A Big thank you!


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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portugeezer
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A Big thank you!

Postby portugeezer » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:29 pm



Now that I have the Aspencade running I started looking around at the features it has. I pulled off the left signal and checked all the fuses. I found two that were blown. I replaced them and tried the air suspension buttons. It works! I then noticed the digital tach button. I thought I was idleing at 950RPM but the digital tach says 750RPM. It runs smooth there and I'm charging according to my meter at 15 volts so I see no reason to change it! I thank you all for the help and encouragement during the frustrations of getting this bike going! I get stopped by admirers when I take trips on my GL1000 so much it has become annoying! Can't wait to see how my fellow riders react to this bike! I've done so much work to both of them I can't see parting with either! I guess I will be on here asking annoying questions for a long time. Thank you all again!



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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:58 pm

15 volts is too high, especially at idle. You'll end up boiling the electrolyte out of your battery.

Check the black sense wire at your regulator/rectifier (under false tank, left side). When the bike is running, compare the voltage there to the voltage at the positive terminal of the battery.

The connectors, ignition switch, etc. that are in that black wire before it gets to the regulator degrade over time, reducing the voltage at the regulator. The regulator uses that black wire to determine what the battery voltage is, and how much to charge it. If that voltage is artificially reduced from old/dirty connectors and switches, the regulator will boost the charging voltage too high.

It's an easy fix - cut that black wire. Put a relay in there so that the black wire coming from the ignition actuates the coil of the relay. Connect the red wires at the regulator (they go directly to the battery) to the relay "normally open" contacts, and connect the black wire from the regulator to the "common" relay contact.

This will have the regulator using the actual battery voltage to regulate its charging, instead of the switched black wire voltage.

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portugeezer
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby portugeezer » Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:00 pm

Where should the voltage be? I'm questioning the accuracy of the volt meter I'm using. My multimeter says 14 volts but I have an old Motorola automotive battery and voltage tester that is reading closer to 15. Is there a way to check accuracy before I start trying to correct a problem that I may not have? Thank you for pointing this out either way. The difference in the two meters bothers me.

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby WingAdmin » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:52 am

14 is OK - 15 is too high. Technically it should be 13.8, but these bikes are usually in the low 14's.

Any digital multimeter should be reasonably accurate. Even the $5 digital multimeters sold at Harbor Freight match my expensive Fluke meter.

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:37 pm

WingAdmin wrote:15 volts is too high, especially at idle. You'll end up boiling the electrolyte out of your battery.

Check the black sense wire at your regulator/rectifier (under false tank, left side). When the bike is running, compare the voltage there to the voltage at the positive terminal of the battery.

The connectors, ignition switch, etc. that are in that black wire before it gets to the regulator degrade over time, reducing the voltage at the regulator. The regulator uses that black wire to determine what the battery voltage is, and how much to charge it. If that voltage is artificially reduced from old/dirty connectors and switches, the regulator will boost the charging voltage too high.

It's an easy fix - cut that black wire. Put a relay in there so that the black wire coming from the ignition actuates the coil of the relay. Connect the red wires at the regulator (they go directly to the battery) to the relay "normally open" contacts, and connect the black wire from the regulator to the "common" relay contact.

This will have the regulator using the actual battery voltage to regulate its charging, instead of the switched black wire voltage.


Wingman.....When reading your directions above, I have some questions as you have alot of action going on in that paragraph.

First, you mention "that black wire". You say "The connectors, ignition switch, etc. that are in that black wire before it gets to the regulator.....". When you say "black wire", my mind is thinking of one solitary wire, like the small black wire that runs into the Regulator/rectifier box. I am thinking that maybe you are describing the "wires that have black tape holding them in a group", so when you say "black wire" you are referring to a group of colored wires under that black tape. Clarify me on this issue.

Second....Your fix is to "cut that black wire". Now I am confused.....are you saying to cut the grouping of wires, or just the individual black wire that runs into the Regulator/Rectifier? I am confused at this point, and am wondering if you have a more detailed drawing showing what wire to cut, and where to cut the wire, and how to install a relay. In addition, what type of relay do I need? Maybe you have a detailed write-up someplace already on the forum?

Sorry for my failure to comprehend.....guess my brain is getting slower than it used to be.

