Alternator Rattle/Noise


Information and questions on GL1000 Goldwings (1975-1979)
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olchris
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Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:31 am



Hi all, first post for me here... Very new to my newly acquired 7/75 GL1000 project... I have read through many posts and answered some of my question already, though many more will come up...
My new to me GL1000 was dragged out the corner of a PO's shed and once the old fuel was drained and flushed it eventually started but run very rough... Since have found a crappy head gasket LHS so pulled RHS also and now waiting and "researching" Goldwings..
This project will eventually be completely stripped down to frame for a complete refurbishment.. (spare rolling bike included for bits)

I found a site elsewhere with "exploded" mechanical views and noticed there are Rubber Dampers 13436- 371-000 in the alternator that i guess would "harden" or wear.... Could this be the source of the rattle in the alternator area????.

The motor will eventually come out for "makeup" once i have it running right and feel confident that the engine and gearbox's general condition is OK. Hopefully not needing to split C/Case.. Though if i have too i will...

I have'nt ridden it yet to source other real issues if any, so whilst i wait for top set i will try to get some of my questions answered..

I would love to hear of any "tips" as to what i should look for and what i "must do" while engine is out prior to stripping.. Basically the inherent faults from factory that have been overcome by members.... That is if there are any factory faults!!!

Second question, Frame and comp plate have same numbers GLI 10167XX and the engine is GL 1E 10169xx.... Is the engine number and frame/comp number suppose to be the same ??? i.e. 3 matching numbers... What are the thoughts as to whether this is the original engine.. I was told it was original and licence papers also verify numbers.. But what do the experts say??.

Thanks All

I would post a pic or two, but photobucket and local internet connections are very very disgracefully slow for me at the moment.. I assuming its just "that time of the year"........ maybe...



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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:53 pm

If you're sure about the localization of the rattling noise, then that could definitely be the cause. And it's a relatively cheap fix.

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aussiegold
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby aussiegold » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:04 pm

Welcome from Mildura . dont know about the noise , but i do know that frame/vin numbers and engine numbers never match. the same on any Honda. these old beasts are a much under rated bike.
i have split several engines now and it aint that hard. bit time consuming , cleaning everything but they are 40 years old this month .. :D
my engine rebuild on youtube here



olchris
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:18 pm

aussiegold wrote:Welcome from Mildura . dont know about the noise , but i do know that frame/vin numbers and engine numbers never match. the same on any Honda. these old beasts are a much under rated bike.
i have split several engines now and it aint that hard. bit time consuming , cleaning everything but they are 40 years old this month .. :D
my engine rebuild on youtube here




Great video you have made there...Thanks. I will find part 2 and watch that also.... Hopefully i wont need to split cases this time around. I do have a 99% complete bike as a spare which hasnt run for decades that i look at out the corner of my eye and consider its full rebuild (motor) when current project is complete..
I live in Mandurah WA.. Bit far for a quick visit..

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Fred Camper
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Fred Camper » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:07 pm

You should consider just repairing what you need to get it running, and not going much further until you know more. Best to have a runner before considering a restoration. I think you will need to rebuild the carbs using Randakks video as old gas is bad on these excellent carbs. But do consider avoiding teardown until she runs great.

olchris
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:26 pm

Fred Camper wrote:You should consider just repairing what you need to get it running, and not going much further until you know more. Best to have a runner before considering a restoration. I think you will need to rebuild the carbs using Randakks video as old gas is bad on these excellent carbs. But do consider avoiding teardown until she runs great.


Those are my intentions exactly Fred!... Suprising what i have found just sorting the electrics while waiting for top set... Think im getting calouses on my elbows from www reasearch on Gl's...

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:30 am

I have found another oddity that somebody may be able to help me with... Finally got the rear park light to function correctly by tracing back to switchblock and resoldered a wire. Whilst in there i found these two "solid yellow" wires were also loose/unsoldered... I search all the wiring diag's that were relevent to a 75 GL and could not find there use .. They do not get powered of key operation nor when other switches are flicked but they would pick up power from the little brass slide in the switch.. I think there was a "bridge" between the 2 brass slide to share power, but there is clearly a burn on the plastic holder where i think it has fused..

All lights,indicators, horn are working and stop switch functions via multimeter... So what do i need those two solid yellow for ??????....


