Brake problems


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Brake problems

Postby sparky1008 » Sat May 05, 2012 3:24 pm



I Have a 1980 goldwing and have rebuilt both front calipers and reinstalled. i have also installed a aftermarket master cyclinder. i have tryed to bleed the brakes with a vaccum bleeder and the conventional way but i still have spongy brakes, the handle will travel all the way to the throttle with ease. if anyone has any solutions please let me know thanks.


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Re: Brake problems

Postby binder49 » Sat May 05, 2012 9:06 pm

Try leaving the bike on the side stand. then squeeze the brake lever all the way and tie it there, zip ties work good for this. Leave it that way overnight. this worked for me
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Re: Brake problems

Postby patbrandon1 » Sat May 05, 2012 10:42 pm

binder49 is correct. This will work if you pull the brake handle very tight, and keep as much pressure on it as you can with the zip tie. I won't go into why this works, but if you want to know, send me a message. If you don't want to wait overnight next time, here is a little trick to help you bleed more air out the first time. While you have the caliper in your hand just before you attach the line to it, once you are ready to put the brake back on the bike, position the caliper so that the line hole is facing up. Use an eye dropper or something like it to get as much brake fluid in the caliper as possible. Use a wire to stick in the hole as far as possible during this process to help get the air to escape. When you are sure you have gotten as much air out and fluid in as possible, re-attach the line while the hole is still facing up as much as possible.

When you use suction to bleed, it does get fluid quicker into the caliper, but as with all liquid, the fluid follows the path of least resistance. Therefor it will bypass some of the air behind the cylinders that were left empty to exit the bleeder hole.

In short, get as much fluid in the caliper as you can before you attach the brake line. It will help.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Sat May 19, 2012 6:49 pm

hi to every one i am not sure what year goldwings started having the right front brake and the rear connected , but i am having a real hard time getting the air out of my 81 system , rebuilt both front calipers and the master,, i beed brakes on airplanes and have never had so much trouble ,

if any one can help or has had this problem please get back to me thanks
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Re: Brake problems

Postby patbrandon1 » Sat May 19, 2012 9:39 pm

guy10596 wrote:hi to every one i am not sure what year goldwings started having the right front brake and the rear connected , but i am having a real hard time getting the air out of my 81 system , rebuilt both front calipers and the master,, i beed brakes on airplanes and have never had so much trouble ,

if any one can help or has had this problem please get back to me thanks


The secret is to use a siphon of some sort. I used a cheap gas siphon that fit on the bleeder just right, and sucked fluid through the system. Some people use what is called a Mityvac that is designed for brakes. That costs about $28 at Harbor Freight. Another tip is to fill the caliper with fluid before attaching the banjo bolt, that way you just have to pull fluid through the lines, and not so much get it behind the pistons. I too was baffled the first time I tried to bleed mine. But using suction does a great job. The pistons in the master cylinder are just too small to get it done without some help. When I attached my siphon to mine, I siphoned while I pulled gently on the handle, and I had fluid in the whole system in no time. Remember to breathe and don't let it get the best of ya. Holler back if you have any questions.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Sat May 19, 2012 9:46 pm

patbrandon1 wrote:
guy10596 wrote:hi to every one i am not sure what year goldwings started having the right front brake and the rear connected , but i am having a real hard time getting the air out of my 81 system , rebuilt both front calipers and the master,, i beed brakes on airplanes and have never had so much trouble ,

if any one can help or has had this problem please get back to me thanks


The secret is to use a siphon of some sort. I used a cheap gas siphon that fit on the bleeder just right, and sucked fluid through the system. Some people use what is called a Mityvac that is designed for brakes. That costs about $28 at Harbor Freight. Another tip is to fill the caliper with fluid before attaching the banjo bolt, that way you just have to pull fluid through the lines, and not so much get it behind the pistons. I too was baffled the first time I tried to bleed mine. But using suction does a great job. The pistons in the master cylinder are just too small to get it done without some help. When I attached my siphon to mine, I siphoned while I pulled gently on the handle, and I had fluid in the whole system in no time. Remember to breathe and don't let it get the best of ya. Holler back if you have any questions.

