Clutch/Gearbox issue


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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moritz1100
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:25 am
Location: ireland
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100

Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby moritz1100 » Sun May 20, 2012 6:48 am



Looking for your help on this strange problem on my 1980 GL1100, symptoms are; won't shift into neutral when the engine is running and the bike is at a stop, sometimes if i'm careful and quick enough i can get it into neutral while coasting to a stop but once i'm stopped it's very hard to get it to shift up and usually just jumps up to 2nd with a lot of force on the shifter. If i turn off the engine it goes into neutral easily. There's definitely some problem with the clutch(the p/o replaced the friction discs but not the springs) i can't adjust it so i have a little free play,it's adjusted so short that i can't get the lower nut on the adjuster down at the engine, if i adjust it so i have some free play then it doesn't pull enough to free the clutch, can't move the bike in gear with the clutch pulled. It doesn't seem to be slipping when driving and shifts through the gears fine when moving.
The bike was laid up outside for a long time before i bought it as a non-runner and was hydro-locked in one cylinder, could it be down to fuel/water being in the oil causing the friction discs to expand? There was a lot of non-oil liquid in the oil when i drained it. Tempted to order a new clutch and springs but wanted to get some second opinions here first..
Thanks in advance!



moritz1100
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:25 am
Location: ireland
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby moritz1100 » Sun May 20, 2012 7:01 am

Forgot the most worrying thing, when I'm in first and accelerate hard from a stop, a horrible grating/grinding noise comes from somewhere in the engine, very hard to pinpoint where it's coming from, had my buddy in the sidecar listening for the noise and he reckons its coming from somewhere near the front of the engine.. if i back off the throttle a little it goes away..

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seabee_
Posts: 494
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Location: sterling heights, mi
Motorcycle: 1985 Honda Goldwing GL1200
117k miles
1977 Kawasaki kz400
1978 Suzuki GSXr750
1980 Kawasaki GPZ400
1975 Honda CB360T

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby seabee_ » Sun May 20, 2012 6:14 pm

Before doing a major replacement of the clutch try something cheap and easy first. remove about 4 ounces of oil and add 4 ounces of Seafoam into the crankcase oil. Ride it easy for about 100 miles, not revving more then 3500 rpms. Do a lots of upshifting and downshifting. Then drain the oil, replace the oil filter and add new oil. I use Delo LE 15w40 oil myself, others use Rotela T, and I had the same shifting issues you have. Now I can find neutral every time. No more clunk when shifting also. The Seafoam will clean out the crankcase, clutch plates and starter sprag clutch.
Paul
CE1 Navy Seabees/RET
1981 to 2002
ASE Mechanic

moritz1100
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:25 am
Location: ireland
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby moritz1100 » Mon May 21, 2012 3:23 am

Thanks for the reply, since getting the bike i've changed the oil twice, once after using a can of engine flush in the oil(I'm in Ireland,we don't have seafoam,just Wynns engine flush) That said, when I used the engine flush I didn't ride the bike, just idled it in the garage for 10 mins and changed the oil.. I'll try it again, and see if it works.

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seabee_
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 8:17 pm
Location: sterling heights, mi
Motorcycle: 1985 Honda Goldwing GL1200
117k miles
1977 Kawasaki kz400
1978 Suzuki GSXr750
1980 Kawasaki GPZ400
1975 Honda CB360T

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby seabee_ » Mon May 21, 2012 4:07 am

Do they sell Marvel Mystery Oil there. It's almost similar to seafoam. The other suggestion is to put the bike on the center stand when you put the flush in and carefully work through the gears.
Paul
CE1 Navy Seabees/RET
1981 to 2002
ASE Mechanic

moritz1100
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:25 am
Location: ireland
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby moritz1100 » Mon May 21, 2012 10:32 am

No MMO here either, I've got WD40 and Wynns engine flush :) . Picked up another can and more oil so as soon as my new starter motor arrives in the post I'll run it a couple of miles with the flush and then change the oil and see what happens. Fingers crossed I don't have to take out the engine and replace the clutch..

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prc
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 2:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Motorcycle: 82 GL1100
2011 KLR 650

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby prc » Thu May 31, 2012 5:43 am

Since your on the subject of clutches I was wanting to know if you can replace the clutch springs and plates without removing the engine. I have heard this is possible and want the opinion of someone that has experience with the 82 1100.
Thanks, prc

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patbrandon1
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:39 am
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 I
1981 Honda CM400C

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby patbrandon1 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:12 pm

moritz1100 wrote:Forgot the most worrying thing, when I'm in first and accelerate hard from a stop, a horrible grating/grinding noise comes from somewhere in the engine, very hard to pinpoint where it's coming from, had my buddy in the sidecar listening for the noise and he reckons its coming from somewhere near the front of the engine.. if i back off the throttle a little it goes away..


