starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot


Information and questions on GL1100 Goldwings (1980-1983)
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squirrel
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starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby squirrel » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:40 pm



had new starter motor clutch fitted .starter motor in good nick but very reluctant to start when warm/hot seems like flat battery but returns 14 volts any suggestions would be very appreciated thanks gl1100 interstate 83



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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby WingAdmin » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:19 pm

It could be a bad cell in the battery. What is the voltage reading on the battery (read at the battery terminals) when you hold the starter button down? Also check the voltage at the starter itself when you're holding the starter button down.

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby wjnfirearms » Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:37 am

You will need to have the battery load tested. Just reading the static voltage of a battery doesn't tell the whole story. Batteries can, and will, develop issues like load shorts. If one develops them, a static reading or a specific gravity reading will appear normal, but the battery will not operate under any load. Things like lights and radios will operate normally, but heavy drain items like starters will fail to work.

What occurs in this condition that somewhere in the plates, which are stacked and connected together, a short circuit develops due to a plate shifting position because of the constant vibration and shaking they are subjected to in both motorcycles and automobiles and the battery will not function to it's full capacity. This is one of the design drawbacks related to the construction of conventional lead-acid batteries.

Like most anything made with metals, the components of a starter will expand on a molecular level when hot. It takes a bit more oomph to make them operate and the battery may not be up to the job.

The battery just may be nearing the end of it's service life and is no longer up to the task. It could be as simple as that.

Also, there may be a problem developing in the starter itself for the same reason. If the battery checks out ok for loads, then this is the next place you will have to look. I've seen this happen way too many times. The old starter develops resistance that makes it more difficult to operate when hot. This is the next phase before complete starter failure. Remember, a starter is nothing more than an electric motor coupled with a Bendix drive to make the gearing turn the engine then retract and allow the engine to run on it's own. The contact brushes and armature will wear over use and age.
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squirrel
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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby squirrel » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:50 pm

thank you so much for info on how to sort this annoying issue i will test and see if it fixes it hopefully it will just be the battery

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squirrel
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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby squirrel » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:51 pm

thank you so much for info on how to sort this annoying issue i will test and see if it fixes it hopefully it will just be the battery

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voltage reading

Postby squirrel » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:54 pm

need info please . what should the voltage reading be at battery terminals (holding starter button down) also voltage reading at starter (holding button down ) thanks

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Re: voltage reading

Postby WingAdmin » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:59 pm

squirrel wrote:need info please . what should the voltage reading be at battery terminals (holding starter button down) also voltage reading at starter (holding button down ) thanks


It's going to depend on the health of your battery, but assuming the battery is fully charged, you should not see it below 10.5 volts.

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby littlebeaver » Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:34 pm

There's nothing like a good clean ground to get things operating proper, this should be one of the very first things to check...At the frame, rust devolops under the cable there and should be cleaned up if you haven't..Might be, might be be your issue but, it needs to be done regardless.. :D

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby squirrel » Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:32 pm

voltage reading at starter (holding button down )12v voltage reading at terminals holding button down >10.5v this is good ( i hope) if so where next .cleaned all wires/ connections from starter motor .no change now lost

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby jdvorchak » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:42 am

Very common problem with the old goldwings. The starter will have to be removed and rebuilt. Now at the very least take it apart and clean all of the carbon out with carb cleaner or brake cleaner then blow it dry. Be careful to note where the little washer/shims go. Usually 2 on one end of the armature and 1 on the other.

Check the brushes. If they are about 1/4 inch then need replaced.

There are 3 bent tabs on the brush plate. Clean them up with a file or sand paper so they make good contact with the body of the starter. You may even have to bend them down a little.

Clean all of the grooves on the armature between the copper parts where the brushes contact the armature. A small blade screwdriver works well. All you want to do is get the carbon out of there. Lightly clean, don't sand, those contact areas on the armature. You just want to make them clean and shiny not reshape them.

Best to have the bike on the center stand and you may have to remove the exhaust nuts from #4 cylinder to get clearance for the starter removal. Don't worry about that spline and the starter chain sprocket. It can't go anywhere inside the enging. It just hangs there.

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby jdvorchak » Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:45 am

Oh the Honda service manual says you have to remove the engine to change the starter. That is completely false. I've done many with the engine still mounted and only removed the #4 cylinder exhaust flange nuts to get enough clearance to remove the starter. It's a lot easier than it sounds.

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby squirrel » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:46 pm

thanks for all advice . had starter (english) motor checked brushes replaced when new starter clutch was installed.all leads to motor / earth all clean voltage good but it is still reluctant to start when warm/hot i was annoyed now im just confused?

jdvorchak
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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby jdvorchak » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:35 pm

I'm not sure what more to tell you but the symptoms are a weak starter. The only other thing it can be is your battery is shot.

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Re: starter motor very sluggish when engine warm/hot

Postby WINGER3 » Sun Feb 17, 2013 6:41 pm

Hi squirrel; I had the same problem with mine, when cold bike would fire right up, when hot the starter would not even try to turn over, long story short, I replaced the solenoid and it now works as new when hot.
This might not be your problem but give this a try, when hot, by pass the solenoid with a screw driver, put the blade across the two terminals of the solinoid, if the bike starts, thats your problem, also if you still have the dog bone fuse it also could be trouble, cold it works, hot it expands and has a hairline crack and won't work.
Hope this helps, good luck, keep at it and you will get there. Bob :mrgreen:


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