Won't turn over


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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bigray122
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Motorcycle: 1983 GL1100I

Won't turn over

Postby bigray122 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:51 am



So at the end of last season, my 83 GL1100I started to have issues with turning over. I chalked it up to the battery going out on me. So I bought a new battery, filled and charged it. It started to crank for a little bit and now it just clicks. When I say click, there is (I suppose) a relay located just off the battery.

Is there an assumption at this point that the starter is the issue. I have the "How-to" for starter rebuild and I'm about to tackle it. However I thought it wise to at least post the symptoms here first before I get ahead of myself. Thanks in advance.



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WingAdmin
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:21 am

I would first eliminate the other points of failure:

- Ensure the battery ground cable is tight, clean and secure (at both ends)
- Connect a large battery cable to the positive terminal on the battery, and touch the other end to the electrical terminal on the starter

This will crank the starter (if it's good), so make sure the bike is in neutral, so it doesn't launch itself off the stand. If it cranks well doing this, then you know the problem is in the wiring/solenoid between the battery and the starter. If it still cranks poorly (or not at all), you know you've still got an issue with the starter.

You can do the same thing with a car battery and a set of jumper cables. Connect the negative terminal of the battery to the frame, and with the positive, touch the starter terminal. Again, make sure it's in neutral before doing this!

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guitarlos
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby guitarlos » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:24 pm

bigray122, rebuilding of the starter isnt that difficult, just dont force anything.

From what Ive read that you wrote, Id guess that it was the starter. If you are hearing a clicking noise, then the starter relay is doing its job.

Heed Wings advice, good stuff there.

bigray122
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby bigray122 » Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:18 pm

Tried the trouble shooting stuff WING mentioned and used a jump pack. I got nothing. So I took out the starter and I'm working on the rebuild as we speak. I did take all three long screws out, inside the cap (then end that goes to the engine) two washers were inside. One fat one skinny....any ideas?

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WA9FWT
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby WA9FWT » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:27 pm

bigray122 wrote:Tried the trouble shooting stuff WING mentioned and used a jump pack. I got nothing. So I took out the starter and I'm working on the rebuild as we speak. I did take all three long screws out, inside the cap (then end that goes to the engine) two washers were inside. One fat one skinny....any ideas?

Your are on your way to rebuilding it. The washers are on both ends, three if I remember. Just don't loose them.Mark your ends so you get back togather the same way you took it apart.You may need a vise to push out the gear reduction assy, and can use the vise again to put back. Just follow the pictures on this site, take your time, read all and the next time you help some one it will be a peace of cake. Make sure you inspect the wires and brushes.Have some one else that knows starters to even look at it after you get it all apart.It's not hard at all to rebuild, it's just that you haven't done it before.

You will be so pleased after you get it cleaned , or rebuilt on how it will turn over that engine like new.

WA9FWT Phil

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WA9FWT
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby WA9FWT » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:34 pm

WA9FWT wrote:
bigray122 wrote:Tried the trouble shooting stuff WING mentioned and used a jump pack. I got nothing. So I took out the starter and I'm working on the rebuild as we speak. I did take all three long screws out, inside the cap (then end that goes to the engine) two washers were inside. One fat one skinny....any ideas?

Your are on your way to rebuilding it. The washers are on both ends, three if I remember. Just don't loose them.Mark your ends so you get back togather the same way you took it apart.You may need a vise to push out the gear reduction assy, and can use the vise again to put back. Just follow the pictures on this site, take your time, read all and the next time you help some one it will be a peace of cake. Make sure you inspect the wires and brushes.Have some one else that knows starters to even look at it after you get it all apart.It's not hard at all to rebuild, it's just that you haven't done it before.

You will be so pleased after you get it cleaned , or rebuilt on how it will turn over that engine like new.

WA9FWT Phil

I should have said there are three washers on each end. And click on the " How to articals " on the top of this page and you will find every thing on just how to rebuild that starter. Phil

1ridinlow
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby 1ridinlow » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:52 pm

I hope you have better luck than me. My starter does the same thing. Replaced the battery first. Then mechanic told me to put a test light and see if im getting current to the starter. I was till i buned out the out the little box next to the starter (STARTER MAGNET). replaced it. Still didn't start. Took starter apart cleaned it greased it. It turned over right away. thought i had it then it started doing it again. ordered new starter. put it on cranked a few times. Then it started doing the same thing. read on a trouble shooting guide. That the timing being to far advanced could cause it. Im not getting into that. Im better to pay someone. with my luck.

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Re: Won't turn over

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Mar 31, 2010 11:02 am

Advanced timing can cause a larger load on the starter because the cylinders are igniting before farther before TDC - basically before the piston has reached the top of its travel, so the igniting fuel mixture is pushing the cylinder down while it is travelling up.

