 1937 Velocette KSS, 1932 Norton 16, 1946 AJS 18, 1948 Vincent Rapide, BMW R 100 RT1, BMW GS 80, BMW R60/7, 1936 Halcyon 50, 2003 Triumph Trophy 1200, 1994 Honda CB750 twin cam and still looking...

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Phavas » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:29 am

Agree: you're running out of gas. Probably the low speed ciruit if the float bowls are fillling. Check the filters above the needle valves. When you pull the kidney shaped cover under the slide dome off, remamber the jets are two sizes there and the larger one goes toward the outside I think. They will fit either way. Blow the circuit clean. I suppose the Randakk kits are good, never used them but I've not had any trouble with aftermarket ones and I run 6 GL's. Viton seals or not, they're way over priced.
Don't bother changing jets if the original ones clean up. By the way, getting the carbs off isn't as daunting as it looks: take of the air filter ect... and remove the elbows and disconnect the fuel line. Slide the carb set to the left to remove the throttle cables, then remove the choke cable. Reach down through the shelter with a long phillips and remove the domes and slides by slideing the carb rack back and forth. Keep the domes and slides matched. The bodies will slide out to the right easily. Takes about 20 minutes.
While they're out, clean out the air mixture valve on top of the plenum. I use acetone and carb cleaner in tandem on the naked bodies. I know there is a whole school of "Boil them in Unicorn tears" but I soak them in soapy water and clean them out after they've gotten good and soggy. Remember to blow LOW PRESSURE air into the dome tubes to check the air bleed, and make sure each slide is free in its bore. Check the plastic caps for cracks. I fill them with Super Glue or clear epoxy. A piece of frayed electrical wire makes a good jet cleaning tool. Use a magnifying glass to check jet sizes and map where they cam out on a piece of paper to make sure whoever was in there first got them back together correctly.

When you reconnect the elbows after putting the cables back on etc, lube the rubbers with dishwashing detergent. Heat them with an air gun if necessary but, as they're keyed, try not to turn them too much cold.

Good luck,

Cheers,
Zaphod
Writing roughshod over the English language

hemimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1975 gl1000 goldwing strippy

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby hemimike » Sat Nov 08, 2014 8:09 pm

OK so now I have the carbs off the engine in one piece. The first carb I opened up was filthy, and I am having trouble figuring out where the fuel lines come from and where they go. I can't find a cut away diagram of the air box with the fuel lines in it. I found the kidney shaped gasket and jets, but no small screen in the fuel inlet. I never saw a jet in a fuel inlet elbow before today either, very different! I believe the fuel line from the fuel pump flows to the air box fuel rails, and then distributes through individual lines to each carb. The problem I have is with all four fuel hoses removed, NO AIR will travel through the rails. So I believe my problem is in the air box fuel rails....as well as dirty carbs.....but mainly at the fuel rails....Can I split the air box at the gaskets and put them back together without doing major damage? If so my plan would be to split the air box and clean out the fuel rails, although this means separating all the carbs and having parts all over the place.....lol no pressure!!!! lol Can I leave it all together and get aggressive with air pressure and leave the carbs attached without damaging anything? I have no way of knowing....but I can't blow on the fuel pump end of the plenum and get air travel...and fifty pounds of air pressure does nothing. Any thoughts????
God bless,
Mike Fischer

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Old Fogey » Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:13 pm

hemimike wrote:OK so now I have the carbs off the engine in one piece. The first carb I opened up was filthy, and I am having trouble figuring out where the fuel lines come from and where they go. I can't find a cut away diagram of the air box with the fuel lines in it. I found the kidney shaped gasket and jets,
but no small screen in the fuel inlet. The filters are under each of the float valve seats. You need to remove the screw and the U shaped clip holding each seat and pull the seat out. Renew the O ring. Be careful not to lose or damage the screen. They are not available on their own, only with OEM Honda float valves kits. Expensive![/color
[color=#0000FF]

You have this completely wrong:

I never saw a jet in a fuel inlet elbow before today either, very different! [color=#0000FF]These lines are pilot air feeds, not fuel.[/color]
I believe the fuel line from the fuel pump flows to the air box fuel rails, and then distributes through individual lines to each carb. Nope! Fuel is distributed to each carb through passages in the plenum..