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aussiegold
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby aussiegold » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:27 am

those two yellow wires ( its really one ) come from the charge system. when the headlight is turned off, the connection is broken .so, the charge rate is reduced. when the headlight is on, the connection is joined , giving full charge.
on all three of mine , i have intercepted that yellow wire behind the left hand shelter and soldered them together there. this does two things,
1 gives full charge all the time. ( i always have the headlight on anyway )
2 reduces the amount of current running through the switch block. ( they are made from unobtainium )

another fix to consider is to wire in a relay to run the headlight. easy to do, so the headlight switch just turns the relay on.
that reduces the current running through that switch even more.

olchris
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:34 am

aussiegold wrote:those two yellow wires ( its really one ) come from the charge system. when the headlight is turned off, the connection is broken .so, the charge rate is reduced. when the headlight is on, the connection is joined , giving full charge.
on all three of mine , i have intercepted that yellow wire behind the left hand shelter and soldered them together there. this does two things,
1 gives full charge all the time. ( i always have the headlight on anyway )
2 reduces the amount of current running through the switch block. ( they are made from unobtainium )

another fix to consider is to wire in a relay to run the headlight. easy to do, so the headlight switch just turns the relay on.
that reduces the current running through that switch even more.


Thanks for the prompt reply.. As im new to wings, and its termonology "left hand shelter" is mysterious to me??? where/what is that... And yes a relay in the headlight circuit would be a good thing... Both of my switch block are very well worn and a bit bastardized so might look at finding some Newer or later model ones that have same functions.....

ahhh h... Shelter , you mean side cover at the connections into main harness... ???

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aussiegold
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1976 LTD cleverly diguised as an 81 interstate
1976 LTD.. a feller with 2 LTD's can't be all bad.....

Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby aussiegold » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:45 am

sorry mate, i call the sides of the false tank that hinge down, shelters. i think Honda call it a shelter.
i have been looking at cb400 switch gear. look like they might be able to be wired in.
if you go the Randakk way for carb kits, i have the dvd you can borrow. would not be too hard to put it in another format even. see how you go. theres a lot of good info on the web, this forum and NGW is good also. classicgoldwings is also very good. it's all about sharing the info on these old machines to keep them on the road. just keep the BS filter switched on to high and get the credit card warmed up. it can get a bit pricey.... :lol:

Old Fogey
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Old Fogey » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:54 pm

olchris wrote:I found a site elsewhere with "exploded" mechanical views and noticed there are Rubber Dampers 13436- 371-000 in the alternator that i guess would "harden" or wear.... Could this be the source of the rattle in the alternator area????.

Yes it could be. The rubbers become as hard as a rock (literally, you can shatter them like rock) due to the heat. The rebuild isn't too difficult; finding the new rubbers is!
Check this out: http://www.wingovations.com/alternator- ... 4579471110



The motor will eventually come out for "makeup" once i have it running right and feel confident that the engine and gearbox's general condition is OK. Hopefully not needing to split C/Case.. Though if i have too i will...

The engine would have to come out to do the above. Don't be in any hurry to split the cases unless you really have too.

I have'nt ridden it yet to source other real issues if any, so whilst i wait for top set i will try to get some of my questions answered..

I would love to hear of any "tips" as to what i should look for and what i "must do" while engine is out prior to stripping.. Basically the inherent faults from factory that have been overcome by members.... That is if there are any factory faults!!!

Check through the rest of the tips on my site. In particular, check the clutch while you're inside the rear case for the alternator shaft. And do the scavenge pump gasket mod. You also must check for play in the water pump. Timing belts MUST be changed as a matter of course if you don't know the history of them.

Second question, Frame and comp plate have same numbers GLI 10167XX and the engine is GL 1E 10169xx.... Is the engine number and frame/comp number suppose to be the same ??? i.e. 3 matching numbers... What are the thoughts as to whether this is the original engine.. I was told it was original and licence papers also verify numbers.. But what do the experts say??.

Numbers never matched. Those are correct numbers for the year.

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olchris
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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:47 am

Old Fogey wrote:
olchris wrote:I found a site elsewhere with "exploded" mechanical views and noticed there are Rubber Dampers 13436- 371-000 in the alternator that i guess would "harden" or wear.... Could this be the source of the rattle in the alternator area????.