That said, I have never heard of this on an 1100 - not saying it can't happen, but it's not something I've ever heard of. If it is intermittent, and it's still happening with a new starter, I'd look closer at the wiring in between the battery and the solenoid, and the solenoid itself. Also look at the battery ground wire.

1ridinlow
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby 1ridinlow » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:05 pm

I put a test light on the starter pole hit the button and everytime the light lights. It startes sometimes when i hit hit hit then for no other reason it turnes over. I cleaned all the ground and positive terminals and they are making connection. The solenoid is new and the old one did the same thing.

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WA9FWT
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby WA9FWT » Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:51 pm

1ridinlow wrote:I put a test light on the starter pole hit the button and everytime the light lights. It startes sometimes when i hit hit hit then for no other reason it turnes over. I cleaned all the ground and positive terminals and they are making connection. The solenoid is new and the old one did the same thing.

Not sure whats going on here,but have you checked the valves clearance......
WA9FWT Phil

Stephen
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby Stephen » Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:02 am

I am haveing starter issues (starter is getting very hot) and was going to pull the the starter but the manual says to remove the engine. Are they nuts or do I really have to pull the engine?

bigray122
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby bigray122 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:04 am

Stephen wrote:I am having starter issues (starter is getting very hot) and was going to pull the the starter but the manual says to remove the engine. Are they nuts or do I really have to pull the engine?

Not sure what year your bike is, but I just pulled my starter and rebuilt it using this "HOW-TO" article and didn't have to pull the engine. Keep the bike in the side stand versus the center stand. Read through the rest of the posts and you'll see why. There are 2 bolts to remove the starter and a little wiggling and its out.

Ray

bigray122
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby bigray122 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:10 pm

Rebuilt, re-installed....F/N NOTHING.....

jimac
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby jimac » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:31 am

guitarlos wrote:From what Ive read that you wrote, Id guess that it was the starter. If you are hearing a clicking noise, then the starter relay is doing its job.


Just for reference, hearing the relay click doesn't mean it is working. I thought that was the case when I had a similar problem on my Aspencade. I pulled the starter, dismantled it, cleaned it and replaced it but I still just got the clicking from the starter.

By now I realised I had committed the common sin of jumping to conclusions without carrying testing. So, I measured the voltage going into and out of the relay when the starter button was pressed. Plenty of volts going in, but zero coming out even though it was clicking. As a second check I connected a jump lead from the battery positive to the starter and it spun up just as it should.

I took the relay off, cleaned up the connectors so they were nice and shiny, put it back on - and still it just clicked and didn't spin the starter.

I fitted a new relay and it spins like new again!

Before all this happened I had been having problems starting that seemed like a flat battery as the starter would be very slow. I had put a new battery on, and checked the charging but it didn't cure it. The new relay was the cure.

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lhelber
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby lhelber » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:22 pm

bigray122 wrote:Not sure what year your bike is, but I just pulled my starter and rebuilt it using this "HOW-TO" article and didn't have to pull the engine. Keep the bike in the side stand versus the center stand. Read through the rest of the posts and you'll see why. There are 2 bolts to remove the starter and a little wiggling and its out.

Ray


Why shouldn't you use the center stand? Last time I pulled my starter it was on the center stand, and it sits again on the center stand with the starter out. Am I missing something? Was I lucky the first time?

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WingAdmin
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:38 pm

lhelber wrote:Why shouldn't you use the center stand? Last time I pulled my starter it was on the center stand, and it sits again on the center stand with the starter out. Am I missing something? Was I lucky the first time?


From this thread:

You have to angle the bike to the left side while doing this job (and keep it that way until the rebuilt/new starter is back in place and bolter back up), because if ya don't...the chain can very easily fall off the gear cog and FALL down in the bottom part of the engine! Guess what then? Ya gotta pull the engine out to get the fallen chain!

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lhelber
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Re: Won't turn over

Postby lhelber » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:02 pm

WingAdmin wrote:You have to angle the bike to the left side while doing this job (and keep it that way until the rebuilt/new starter is back in place and bolter back up), because if ya don't...the chain can very easily fall off the gear cog and FALL down in the bottom part of the engine! Guess what then? Ya gotta pull the engine out to get the fallen chain!


Great, I didn't see that in the original instructions. I will have to be careful. I did hear the gear inside move but I don't think it dropped (yet). I can still feel it. I will be putting it in either tonight or tomorrow.

May I make a recommendation that you change the DIY article on rebuilding your starter. The directions state to put the bike on its center stand. It isn't until several posts latter that you see how important it is to leave it on the side stand.




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