The picture below shows the Regulator-Rectifier and the wires coming out of it. You can see the small black wire coming out, along with yellows, greens, and reds. Is this the black wire your talking about? Instead of cutting it off the bat, is there any likely spot where it may be getting a poor connection instead of at the connector?

All your help is appreciated.
dwight
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Small black wire coming out of Reg-Rectifier
Small black wire coming out of Reg-Rectifier

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:08 pm

If you see that white connector right below the regulator, there will be eight wires:

- Three yellow (carrying AC from the stator)
- Two green (ground)
- Two red/white (carrying +12V to the battery)
- One black (carries +12V from the ignition switch when "ON"

Instead of cutting it right off the bat, try this: Start the bike up, and with the RPM held at around 3,000 RPM, measure the voltage at the battery.

Next, using a paper clip or piece of wire shoved into the back of that white connector, jumper the black wire together with one of the red/white wires. Then measure the voltage at the battery again with the engine held at 3,000 RPM (same as before). If the voltage has gone from too high (high 14's or above) to around 14 or so, then you've found your problem.

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby RBGERSON » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:07 am

Now I have a question.."found your problem" does that mean the regulator is shot and needs to be replaced or you have a bad connection with the black wire that needs to be cleaned/replaced..etc.
HAD LOTS OF GOLDWING 75-83
NOW INTO 1500'S..RIDING A 1998 SE

FAIR WINDS,
RB

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby Wingsconsin » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:29 pm

I think all the replys at this point are moot....I believe this bike was one lost in the fire...
Although the information may help someone else in the future....
Postings are my opinions based on experience and acquired knowledge.
Your results may vary. Universal disclaimers apply.


Motorcycle Adventure Storys writen by me
http://neverlost-justexploring.blogspot.com/

dwight007fchr
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:24 pm

WingAdmin wrote:If you see that white connector right below the regulator, there will be eight wires:

- Three yellow (carrying AC from the stator)
- Two green (ground)
- Two red/white (carrying +12V to the battery)
- One black (carries +12V from the ignition switch when "ON"

Instead of cutting it right off the bat, try this: Start the bike up, and with the RPM held at around 3,000 RPM, measure the voltage at the battery.

Next, using a paper clip or piece of wire shoved into the back of that white connector, jumper the black wire together with one of the red/white wires. Then measure the voltage at the battery again with the engine held at 3,000 RPM (same as before). If the voltage has gone from too high (high 14's or above) to around 14 or so, then you've found your problem.



Thanks WingAdmin for this info. I will give this procedure a try this weekend and let you know how it went. I am not absolutely sure as to what is going on with these wires, but perhaps this will locate the problem.

I am guessing that this black wire is supposed to measure the volts at the battery "after" all amps being used by lights, etc. is factored in. So, if there are poor connections for the black wire, there will be resistance at the connectors, and thus the amps being used by lights/etc. will be registering too high........and thus the Regulator will be sending too many electrons to the battery. If this experiment shows that the black wire is the problem, would it be logical to just run a new black wire straight to the battery? And if so, would I run it to the positive terminal or negative terminal? I am not quite understanding the purpose of the Relay you mentioned earlier.

Thanks for your expertise.
dwight

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:30 pm

RBGERSON wrote:Now I have a question.."found your problem" does that mean the regulator is shot and needs to be replaced or you have a bad connection with the black wire that needs to be cleaned/replaced..etc.


I believe that if I determine that the black wire is not getting a good connection, then I can either rig up the Relay as Wingadmin said, or maybe run a new black wire to the battery (Im not sure yet).

But I would think that this would show the Rectifier/Regulator are OK. In my case, the readings are showing the same even after replacing the Regulator/Rect........so, I am hoping its just the black wire.

dwight

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:33 pm

Wingsconsin wrote:I think all the replys at this point are moot....I believe this bike was one lost in the fire...
Although the information may help someone else in the future....


Woe Mule, Woe Mule! When I say Woe, I mean Woeeeee! as ole Yosemite Sam says.

Wingconsin.......My friend, you are giving me some bad karma. I went running up to my garage and my 83 Wing is still sitting there, looking ok, and unburnt. Big sigh of relief!

So, that must have been another poor Wing that went up in smoke....not mine......at least not yet.