I got this noise when I first got my GL1100I. Does it sound a little like marbles rolling around in the engine? Shortly after I got it, one of the coils went bad. I replaced it, synced the carbs, and the noise went away. I believe the sound was a spark and power issue, and think that the coil was intermittently not firing the plugs, causing a low power situation, and producing the noise. Your noise may not be related to the clutch in this case. Just passing on my experience. Also, the Seafoam worked great for my finding neutral easier. And the clutch works better. There must be something comparable to seafoam in your area, you do need to run it at least 100 miles gently to clean everything out good. Keep us posted.

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WingAdmin
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Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby WingAdmin » Thu May 31, 2012 4:10 pm

patbrandon1 wrote:I got this noise when I first got my GL1100I. Does it sound a little like marbles rolling around in the engine? Shortly after I got it, one of the coils went bad. I replaced it, synced the carbs, and the noise went away. I believe the sound was a spark and power issue, and think that the coil was intermittently not firing the plugs, causing a low power situation, and producing the noise. Your noise may not be related to the clutch in this case. Just passing on my experience. Also, the Seafoam worked great for my finding neutral easier. And the clutch works better. There must be something comparable to seafoam in your area, you do need to run it at least 100 miles gently to clean everything out good. Keep us posted.


If one coil was going bad, and it was putting out a weaker spark than the other coil, you could have definitely been getting the same symptoms as an engine with unbalanced carbs (some cylinders making more power than others), which will make that terrible noise under load.

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eklimek
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Location: St Catharines Ontario Canada
Motorcycle: 81 GL1100 (Widowmaker not in service), 83GL1100, CB350f x 6, CB400f x2, CB550f sold, CL350 (seized engine), plus enough donors to take me through retirement.

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby eklimek » Thu May 31, 2012 6:13 pm

Don't have seafoam?

fuel injector cleaners - ingredients from this web site
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... er=1187818

MSDS data:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Techron Concentrate
Distillates, hydrotreated light < 50 %weight Aka: Paint thinner(oil based)
Stoddard solvent < 35 %weight Aka: dry clean solvent, white solvent
Solvent naphtha, light aromatic 5 - 10 %weight : zippo lighter fluid
Benzene, 1,2,4-trimethyl- 95-63-6 1 - 5 %weight : powerful toxic solvent
Xylene , powerful solvent

Techron is naptha and 3 kinds of benenze.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GUM OUT INJECTOR CLEANER (WINTER GRADE)

Chemical Percent
Trade secret or proprietary formula < 1 ( secret #1)
Petroleum distillate(s) (unspecified) 40-70 ( most likely paint thinner)
Detergent/Inhibitor mixture 1-10 ( secret #2 )
Isopropanol 30-50 (rubbing alcohol, GAS DRYER "CH3CHOHCH3")
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seafoam ingredients:
1 PALE OIL 4229 40-60% = A base or process oil refined until its color = yellow.
2 NAPHTHA 20 25-35% solvent powerful , common in all good injector cleaners. Zippo juice !
3 IPA 125 10-20% = Isopropyl Alcohol (rubbing alcohol),
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"GM TEC" ingredients:

2-BUTOXYETHANOL, a paint and ink solvent , used even in Clorox cleaner 409
Naptha, , raises octane rating of gas, , simular to Zippo ligher fluid. Coleman camp fuel.
4-METHYL-2-PENTANOL, (aka:Methyl isobutyl carbinol) used as a lacquer paint tinner
9-OCTADECENDIC ACID.(aka:Oleic acid, found in Olive oil)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BG-44k:

Light Aromatic Solvent Naphtha , ( Zippo lighter fluid)
1, 2, 4-Trimethylbenzene , commonly found in up to 7% by volume already in Gasoline.
Xylene ,(1,2-dimethylbenzene & 1,3-dimethylbenzene & 1,4-dimethylbenzene), xylol , powerful solvent
Cumene ,(isopropylbenzene, ) powerful solvent,raises octane of gasoline.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GUNK , RADIATOR SPECIALTY COMPANY, FUEL INJECTION AIR INTAKE CLEANER