Yes it could be. The rubbers become as hard as a rock (literally, you can shatter them like rock) due to the heat. The rebuild isn't too difficult; finding the new rubbers is!
Check this out: http://www.wingovations.com/alternator- ... 4579471110



The motor will eventually come out for "makeup" once i have it running right and feel confident that the engine and gearbox's general condition is OK. Hopefully not needing to split C/Case.. Though if i have too i will...

The engine would have to come out to do the above. Don't be in any hurry to split the cases unless you really have too.

I have'nt ridden it yet to source other real issues if any, so whilst i wait for top set i will try to get some of my questions answered..

I would love to hear of any "tips" as to what i should look for and what i "must do" while engine is out prior to stripping.. Basically the inherent faults from factory that have been overcome by members.... That is if there are any factory faults!!!

Check through the rest of the tips on my site. In particular, check the clutch while you're inside the rear case for the alternator shaft. And do the scavenge pump gasket mod. You also must check for play in the water pump. Timing belts MUST be changed as a matter of course if you don't know the history of them.

Second question, Frame and comp plate have same numbers GLI 10167XX and the engine is GL 1E 10169xx.... Is the engine number and frame/comp number suppose to be the same ??? i.e. 3 matching numbers... What are the thoughts as to whether this is the original engine.. I was told it was original and licence papers also verify numbers.. But what do the experts say??.

Numbers never matched. Those are correct numbers for the year.



Wow :o :o thanks Old Fogey for the detailed answers and the link to WinGovations.. Great set of "to do/check" topics on your site.. I will be searching it in detail in the near future..

olchris
Posts: 22
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2008 Triumph Speedy
72 Norton 750
75 Norton 850

Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby olchris » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:34 am

While i was poking around today i noticed that there appears to be a clutch "cover" missing, or is there?????. Amongst the dirt and grim i can see the item 4 (lever) and associated parts... I though that a cover was missing so i checked spare bike and found it to be the same..
I checked this diagram and no cover evident.... Can somebody confirm whether there is a cover or not... I cant imagine those working should be open to elements...


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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Old Fogey » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:06 am

If you can see the lever, the cover is missing.

Honda parts diagrams take a bit of getting used to. The cover you need is on this; #1, 2, 3, 27.

Note that there is a rubber ring gasket on the cover; many times it is missing, but that was never a separate part number.

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Grindl » Fri Jul 15, 2016 12:43 pm

Many , many issues discussed here . And lots of really good info being put out to a new Winger .

I had a similar situation on the alternator on my "78" at around 860,000 miles . Leaving work one day ; I got almost out to the road , ( about 1/4 mile ) and the area near the alternator began to emit a very loud , high pitched , screaming noise . Like a bad lathe cutter bit on tool steel . Shut the bike off and "spun" the motor over on a "dead" kill-switch . No noise....Hmm. Repeated the process . No noise . Started the motor , and she came to life as always . No noise . Started to ride up the driveway in 1st , and she started screaming again . As I came to a stop , it quit , and I waited a few minutes w/motor running . No more noise . Rode her home with no more screaming , but knew I was in for pulling a motor that week-end .
Long story shorter .....Two of the steel plates had worn to the point that they had become "pulled" out of the rivets that held them in place in the stator , and the two of them were magnetically attached to the rotor , dragging against the stator as the rotor spun . The rubbers were in excellent condition , which surprised me . So ; clean everything up , including taking the rotor apart and cleaning all the starter clutch stuff and re-assembling everything ..... New hi-output stator and good to go . Now you get to put the motor back in and re-connect everything . Pulling the motor takes longer than fixing the problem .
Just a suggestion ; but anytime you have to pull the motor to fix ANYTHING , it is wise to check and repair / replace anything you find , or considered suspect . Just sayin....

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Old Fogey » Fri Jul 15, 2016 8:27 pm

Grindl wrote: I had a similar situation on the alternator on my "78" at around 860,000 miles .

That has to be a high mileage record! And I assume there are more miles on it now it's fixed?

Long story shorter .....Two of the steel plates had worn to the point that they had become "pulled" out of the rivets that held them in place in the stator , and the two of them were magnetically attached to the rotor , dragging against the stator as the rotor spun . The rubbers were in excellent condition , which surprised me . So ; clean everything up , including taking the rotor apart and cleaning all the starter clutch stuff and re-assembling everything ..... New hi-output stator and good to go . Now you get to put the motor back in and re-connect everything .

How did those plates get worn? Something must have been out of alignment, or the rotor shaft bearings loose or worn.