See ya.
dwight

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:17 pm

Steady ol boy.
The fine gentleman did loose his wing in a fire just recently.
This post was about his bike back from last year....However the content here is still of interest to some who have charging issues on there gl1100/gl1200's.

For anyone still interested in the content

....You can attach the black wire direct to the battery while running for TESTING ONLY.
If left there,the switched ignition would be on all the time.Like leaving the key on.
The method to bypass a poor sense circuit(low voltage) is to add a relay into the circuit.
The relay gets volts direct from the main power wire(red) and sends it to the regulator.
The existing black wire from the harness is used to operate the relay.
Here's a post where I soldered all the wires and added the relay.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12522

My bike,at 900 rpm shows 14.1 volts on the battery and peaks to 14.4.
This made it the most stable charging system I've seen on any Wing of this design.
I attribute that to soldering every connection related to the stator and regulator.

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby Wingsconsin » Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:30 pm

Sorry the mis-direction...
I am refering to Portugeezer's misfortune recently...
Fire in the garage = lost bike(s) ...
Postings are my opinions based on experience and acquired knowledge.
Your results may vary. Universal disclaimers apply.


Motorcycle Adventure Storys writen by me
http://neverlost-justexploring.blogspot.com/

dwight007fchr
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:22 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Steady ol boy.
The fine gentleman did loose his wing in a fire just recently.
This post was about his bike back from last year....However the content here is still of interest to some who have charging issues on there gl1100/gl1200's.

For anyone still interested in the content

....You can attach the black wire direct to the battery while running for TESTING ONLY.
If left there,the switched ignition would be on all the time.Like leaving the key on.
The method to bypass a poor sense circuit(low voltage) is to add a relay into the circuit.
The relay gets volts direct from the main power wire(red) and sends it to the regulator.
The existing black wire from the harness is used to operate the relay.
Here's a post where I soldered all the wires and added the relay.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12522

My bike,at 900 rpm shows 14.1 volts on the battery and peaks to 14.4.
This made it the most stable charging system I've seen on any Wing of this design.
I attribute that to soldering every connection related to the stator and regulator.


Sorry.....I was just joking around about my poor bike not getting burned up. But I agree, not a topic to joke around about.

Thanks for sending this link.....you did a very great job with the pictures and description. That will help me a ton in resolving my electrical problems.

The only thing I am still trying to understand is the concept of installing this Relay you describe. Can you better explain what this Relay will do and how it will work? I still fail to grasp why a Relay is needed and how the rascal works.

Many thanks again.
dwight

dwight007fchr
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:24 pm

Wingsconsin wrote:Sorry the mis-direction...
I am refering to Portugeezer's misfortune recently...
Fire in the garage = lost bike(s) ...



Sorry Wingsconsin....I was goofing around in the last reply. I feel bad for the guy who lost his Wing in the fire.

(And if I dont fix my electrical problem, it could happen to me too).

dwight

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby virgilmobile » Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:58 pm

The relay is a electric operated switch.
If the black wire that feeds the regulator module is compromised( low voltage) the regulator WILL try to increase the output of the regulator until it reaches it's correct voltage.
It's like this....the regulator is capable of putting out over 15 volts .To controlled that and keep the charging volts under control, it monitors the battery voltage on that black wire.
Well...If there's voltage loss on that wire....the regulator simply boosts the voltage up till it reaches the proper voltage.
My 1200 was showing exactly 14.9 volts on the battery and a voltage drop of 0.85 volts on the black wire.
When I hooked the battery direct to the black wire(test wire) the battery dropped to 14.1 volts.

So.I use the relay switch to provide direct battery power to the regulator and the original black wire to operate the relay.

dwight007fchr
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:13 am

Virgil.......Yes, I now understand what the black wire does and how poor connections can cause the Regulator to send too much power to the battery.

I still do not understand the principals of the Relay switch itself. I am guessing that the reason to use a relay is so power will not be flowing all the time, kinda like leaving the key switch on and discharging the battery. But how does the Relay know to energize the elctromagnet, which closes the points and allows the electrons to flow? Are you installing a seperate switch to turn the power on/off to the Relay?

Still scratching my head on this.

