Front brakes making me crazy


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binder49
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Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100 Goldwing

Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:27 pm



I have a1980 Gl1100. I have rebuilt the master cylinder, paying close attention the the little hole. Rebuilt the calipers. Replaced the lines with braided. Replaced the pads. On the way home today, one of the calipers started to hang up to the piont of smoke. Opened the bleeder, and it loosen up just fine. These things are driving me nuts, been a problem for awhile. Any help would be appreciated

Thanks



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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:46 pm

I replaced the pistons with new, and polished the cylinders with fine steel wool making sure to blow out all the debris. the pistons slid in nicely with the new seals installed.

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tallman21
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby tallman21 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:23 pm

Did you check the line? maybe that could be blocked up with something?

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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:52 pm

When the calipers start dragging the lever gets rock solid. Opening the bleeder takes care of that also. Could filling the master cylinder too full cause this. I have it about 3/16 to 1/4 of an inch from the top. The lines seem to be clear.

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tallman21
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby tallman21 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:26 pm

im not sure if over filling would cause that or not? possible? there should be a full line in your reservoir. best not to go over that. If your pistons/ calipers are completely clear and those little holes are clear (can blow through them) then im not really sure... maybe true flushing some brake fluid through the lines and clearing anything else that might be lodged in there. Some of the other guys might have some better ideas

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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:30 pm

Like I said, making me crazy. Thanks for the help though

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tallman21
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby tallman21 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:32 pm

may sound silly but gotta ask. Got the right pads on it? not to thick?

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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:40 pm

I ordered them online. Was wondering that myself. I just recieved another set I ordered, because the ones on the bike now are cooked. Not sure how thick they should be. But I'll look into it

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tallman21
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby tallman21 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:46 pm

yea check cause i believe the rear ones are thicker than the front ones also. That was something I read you need to look out for.

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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:53 pm

Okay, that would explain alot. when I got the new pads, they were loose in a box. I could have very easily mixed then up. I thought they were the same. Thanks for the info

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tallman21
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby tallman21 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:55 pm

No problem! let us know how the new ones work out.

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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:56 pm

I will do that

Thanks alot

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moorew
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby moorew » Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:49 pm

Just my opinion here but if you put on pads that were too thick the caliper will not go on the rotor. Since the wheel/rotor rotates freely at first and AFTER you release the pressure in the line, the pads are not causing the problem. Since you say the lever gets hard to pull and the brake drags and/or locks up I'm thinking the line pressure isn't getting released, especially since opening the bleeder valve temporarily fixes it. I would look for something partially blocking a line or passage, including BOTH little holes in the Master Cylinder. I have seen lines that get kinked, or fail internally with a "flap", act like a one-way valve causing problems like you describe. You said the lines were new but I have seen new parts fail right out of the box - DOA.

Good luck!

Bill
Noblesville, IN

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patbrandon1
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby patbrandon1 » Tue Apr 24, 2012 11:20 pm

I got on later than may be helpful, but I just wanted to offer anything I can to help. When you release the bleeder and the caliper does release, this indicates a few things. First, the pistons are moving freely. Second, there is something not letting the fluid back into the reservoir. That indicate blockage somewhere. New hoses often have debris in them. Did you blow them out before installing them? My experience has been the little return hole in the master cylinder that allows fluid to flow back into the reservoir get plugged VERY easily. Please read the following post and pay close attention to the bottom two replies...viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10456&p=51444&hilit=bleed+brakes#p51444
After you replace the new pads you got, I would take off the lines, blow them out with brake cleaner, clean the little hole as well as possible. To bleed the brakes, use some suction to pull the fluid such as a Mity-vac or siphon, to insure that ALL the air is out of the lines. Air in the lines can stop fluid from returning as well. Also, do not fill the fluid past the full line, it says MAX for a reason. There needs to be room for the fluid to return. Do not skimp on the quality of fluid, buy the best brake fluid money can buy.
There is blockage somewhere, it may be tedious to figure out, but you CAN figure it out. New is not always flawless. I have had new parts fail. Something is blocking the fluid from returning. Please keep us posted on your progress. Remember to breathe and believe.