Pulling the motor takes longer than fixing the problem .
Just a suggestion ; but anytime you have to pull the motor to fix ANYTHING , it is wise to check and repair / replace anything you find , or considered suspect . Just sayin....

Couldn't agree more!

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby SnoBrdr » Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:23 am

Grindl wrote:Many , many issues discussed here . And lots of really good info being put out to a new Winger .

I had a similar situation on the alternator on my "78" at around 860,000 miles . Leaving work one day ; I got almost out to the road , ( about 1/4 mile ) and the area near the alternator began to emit a very loud , high pitched , screaming noise . Like a bad lathe cutter bit on tool steel . Shut the bike off and "spun" the motor over on a "dead" kill-switch . No noise....Hmm. Repeated the process . No noise . Started the motor , and she came to life as always . No noise . Started to ride up the driveway in 1st , and she started screaming again . As I came to a stop , it quit , and I waited a few minutes w/motor running . No more noise . Rode her home with no more screaming , but knew I was in for pulling a motor that week-end .
Long story shorter .....Two of the steel plates had worn to the point that they had become "pulled" out of the rivets that held them in place in the stator , and the two of them were magnetically attached to the rotor , dragging against the stator as the rotor spun . The rubbers were in excellent condition , which surprised me . So ; clean everything up , including taking the rotor apart and cleaning all the starter clutch stuff and re-assembling everything ..... New hi-output stator and good to go . Now you get to put the motor back in and re-connect everything . Pulling the motor takes longer than fixing the problem .
Just a suggestion ; but anytime you have to pull the motor to fix ANYTHING , it is wise to check and repair / replace anything you find , or considered suspect . Just sayin....


860K mileage ?

Was that a mistake or actual mileage.

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Rednaxs60 » Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:47 am

Just getting my '85 LTD back on the road. Only 3 items left in the to be renewed bin. When you do the work, don't get into the snowball effect, it can turn a small project into a big one. I'm guilty of doing this. Good luck, these are great bikes.

Cheers
"When you write the story of your life, don't let anyone else hold the pen"

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Grindl » Sat Jul 16, 2016 11:58 am

To Snwbrdr : No ! That was not a mistake . My Wings have never been "Driveway Jewelry"! I have over 71,000 miles on that bike from my "Rides" to the Wall , alone . About one year later ; and about 53,000 miles , while doing routine maintenance , I did a compression check and found it to be near low end , so I pulled the heads for a visual . I found completely smooth bores , with zero cross-hatching left , and decided it was time to retire that motor , rather than go to the expense of a rebuild .

The 1,000 got replaced with a 82 GL-1100 motor , and I put the 1,000 heads back on it for aesthetics . The bike was sold to the son of my forty year ridin Brother , and he is riding it six or seven days a week , and on weekends with his Lady .

Mileage at the time of engine replacement was 910,458 give or take a few , since no speedometer is perfect . No magic here . Change the oil every 3,000-3,5000 hundred miles , and filter every other oil change , and coolant once a year . Keep it tuned w/fresh plugs and points , and keep the carbs synched . And RIDE it ......Honda ran million mile test track runs on these bikes . Why is 860,000 surprising to you , or anyone else ?

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Re: Alternator Rattle/Noise

Postby Grindl » Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:21 pm

To Old Fogey : All of the "plates in the stator were the same thickness when I mic'd them . Only thing I can think was the rivets just gave up the ghost after thirty-five years . Most of the other plates in the stator were also loose . Stuff just wears out . The plates were 'pulled" out of the rivets , and there was no sign , or indication , of anything being out of alignment . I visually checked the stator , and rotor , with a 7x Opti-Visor , looking for a "cause". And found no marks on the rotor , either . Put a .0001 (tenths) indicator on the rotor shaft , and got a variance of 7.5-8.0 run-out , which is near book spec . Outstanding for a motor with those miles .

Folks ; You have to consider that where I ride , ( S.W. United States ) if you break-down on some of the roads I ride , you are 100 miles or more from the nearest town , and sometimes 200 miles from the nearest Honda dealer , or motorcycle junkyard . (parts source) And we have had 21 straight days of 110 degrees or higher . So I take the care and feeding of my bikes beyond serious . Closer to O.C.D. , you could say . But I ride them . I'm a Rider , first , last , and always . I grit my teeth when I have to get into a "CAGE", to go anywhere . Hate it !




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