Thanks.
dwight

dwight007fchr
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:59 pm

virgilmobile wrote:Steady ol boy.
The fine gentleman did loose his wing in a fire just recently.
This post was about his bike back from last year....However the content here is still of interest to some who have charging issues on there gl1100/gl1200's.

For anyone still interested in the content

....You can attach the black wire direct to the battery while running for TESTING ONLY.
If left there,the switched ignition would be on all the time.Like leaving the key on.
The method to bypass a poor sense circuit(low voltage) is to add a relay into the circuit.
The relay gets volts direct from the main power wire(red) and sends it to the regulator.
The existing black wire from the harness is used to operate the relay.
Here's a post where I soldered all the wires and added the relay.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12522

My bike,at 900 rpm shows 14.1 volts on the battery and peaks to 14.4.
This made it the most stable charging system I've seen on any Wing of this design.
I attribute that to soldering every connection related to the stator and regulator.


Virgil and anyone willing to give some advice:

Today I pumped out that foul ethanol gas and replaced with 5 gal of non-ethanol plus Seafoam.....after reading about the problems with ethanol, that was a big priority today. I found that it was pretty simple to remove the fuel gauge sending unit and thus have a nice 3 inch dia. hole to pump the gas out from. I found that one of those tubes with a copper ball on one end which you shake and the siphon action starts...that it worked great. Removed the first 3 gallons in a minute, and then I tilted the bike as much as possible on the kickstand and use a cheap $10 hand fuel pump to get the rest. Makes a great window to also inspect the screen shield on the fuel pick-up line (on bottom of tank in one corner) and the general condition of the tank.

Now back to the electrical problem......boiling battery/overcharging. As I was burning out the ethanol in the carbs, I checked the charging volts. At idle of around 900 rpms, she was reading right at 14 volts. But as soon as I began to increase the RPMs to around 1100, the charging rate went up to about 14.8 Volts, and stayed at this level all the way past 3000 RPM (did not increase anymore). Once the RPMs went back down to 1000 or less, the reading went back to 14 volts.

I was under the impression that there should be no noticeable charging increase until around 1800 RPM, and thus the reading should be about 14 Volts to about 1800RPM, and then the meter should start seeing an increase as RPMs increase past 1800. Is this true, or should the Volts increase as soon as RPMs increase past the idle range?

The other BIG QUESTION that I have, and which I would GREATLY appreciate someone to answer is this: After running the bike for 5-10 minutes, and you cut the engine off, IS IT NORMAL TO HEAR A BUBBLING OR "POPPING" TYPE NOISES FROM THE BATTERY?
You probably cant hear just by sitting on your bike, but need to bend down right beside the battery and listen......should you hear those bubbly noises, or should it be quiet?

Another note: Right after a 15 minute drive, I cut the engine off and immediate took a Volt reading accross the "bubbly" battery terminals......I got 13 Volts. Is this normal, or should it have read only 12 volts?

Also: Right after the 15 minute drive, I put my hand on the Regulator (that has the cooling fins), and it was warm. It wasnt "hot", but definately had a good warmth to it. Is this also pretty normal?

Tomorrow I will do more testing on that black wire coming out of the Regulator.
Thanks for all help and suggestions on this.

dwight.

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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby WingAdmin » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:15 pm

Your battery is being overcharged. I highly suspect that doing the black wire test I described earlier will show it to be the problem.

As to the question about the relay earlier on: a relay is essentially a switch, operated by an electromagnet. When power is applied to the electromagnet, it pulls the switch in, connecting the second circuit. It allows one circuit to control a second circuit, with there being no actual electrical connection between the two. It also allows a very small amount of power, controlled by a tiny switch, to control a large amount of power. This is why there is a solenoid for the starter (the solenoid is just a big relay). Instead of running huge thick wires from the battery to the starter button and from there to the starter, and having a huge starter button capable of handling that amount of power, the starter button is connected to a small wire. That small wire energizes the electromagnet inside the solenoid, which pulls in the contacts that connect the battery to the starter.

dwight007fchr
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Re: A Big thank you!

Postby dwight007fchr » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:46 am

Wingadmin......Great explanation on the Relay. I plan to snip the wires and install the Relay this weekend as my testing has shown that I do have a problem here.

thanks.
dwight




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