The problem I have is with all four fuel hoses removed, NO AIR will travel through the rails. No, it won't.

So I believe my problem is in the air box fuel rails....as well as dirty carbs.....but mainly at the fuel rails....No, it isn't!
Can I split the air box at the gaskets and put them back together without doing major damage? If so my plan would be to split the air box and clean out the fuel rails, although this means separating all the carbs and having parts all over the place.....lol no pressure!!!!
If you split the plenum you WILL need a new plenum gasket. If you take the carbs off the plenum, you WILL need new carb-to-plenum O rings and new fuel passage O rings

Can I leave it all together and get aggressive with air pressure and leave the carbs attached without damaging anything?
Unless you have cleaned the carbs thoroughly before doing this, there is as much chance of blowing muck into the passages as there is of blowing it out!

I have no way of knowing....but I can't blow on the fuel pump end of the plenum and get air travel...and fifty pounds of air pressure does nothing. By now you will have realised that is correct unless the float bowls are off and the floats and float needles removed.

Any thoughts????
God bless,
Mike Fischer


Mike, These carbs are not the easiest to work on, especially if you have no knowledge of the way they work.
There is no shortcuts on these. Trust me, the job has to be done right or you will be forever pulling them off the bike to fix them yet again. The idle or slow running passages are very small, the emulsion tubes are easily damaged. The throttle slides and caps have to be scrupulously clean to allow the slide to..er..slide.
Each carb needs to be completely stripped to get the passages clean and to check that all the parts are in good order. All the O rings will need to be renewed as a matter of course.
Float level is also of critical importance.

Before you do anything else, go and read everything that Randakk says on his site about the carbs:
http://www.randakksblog.com/tech-tips/honda-gl1000/
In particular, on that page check out the diagram of where the various seals go. That might help you see how the things work.
It might pay you to buy his carb rebuild video.

Also read this:
http://www.wingovations.com/gl1000-main ... 4579471123
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

User avatar
Phavas
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: Maine
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000 x 2, 1977 GL1000 x 3, 1981 GL1100 Sidecar, CB750 K8 CB 550 K8, 1954 Velocette MSS, 1937 Velocette KSS, 1932 Norton 16, 1946 AJS 18, 1948 Vincent Rapide, BMW R 100 RT1, BMW GS 80, BMW R60/7, 1936 Halcyon 50, 2003 Triumph Trophy 1200, 1994 Honda CB750 twin cam and still looking...

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Phavas » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:15 pm

Old fogey gave you some good advice - especially on the philosophy of how the carb unit works.
Some operational caveats: Be careful when you remove the float pins. They bind to the posts and tapping them can break the posts off (ask me how I know). You will have to remove both jets under the weird looking metal holder and they will not want to come out if they're dirty. You will probably need new O rings. These jets are why float height is critical. They aspirate directly into the venturi and fuel circuit. One annoying little aspect of these carbs is the little aluminum "Puck" that will probably fall out and get lost under the bench. Ensure these are all there, and that the cuel circuit underneath them is clear. You can use high pressure air on the carb body.

When you've removed the floats, remove the screw and yoke holding the needle valve down, and remove the valve. That's where the filter is. Check the needle and seat: If there's a shiny ring on the needle it may not seal anymore. Also check the little spring loaded pin coming out of the needle. It must operate or float height will be impossible to adjust. If one of the needle pins is stuck it will starve or flood the bowl: the springs are little shock absorbers that keep the floats from constantly transmitting their movement to the needle valve.

Float height is adjust with the carb upside down and measured from the top of the little ridge on the carb body. I think its 21 mm

In the idle mixture circuit (brass elbow with a jet in it) make sure the jet is clean and that all are the same size. These jets regulate AIR supply so if your bike stumbles on off-idle acceleration after re-assembly, you can enrichen the idle mixture by putting in SMALLER jets. You can do this when the carbs are back on the bike with the aid of long needle nosed pliers and the surgical insertion of two more joints in each thumb.

Again, do not forget the air mixture diaphragm on the top of the plenum. It has a little O ring that wll try to leap out and go under your bench to find the Puck if you're not careful The rubber in this unit gets hard and the spring corrodes. Replacements are available.

