Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems


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Bill Powell
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Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:32 pm



I have a 1981 GL 1100 Interstate. Trying to restore this bike from years of neglect. So far I rebuilt the carbs usung the GoldwingDocs rebuild guide. The bike now runs and fuel is reaching all carbs. The bike runs great at 2k RPM's and above. Trying to adjust the main idle screw down to the recommended 950 RPM's is very difficult. The bike starts to spit and sputter and a very loud knocking noise from the right side of the motor. If I reset the idle screw back to where it was before, the bike will start up perfectly but idle is above 2k again.

At first I thought it was a valve adjustment. I went through all of that and everything seems to be adjusted properly. There was a little play from the #3 valve but not much at all. I also checked the timing before. I didn't need to make any adjustments as everything seemed to be on mark. Could the belts be stretched and out of alignment a little??? What would the loud knocking noise be - possibly the timing idler wheel???

Can the motor run with the timing covere off in order to try and narrow this down??

Bill



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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby thrasherg » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:37 pm

Are you sure the vacuum advance/retard is working? If it isn't it will be very difficult to get the engine to idle smoothly or run right below 2000 RPM.. As the engine is running well above 2000RPM, it is unlikely to be the valve clearances or even valve timing. You either have blocked idle jets in the carbs or an issue with the ignition timing (In my opinion)..

Gary

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:54 pm

Thanks for the quick reply Gary.

At first the loud knocking noise is what had me alarmed at first. This is why I went with the valve adjustments and timing chain area. The noise was prodominately in that area on the right side of the motor.

If I remember correctly the idle jets were slightly different within the rebuilt kit that I purchased (shorter needle). Of course I installed the new jets into each carb. I still have the old ones and can probably get them cleaned up and reinstall them to see.

That is a very good thought and it shouldn't take me no time to get them cleaned up and swapped out.

Bill

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby seabee_ » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:50 pm

Did you sync the carbs after rebuilding them? That is important. If the carbs are out of sync the motor will run very rough and sometimes will have a knock. All the butterflies have to work in unison or the motor will sound unbalanced.
Paul
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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby thrasherg » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:07 pm

This is a good point, at idle speed, carb sync is critical to a smooth idle..

Gary

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:50 pm

Because I can't get the idle below 2k rpm's sync-ing wouldn't or shouldn't matter at this point or will it?? The butterflies were matched across all four carbs - "bench sync". I put the gauges on while the idle was high but had no luck in getting a consistent reading. Attempting to lower the idle from 2k down to 1.9k made the motor run rough and the loud knocking sound from the right side of the engine. I could throttle up to keep it running and that worked fine. But anything below 1.9 to 1.8k RPM's the engine would die. Adjusting the idle screw back up and the bike will start back up again but very high idle.

I rode the bike last week around the block. Accelerating through the gears I had NO problems. No backfiring, no popping - all was very good. If I let the bike idle fall below 1800 rpms at a stop sign it would die. Consistantly reving the engine up at 2k kept the bike running.

Bill

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby thrasherg » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:23 pm

So try checking the ignition advance/retard unit. It's mechanical and you should be able to check it quite easily, if it has perished and is leaking you will get a lean mixture (Air leaking into the inlet manifold) which will make idle difficult plus the timing will be at full advance which also makes low engine speeds very difficult.. That would be my first check.

Gary

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby virgilmobile » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:16 pm

thrasherg wrote:So try checking the ignition advance/retard unit. It's mechanical and you should be able to check it quite easily, if it has perished and is leaking you will get a lean mixture (Air leaking into the inlet manifold) which will make idle difficult plus the timing will be at full advance which also makes low engine speeds very difficult.. That would be my first check.

Gary


Just a note about the vacuum.Sorry,the vacuum port can not leak into the manifold and cause poor idle.
The vacuum port(s) are in fact close to the plenum box.Even before the slides and each carb has one.
If you measure the vacuum on the line,at a idle it is very near zero.As the throttle is rapped up it will climb to about 5" of vacuum.
The 1100 has 2 timing advance systems,a mechanical one and the vacuum one that pulls it just that much further.Using a timing light is the best way to see if each works correctly.Including of course,testing to see if the vacuum canister does hold a vacuum.

For your problem,adjust the main throttle screw all the way loose.Open the throttle just enough to start the bike.I don't care if it rattles,just start it and run it for 5 seconds as low of a rpm as possible under 1500,then shut it off.

Tap lightly on each header pipe.a warm pipe is a running cylinder.a cold one is dead.

This bike can run on one cylinder at a idle(1500 rpm) and drive OK (main jets)
You can also kill one ignition coil and drive it too.I tried it just to see.

Run the engine for 5 more seconds at 3000 rpm and shut it down.Tap the headers again.The same results.Cold is dead,warm is firing.

You need 3 things to fire a cylinder at a idle....compression(140 psi min.) spark at the right time and just the right amount of fuel mixture.
Obviously one of these are off.

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:34 pm

I will get the bike back on the lift and check it out further.

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby littlebeaver » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:18 pm

Did you pull the idle jets and clean them, did you test the pulse generator plug by the battery with a multimeter, check each wire, refer to manual for this or the readings...Double check the float heights in the carbs.. Plugs and wires too.