I have the mityvac i use it on the carbs when testing them but i am not sure how to use it for brakes
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Re: Brake problems

Postby patbrandon1 » Sat May 19, 2012 9:52 pm

Here is a link with a photo of the siphon I used to bleed my brakes. It is the last post in the thread. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10295

Not sure if you have the brake bleeding Mityvac, here is a link to what it looks like. http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV8000-Au ... B00265M9SS. I saw a friend of mine has one and now next time I will borrow it. You just pull the lever to suck the fluid through the bleeder. Make sure there is plenty of fluid in the master cylinder.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Sat May 19, 2012 9:57 pm

patbrandon1 wrote:Here is a link with a photo of the siphon I used to bleed my brakes. It is the last post in the thread. viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10295

Not sure if you have the brake bleeding Mityvac, here is a link to what it looks like. http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV8000-Au ... B00265M9SS. I saw a friend of mine has one and now next time I will borrow it. You just pull the lever to suck the fluid through the bleeder. Make sure there is plenty of fluid in the master cylinder.

i guess you would have to use a lot of line so that you dont suck fluid into the Vac ?
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Re: Brake problems

Postby WingAdmin » Sun May 20, 2012 12:57 am

The Mity-Vac has a container that all the fluid goes into, so it doesn't suck it into the pump:

Image
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Re: Brake problems

Postby seabee_ » Sun May 20, 2012 2:27 am

The mityvac brake bleeder with the cup between the vac and caliper does work great. Just be sure to hook the lines up correctly to the pump. One connector has a hose that goes to thebottom of the cup. The other connector does not have a hose inside the cup. I was in a hurry one time and got the hoses hooked up backwards. Sucking brake fluid into the pump is not a good thing. The connector with the hose going to the bottom of the cup connects to the CALIPER.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Sun May 20, 2012 7:59 am

WingAdmin wrote:The Mity-Vac has a container that all the fluid goes into, so it doesn't suck it into the pump:

Image

Hi I went and looked at my mityvac same one it dosent come with cup so i guess you have to find a jar to fit it i may give it a try getting sick of bleeding like 4 hours yesterday thanks
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Fri May 25, 2012 5:21 pm

WingAdmin wrote:The Mity-Vac has a container that all the fluid goes into, so it doesn't suck it into the pump:

Image

Hi I got the brakes fixed found several problems ,
1. right side had pits on cylinder so it was drawing air
2. my fluid had too much water in it , went out and got new fluid
3. one bleeder had to be turned in very tight or it leaked
also note my vacuumed kit came with out the cup so i called the manufacture and they are sending one to me that unit works perfectly thanks for your help and i hope this helps someone out there
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Re: Brake problems

Postby seabee_ » Fri May 25, 2012 6:07 pm

guy10596 wrote:Hi I got the brakes fixed found several problems ,
1. right side had pits on cylinder so it was drawing air
--Possible to hone them out?--

2. my fluid had too much water in it , went out and got new fluid
--better to know you have all the water out. The water is what caused the pitting. That's why it's best to change the hydraulic fluids every 2-3 yrs.--

3. one bleeder had to be turned in very tight or it leaked
--You need to remove this bleeder screw and be sure to clean out the hole and bleeder screw. Sometimes, rust gets stuck where the screw seats in the hole causing leaks. If the bleeder screw is in bad shape, replace it. They're cheap at the auto parts store.--

also note my vacuumed kit came with out the cup so i called the manufacture and they are sending one to me that unit works perfectly thanks for your help and i hope this helps someone out there
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Re: Brake problems

Postby patbrandon1 » Fri May 25, 2012 10:37 pm

seabee_ wrote:
guy10596 wrote:3. one bleeder had to be turned in very tight or it leaked
--You need to remove this bleeder screw and be sure to clean out the hole and bleeder screw. Sometimes, rust gets stuck where the screw seats in the hole causing leaks. If the bleeder screw is in bad shape, replace it. They're cheap at the auto parts store.--


Also that rust can break loose from bleeding and work it's way into that little return hole and cause blockage again. Defiantly replace it.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Sat May 26, 2012 6:54 am

81 11000 miles one owner
81 11000 miles one owner
81 11000 miles one owner
81 11000 miles one owner
patbrandon1 wrote:
seabee_ wrote:
guy10596 wrote:3. one bleeder had to be turned in very tight or it leaked
--You need to remove this bleeder screw and be sure to clean out the hole and bleeder screw. Sometimes, rust gets stuck where the screw seats in the hole causing leaks. If the bleeder screw is in bad shape, replace it. They're cheap at the auto parts store.--


Also that rust can break loose from bleeding and work it's way into that little return hole and cause blockage again. Defiantly replace it.