Check the model number of each carb to make sure no one has mixed and matched. They al llook alike but jet and venturi sizes changed over the model years. Additionally, look into the venturi from the intake side and note if there are bleed holes near the throttle pivots. If there are, clean them with a piece of brass wire; they need to be clear.
When you remove the idle mixture screws count the parts that come out. There should be a pointed screw, a spring, a washer, and a rubber O ring - in that order. The O rings doesn't like to come out and frequently I have had carbs with 2 or more crammed in there by unsuspecting re-builders. The clue is the length of the idle screw sticking out when it is seated home. Longer means there's probably something else in there.

These carbs love to leak air: If your idle is fast and you can't get it down, look to the plenum, the rubbers, or the O rings in the manifolds. Also don't try to outfox the air filter unless you're in love with trial-and-error jet sizing. The carbs, plenum, airbox and cleaner all act in unison; many suicidal Goldwing owners were found to have modified this in an attempt to make the carbs "breath better".

Cheers,
Zaphod
Writing roughshod over the English language

hemimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 11:33 am
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Motorcycle: 1975 gl1000 goldwing strippy

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby hemimike » Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:58 pm

yes I got it,,,,but why are there jets in the vacuum lines? lol
Now I understand I have to keep the air box together. I also got air to travel to all four carbs when held right side up so the needle valves were open....I also found two allen head screws on one float bowl. I also found one bowl with two stripped screws. Do you have any great ideas about how to get the needle valve seats to come out of the carb without gouging the inside of the seat? I think the horseshoe clamp rusted the seat into the carb so I can't get it out....and It's almost impossible to get the floats out without doing damage to the hinge uprights. I'm scared to death to take em out....so I just flip em over in the carb and remove the needle valve....lol gotta be careful of the rubber tit on the end though....so now I looked at the four short rubber tubes that deliver air and all of them are badly cracked at the ends....that could have been my problem....lol It's such a mess in here anything could be the problem...or nothing at all....it could still be electrical....but I'll take the carb back apart tomorrow and force the seat out of the carb, and look at the screen. Thanks for all your patience and help...but I think I'm fubared
lol

User avatar
Phavas
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: Maine
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000 x 2, 1977 GL1000 x 3, 1981 GL1100 Sidecar, CB750 K8 CB 550 K8, 1954 Velocette MSS, 1937 Velocette KSS, 1932 Norton 16, 1946 AJS 18, 1948 Vincent Rapide, BMW R 100 RT1, BMW GS 80, BMW R60/7, 1936 Halcyon 50, 2003 Triumph Trophy 1200, 1994 Honda CB750 twin cam and still looking...

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Phavas » Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:59 am

The four short rubber tubes are part of the idle circuit. Renew them with fuel hose.
The needle valve will come out once the yoke is removed.
It sounds like your bike sat with water in the fuel for a long time and the carbs may not be salvageable. There is a pin press you can get on Ebay that will press out the float pins. I use a very thin punch and a jig I designed to hold the post.

You can brace the posts with a needle nose vice grip adjusted just snug at the base with the carb upside down in a soft-jawed vice.
I would recommend you boil the carbs for a couple of hours in soft water (If you can't get distilled) then let them soak in solvent. Your seals are all going to be poo anyway, so it doesn't matter if you use carb cleaner (I use GUM OUT) or brake cleaner or acetone afterward to try and get the lacquer off. If you get the floats off and undo the yoke, the valve can be pulled out from the top using a pair of pliers. I use an air gun to heat the body and get everything to expand if it's dry, otherwise try to dismantle them warm when they've been taken off the boil.

If the inside of your float bowls look like pebbled aluminum, they are probably too far gone. Rescue the brass and steel parts and look for another rack of carbs of the same generation. They can be had from $50 on up to $500 completely rebuilt.
Alternately you can manufacture a 4 into 1 manifold from PVC tubing and buy a PICT 34 carb off an old Volkswagen and convert the beast to a single carb. Many do this. Its a cheap efficient way to get on the road.


The following is a direct cut and paste from the Naked Goldwign site on what to do:


GOAL: To make a single carb manifold for the 1100 that anyone, even the mechanically challenged, can build easily, with parts that are readily available and cheap.