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:26 am

Will do,

How do you adjust the float height for each carb?? I cleaned and replaced each float. I didn't realize there was a certain height each one had to be at.

I just ordered new replacement idle jets. They should be in NLT this Saturday.

Bill

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby virgilmobile » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 pm

This is the best detailed overview I've seen.
Most of the way down it shows how to tilt the carbs for proper float measurment.
****http://www.ngwclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12168......

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:56 pm

Awesome everyone, thanks. I'll post progress when I start getting into this.

Bill

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby littlebeaver » Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:31 pm

You have a 1981 sir , the idles jets are clogged I would bet you a nickel.. I am currently working on a extractor for those pressed in jets..I used a easy out bit to get them out before but I'm going with another idea, and it ain't no dry wall screw either..I should have it on here soon, it's going to be neat... :D

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:31 am

I was looking at that over the weekend. There is no way to pull them out that I can see. I did pull the main jets along with the holder and re-cleaned them. They were dirty (clogged) and needed cleaned again. I also re-adjusted the floats. I don't have the carbs back in the bike just yet, but will soon.

If you happen to find a way to pull the idle jets, please let me know.

Bill

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby tlcdmc » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:31 am

the jets come out-clean them and chase all outbound circuits-bike will not run right until you do-

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:34 am

I have pulled many out Bill, but the last guy I told to do that got the wrong easy out bit and it broke off in the jet, so I hesitate to tell anyone to do that, that being said there were many guys that got the correct bit and got them out in a quick fashion...There are other more primitive ways that seem to work too, like using a drywall screw, tighten it in and pull them up and out with pliers or grips...I got my easyout bit from ace hardware, it's a #2 bit...I will see if I can post it, but the trick is to use a small adjustable wrench and turn it until the seal breaks loose and it will come right up...the new tool I'm working on is going to work like this, you tap down into the top with a tap[1/4 deep"] and I have a sink knob remover that I plan on using a die on to match the tap size then I can tighten it down into the top of the jet and turn a nut on the extractor tool and it will come straight up and then be unpressed in, either that or the threads will strip[ I doubt it]... Now There's about 3/4 " of meat before you get to the actual jet hole in the center and sides so this tapping won't bother a thing, that's why guys are using screws and such on the tops of them..I'll look up the extractor bit and post it on here...
Here's the extractor I'm working on,  Just take out threads in bar add awasher and nut, use adie on the tip 1/4 deep or so, tap down into the jet insert and screw down the nut that is placed above the bar, must flip bar over though
Here's the extractor I'm working on, Just take out threads in bar add awasher and nut, use adie on the tip 1/4 deep or so, tap down into the jet insert and screw down the nut that is placed above the bar, must flip bar over though
Now I just need to get the hole size for the jet so I can figure out the Tap I need and die I need the rest is simple..I really think this will work well and a little bit more professionally done. I'm probably gonna have to pull my carbs to get the hole size...What I need is an old jet or a old set of carbs I can try it out on that are set in there... That would be a true test..The extractor bit is Irwin ex-2 extractor..7/64 I have never not got a jet out with the easy out bit though and the small adjustable wrench, it gives you leverage..The only way to get these jets clean is to pull them because you have side holes that are clogged... I'd use a small wire off a small wire brush or some like to use a guitar string... the hole is small, don't try drilling it be patient and clean it slowly, you don't want to damage it..Again Tiny hole.. :shock: I hope I supplied you with a good visual of what you're doing here..You guy's think this tool of mine will pull these up..??? Or un-press them.. 80's and 81's are pressed in..
Last edited by littlebeaver on Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bill Powell
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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:30 pm

According to this diagram, I would have to go through the bottom of the carb body to get to the idle jets??



Once the jet is out, just clean and re-install or will I need to purchase new replacements??

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:41 pm

Sir I have the original jets on my bike. It ran like crap up until I worked on it though...but yes if you are careful and you don't damage the jets there is no reason that they can't be reused, but if you can find some new ones by all means replace them..I like to soak them over night in carb cleaner..Now here's video of me pulling my jets, they were previously pulled and this was just to show how I originally did it, they were in there good..It looks simple in the video but it's a little tougher the first time..


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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:53 pm

Well I need to get a #2 bit and see what I can do to get them removed and cleaned up.

If these jets are pressed in, I'm assuming there is no threads. Once cleaned - simply re-press them back into place??

The carbs are still on my bench at home. I pulled them over the weekend and replaced the Main Jets. They were clogged up even after cleaning them last year. I think I'm going to also run seafoam through them and let stand for 24 hours.

Bill

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:02 pm

Bill if you get the brand I got it should work fine,, Irwin Hanson and the bit is EX-2 7/64"...Take your time...Report back please..

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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby littlebeaver » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:08 pm


Bill Powell
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Re: Carberator Adjustments or Timing Problems

Postby Bill Powell » Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:23 pm

The video was AWESOME!!! - I'm looking up an ACE Hardware in my area now.

Thanks and I'll let you know how this comes out.

Bill




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