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binder49
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby binder49 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:30 pm

Thanks you guys for all your input. I'm going to flush and blow out all the lines, and I ordered a new master cylinder. My old one has made me mad

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britman
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby britman » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:19 pm

One thing you might want to do as well . Is to pull the brake lever all the way back and tie it off . Then with the bike on the side stand leave it over night and as air goes up if you have some air left in the lines this will work some of it out

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virgilmobile
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby virgilmobile » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:26 pm

Have a read about the Admin's brake.He rebuilt his too,and did the same thing.viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10914

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:12 pm

Why do you need to leave it on the side stand when you tie off the lever?Regards,Johnyy

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britman
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby britman » Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:44 pm

So the air will rise up because the bike is at an angle

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Johnyy Smoke
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby Johnyy Smoke » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:09 pm

That makes sense-perhapes our friends problem is his front brake rotors are s**t?Regards,Johnyy

Winged Migrater
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby Winged Migrater » Wed May 02, 2012 8:51 pm

Just a note about front brakes sticking.
I just barely recovered from this happening with only seconds of notice when my front brake locked going down hill on a dirt road.
I noticed that I was adding more throttle and the back tire was actually spinning at the very moment the front locked up.
I was blood head to toe and people who saw me walking home slightly in the woods to keep people from staring at me thought I had just murdered someone.
Be careful.

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patbrandon1
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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby patbrandon1 » Wed May 02, 2012 9:55 pm

Winged Migrater wrote:Just a note about front brakes sticking.
I just barely recovered from this happening with only seconds of notice when my front brake locked going down hill on a dirt road.
I noticed that I was adding more throttle and the back tire was actually spinning at the very moment the front locked up.
I was blood head to toe and people who saw me walking home slightly in the woods to keep people from staring at me thought I had just murdered someone.
Be careful.


What do you suppose caused this to happen Winged Migrater?

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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby Winged Migrater » Thu May 03, 2012 6:45 am

patbrandon1 wrote:
Winged Migrater wrote:Just a note about front brakes sticking.
I just barely recovered from this happening with only seconds of notice when my front brake locked going down hill on a dirt road.
I noticed that I was adding more throttle and the back tire was actually spinning at the very moment the front locked up.
I was blood head to toe and people who saw me walking home slightly in the woods to keep people from staring at me thought I had just murdered someone.
Be careful.


What do you suppose caused this to happen Winged Migrater?

It looks like it was low brake fluid and somehow after using the brake, they may have expanded,and over heated riding against the disc.
Surprisingly, it was not locked when I returned and rode her home. It would not roll after the fall, so I had to leave her partly in the road,but no one had a problem getting around it.
I expect to find out more after I start removing the brakes and investigate it closely.
Sure glad I had sunglasses on. the rocks scraped gouges in the left lens!

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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby WingAdmin » Thu May 03, 2012 9:49 am

Winged Migrater wrote:It looks like it was low brake fluid and somehow after using the brake, they may have expanded,and over heated riding against the disc.
Surprisingly, it was not locked when I returned and rode her home. It would not roll after the fall, so I had to leave her partly in the road,but no one had a problem getting around it.
I expect to find out more after I start removing the brakes and investigate it closely.
Sure glad I had sunglasses on. the rocks scraped gouges in the left lens!


That's the classic symptoms of a blocked return port. The brake fluid heats up when the brakes are used (i.e. slowing down going downhill), so it expands. The return port in the master cylinder won't let it push the fluid up into the reservoir like it's supposed to, so it does the only thing it can - it pushes the pistons out, locking the wheel up.

If you loosen the bleeder screw, it lets the pressure out, and the brakes relax...until the next time it happens.

If you let it sit and cool off, the fluid contracts, the pistons are no longer pushing the pads against the disc, and everything seems fine - until the next time you heat up the brakes again.

In either case, the correct fix is to clear out the return port.

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Re: Front brakes making me crazy

Postby Winged Migrater » Thu May 03, 2012 5:39 pm

WingAdmin wrote:
Winged Migrater wrote:It looks like it was low brake fluid and somehow after using the brake, they may have expanded,and over heated riding against the disc.
Surprisingly, it was not locked when I returned and rode her home. It would not roll after the fall, so I had to leave her partly in the road,but no one had a problem getting around it.
I expect to find out more after I start removing the brakes and investigate it closely.
Sure glad I had sunglasses on. the rocks scraped gouges in the left lens!


That's the classic symptoms of a blocked return port. The brake fluid heats up when the brakes are used (i.e. slowing down going downhill), so it expands. The return port in the master cylinder won't let it push the fluid up into the reservoir like it's supposed to, so it does the only thing it can - it pushes the pistons out, locking the wheel up.

Man oh Man that seems so right on.

I am right now finishing a job for someone that expects my total attention, so if I get a min. I will bring it inside the shop to take a look.
Thanks for this, I am going to start with the reservoir and work back to the shoes.
I can hardly wait to investigate your theory. Thanks


If you loosen the bleeder screw, it lets the pressure out, and the brakes relax...until the next time it happens.

If you let it sit and cool off, the fluid contracts, the pistons are no longer pushing the pads against the disc, and everything seems fine - until the next time you heat up the brakes again.

In either case, the correct fix is to clear out the return port.




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