Material: Sch 40 Pvc Fittings 1" size---4 each 45 elbows (70 cents per)--2 each side outlet tees($2 per)--2 each 90 elbows(50 cents per)--1 each reg tee(65 cents per)--1 each 1" Pvc Conduit 45 degree Sweep Elbow($4 per)--1 ft 1" Reg PVC Pipe not sch 40(40 cents)-- 4 each hose clamps--1 each Polaris rubber carb mount(e-bay, ($10-$20)--VW Carb pict 34-3(ebay new $100 used ??)

Modifications:
A. 4 each 45 elbows, you must cut less than a quarter of an inch off the ends that fits against the side outlet tee(to obtain correct width so end of 45s will fit inside existing rubber manifolds, you must use the new hose clamps to clamp rubber manifold boots onto fittings.
B. 90 elbows, cut half the glue socket off the end that mounts on top of side outlet tee. (to lower height of manifold)-(you also could cut half of glue socket off the top of side outlet tee, if you desire to lower it even more).
C. Cut the 45 conduit sweep ell for the two pieces that attach from the middle tee to the ells at each end. The section for each side will be about 2", the cut needs to begin about 1" after the bend begins and go back 2" toward straight end. (this will give you correct angle so every thing will slide into rubber boots perfectly)
D. Polaris Carb boot, depending on which carb you use, you will have to enlarge two mounting holes for carb to fit into flange, a small amount of rubber will also have to be removed, so carb linkage does not rub.
E. I used 1" regular Pvc to make the small pieces to butt join the fittings, I used it so the inside diameter would be larger, and to do away with any ridges inside manifold.
F. The only throttle cable used is the pull cable, and I used a Mending Tee plate attached to drain hole on VW Carb with an eye bolt attached to mending plate to attach throttle cable. (This added another $4)

Cheers,

Zaphod
Writing roughshod over the English language

User avatar
pistolpete
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:39 am
Location: Knoxville, TN
Motorcycle: GL1000, GL1100

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby pistolpete » Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:46 am

hemimike,

Send the set to us and we will completely rebuild them, engine sync/bal and send them back for the price of the Randakks kit and return shipping.
About $250.00. If this appeals to you email me at petesgl@comcast.net.

Pistol Pete

Old Fogey
Posts: 724
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 am
Location: Glasgow Scotland
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000
1979 GL1000
Contact:

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Old Fogey » Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:19 am

pistolpete wrote:hemimike,

Send the set to us and we will completely rebuild them, engine sync/bal and send them back for the price of the Randakks kit and return shipping.
About $250.00. If this appeals to you email me at petesgl@comcast.net.

Pistol Pete


Mike,
You just ain't going to get a better offer than that! Jump on it before Pete realises his price typo! :D
I'm deadly serious; go for it. Pete and his daughter Moose are top rebuilders of these carbs.

If you still want to have a go yourself, take in all the good advice, do the research first before you attack them any more.
If your tubes are toast I can supply you with a kit to replace them (the four short tubes are AIR supply tubes, not vacuum. The longer thin one to the air cut-off valve IS a vacuum tube), or a complete kit of these tubes plus OEM style fuel lines.
http://www.wingovations.com/air-tube-kits/4579471069
http://www.wingovations.com/braided-fue ... 4579471070
Image Image

'Impossible' is just a level of difficulty! The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask first!

User avatar
Phavas
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:02 pm
Location: Maine
Motorcycle: 1976 GL1000 x 2, 1977 GL1000 x 3, 1981 GL1100 Sidecar, CB750 K8 CB 550 K8, 1954 Velocette MSS, 1937 Velocette KSS, 1932 Norton 16, 1946 AJS 18, 1948 Vincent Rapide, BMW R 100 RT1, BMW GS 80, BMW R60/7, 1936 Halcyon 50, 2003 Triumph Trophy 1200, 1994 Honda CB750 twin cam and still looking...

Re: gl 1000 1975 HELP!!!!

Postby Phavas » Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:17 pm

I'd do this if I were you. I might send a rack out myself

Cheers,
Zaphod


Writing roughshod over the English language


Return to “GL1000 Information & Questions”




Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AhrefsBot [Bot] and 1 guest