2-Propanone 30-60 % aka: Acetone
Ethylbenzene >10 % a powerful solvent
Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic Distillate 1-10 % weak solvent
Methanol 1-4% , solvent.
Propane 10-30% , gas
Toluene 15-45% ,powerful solvent
Xylene (mixed isomers) 5-20%
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red Line SI-1
1-5% Alkenylamine - (a detergent ,even used sometimes,in baby shampoo)
1-10% Isoctanol - ( C8H18O , aka, 2-ethylhexan-1-ol, or Octyl alcohol)
1-10% 1,2,4 Trimethylbenzene , (C9H12 )
5-20% Aliphactic Napthta , zippo lighter fluid. , aka: white gas, low octane)
--------------------------------

Valvoline Complete Fuel System Cleaner
52 - 62% Kersosene
28-38% Light hydrotreated petroleum distillate
6-16% Stoddard Solvent ( stoddard is the name of the man who invented dry cleaning)

moritz1100
Posts: 67
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:25 am
Location: ireland
Motorcycle: 1980 GL1100

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby moritz1100 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:13 am

ok,so new starter came and I put in my can of engine cleaner. The can said to only idle the engine at no more than 3500 rpm for 10 mins, it needed to be taken through the gears and worked around the clutch though, so I took it for a 10 mile spin, going really easy and plenty of gear changes. Got home,let it cool a little and drained the oil, only 100 miles on that oil and it was black. Put in fresh oil but couldn't get the oil filter bolt off, some p/o had stripped the hell out of it,new one in the post, somehow managed to convince myself to leave it alone until I have the new one in my hands. Seeing as I couldn't change the filter, I didn't want to contaminate my new oil so I just left it parked up with a zip tie holding the clutch lever back to the grip for a couple of days. Couldn't resist going for a spin today though(rare sunshine). Clutch feels so much better, even managed to adjust it back so I now have a little free play and the gearbox feels way better, goes into neutral way easier but not quite at a full stop, just slip it into neutral coasting to a stop, good enough for me,I'll put it down to the bikes character, time to move on :)
As for the noise pulling away from a stop, yeah it could be described as a dozen large marbles rattling around the crankcase. I'll be ordering a set of vacuum gauges this week, my money's definitely on that as the p/o said he'd cleaned the carbs and synchronised them by ear! right..
Steering wobble is gone completely, took the front end apart and turns out the steering head bearings were barely finger tight. Now I can drive with one hand :)

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patbrandon1
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:39 am
Location: Bay City, Michigan
Motorcycle: 1982 GL1100 I
1981 Honda CM400C

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby patbrandon1 » Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:00 pm

moritz1100 wrote: As for the noise pulling away from a stop, yeah it could be described as a dozen large marbles rattling around the crankcase. I'll be ordering a set of vacuum gauges this week, my money's definitely on that as the p/o said he'd cleaned the carbs and synchronised them by ear! right..
Steering wobble is gone completely, took the front end apart and turns out the steering head bearings were barely finger tight. Now I can drive with one hand :)


I enjoy it when it comes together for people. Glad you got it mortiz. As for the sync, it will help your marbles. But I would also find something comparable to Seafoam to run through it as well. One of the slides could be stuck. Pull the aircleaner off and stick an inspection mirror in the bottom of the plenum.
Angle and look down the throat at the slide. It should pop up when you rap the throttle. Look at each one for equality. I had one stick that caused the marble noise when I first got one of mine. The Seafoam freed it, I am now getting better gas mileage, better response, and more power. I ran Seafoam through two tanks of gas. Good riding to you.

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seabee_
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 8:17 pm
Location: sterling heights, mi
Motorcycle: 1985 Honda Goldwing GL1200
117k miles
1977 Kawasaki kz400
1978 Suzuki GSXr750
1980 Kawasaki GPZ400
1975 Honda CB360T

Re: Clutch/Gearbox issue

Postby seabee_ » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:35 pm

Glad to hear it's coming along nicely. I think one more flush treatment with another short trip shifting thru the gears will help more with the shifting. What kind of oil are you using? Can you get Rotella or Delo LE oils? They both really help out with the shifting. What type of fuel/petrol treatments do you have there? If you don't have any injector or carb cleaners you can try a little ATF (transmission fluid) added to the fuel tank. ATF has a lot of detergents in it that will help clean and lube things.


Paul
CE1 Navy Seabees/RET
1981 to 2002
ASE Mechanic


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