I did all the cleaning while i had it apart but this was not the normal just bleed and drive , it made me work at it , i think maybe this bike was just testing see attached
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Re: Brake problems

Postby seabee_ » Sat May 26, 2012 9:54 am

Very nice looking bike. I have the same grips on my bars.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby guy10596 » Sat May 26, 2012 10:12 am

seabee_ wrote:Very nice looking bike. I have the same grips on my bars.

I have it on ebay and we will see what happens hate to sell this one but ma ma says has to go , but she did say i could get a BMW Z 3 need something more then the airplane and the boat to keep me out of trouble
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Re: Brake problems

Postby k2bertie » Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:34 pm

I had the dreaded spongy front brake problem, I read this post and a couple of others and it seem to be a bit of a problem after rebuild of calipers and master cylinder which I had done. I still have my braided st.st. lines front and back to fit. Before I fit them I tried the above method of pumping the brake lever and tie wrapping it to the handlebars, left it over night and yes it worked front brakes are perfect. (Oh on centre stand as it was last thing at night and could not be bothered to put it on side stand)

I have pondered over "why should this work" in my opinion I think once you rebulid the calipers the seals are in the caliper wall (in most cars the seal is on the end of the piston) so after pushing the piston back in there is an air trap all around the piston till it meets the seal, I think that once the pressure is on the fluid pushes this traped air past the seal until the gap is filled with fuid which will not pass the seal. Brake fluid being a lot more dense (or is that just me) just my therory anyway. So when I fit the new lines (when they arrive) I will not have to worry about spongy brakes.

Thanks again for all your tips and I hope my post helps others too. :lol:
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Re: Brake problems

Postby WingAdmin » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:03 pm

There are lots of theories as to why this fixes the problem. My personal favorite is that there are air bubbles trapped in the system. Leaving the system in a pressurized state compresses the air bubbles, and allows them to pass easier upward toward the master cylinder, where they move into the reservoir.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby Kama » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:51 pm

I have a question about this. I had alot of problems with this on my 4-wheeler when I was racing. Bleeding it out after a fluid change was a nightmare as it had the same type of single line into a splitter that the goldwing does. I ended up changing over to a dual front line system (only two lines, one to each caliper straight from the master cyclinder). Is this something you could do as well for the goldwing? I don't see why not, but I don't see anyone posting anywhere about it. It has a few minor advantages and is ALOT easier to bleed. I'm having the same issue with my front brakes right now as after a full system rebuild they are spongy and have no stoping power what so ever. If I do pay for the steel lines I'd like to go dual if possible. Any opinions?
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Re: Brake problems

Postby k2bertie » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:49 am

Hi, Not sure about changing them to dual lines as if you think about it as I have done since reading your post. On a goldwing it splits into two yes but they are fed from one line from the master cylinder, so apart from the line to the spliter it is still only being fed from one master cyinder, my point is that two calipers have to have two lines whether split as it is or at the mastercylinder. Also try the tie wrapping as this did work for me and was posted by a few others and worked for them no matter how it does.

The st.st. braided lines, like you they are expensive, I would recommend changing your lines as my bike has lines that are 32 years old and look fine but using a guage I have found that they do swell when on presure, not having anything to compare too, as a mechanical engineer of 40+ years I feel that this should not happen. Rubber lines do rot on the inside and can cause problems which cannot be seen. So I have invested in st.st braided as it would cost me at least half this to replace for standard lines and what the hell they are recomended by so many and will look better on the bike and after 32 years she deserves it.
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Re: Brake problems

Postby FlashBack » Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:55 pm

I noticed my front brakes are a bit spongy on my 83. Planned on rebuilding the calipers this winter. Would it hurt to do the tie-wrap process as is or is it applicable only after a caliper rebuild?
Thanks
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Re: Brake problems

Postby patbrandon1 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:07 pm

FlashBack wrote:I noticed my front brakes are a bit spongy on my 83. Planned on rebuilding the calipers this winter. Would it hurt to do the tie-wrap process as is or is it applicable only after a caliper rebuild?
Thanks


It won't hurt a thing, and probably will actually help. I do it whenever a brake line bleed has been done. I know it helps mine.


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